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Old 19th November 2016, 11:48   #40261  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Do you have a "groundtruth" to compare to in any of your tests? Maybe an old SD encoding of some anime for which a Blu-Ray is now available?
For one I do, my settings including Avisynth actually produced a fairly similar image. Anyway I have a screenshot that kinda shows what I'm talking about.

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Yes, I got this too. Normally madVR causes just some electric buzzing and not this high "coil whine" sound, which is very strange.
It depends on the type of load required by the card, generally the harder it has to work the louder the whine. Best thing you can try and do to minimize it is try overclocking or just replace the card with one that doesn't do it.

Madshi,
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191145

This is with Lanczos 3 as second upscaler, normally I'd use Jinc but w/e, this kinda helps exacerbate the issues anyway..
This is just clean NNEDI3 64 vs NGU HQ SE1, SE2 is just too blurry to be used for any real comparison.

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Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
sadly, NGU high is still to much for my rx480.
That sucks, my 960 breezes through it, doesn't use much more performance than NNEDI3 64 neurons, extra few ms render time that's it =/
I've only tested 480 > 1080 though..

Last edited by ryrynz; 19th November 2016 at 11:53.
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:48   #40262  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that was NGU only without any other renderstep using showrendertimes because everyone has different chroma scaler and stuff like that. didn't worked out...

FHD -> UHD normal rendertimes
NGU med 25-30 ms
nnedi64 32 ms
NGU high ~80-100ms
nnedi3 256 110ms
nnedi3 128 55ms


NGU med is about 10 ms faster now since i disabled showrenerstep and reset all settings. NGU high doesn't seem to care.
Still far from what you should get. I don't suppose it helps if you switch the first flush setting "after intermediate render steps" to "don't flush", does it? Does turning on/off "use D3D11 for presentation" or "use separate device for presentation" make any noticeable difference at all?
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:52   #40263  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
ok, had showrendersteps activated too.

Performance is a bit better now:

can use NGU med with chroma and luma. 30ms

choma reconstruction soft and double luma with NGU med: 23ms
choma reconstruction soft and double luma with NGU high: 59ms
As I said (multiple times now). The performance by itself doesn't matter. I need NNEDI3 comparison, otherwise there's no reference point to compare to.

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191145

This is with Lanczos 3 as second upscaler, normally I'd use Jinc but w/e, this kinda helps exacerbate the issues anyway..
This is just clean NNEDI3 64 vs NGU HQ SE1, SE2 is just too blurry to be used for any real comparison.
That looks pretty ugly. I don't really see an issue with lines being too thin here, though. What I do see is that NGU hates compression artifacts. But I suppose you'll probably get somewhat similar results when using NNEDI3 + SuperRes 4?
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:57   #40264  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Still far from what you should get. I don't suppose it helps if you switch the first flush setting "after intermediate render steps" to "don't flush", does it? Does turning on/off "use D3D11 for presentation" or "use separate device for presentation" make any noticeable difference at all?


"don't flush" no change.
"use separate device for presentation" no change
using D3D9 present in advance with FSE instead of D3D11 gave me maybe an 1 ms but NGU rendertimes are unstable anyway.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:00   #40265  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That looks pretty ugly. I don't really see an issue with lines being too thin here, though. What I do see is that NGU hates compression artifacts. But I suppose you'll probably get somewhat similar results when using NNEDI3 + SuperRes 4?
There's an O on his helmet, looking at the top line of that right in the middle you can see NGU really thinning that area far more than it should.

SuperRes4 looks even nastier but then it doesn't thin the lines, naturally.

So you could see why I'd prefer NNEDI3, after Awarpsharp etc has taken care of it I get a very nice sharp & clean image.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:05   #40266  |  Link
Sunset1982
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some quick tests:

Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NGU med: 32ms
Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NGU high: 79 ms
Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NNEDI32: 25 ms
Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NNEDI64: 36ms

Chroma @ NGU med & Luma doubling @ NGU High: 60ms

luma & Chroma doubling set to NGU high (luma) and NGU med: 78 ms


So, still NGU high is no option on rx480 yet.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:13   #40267  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
some quick tests
I wouldn't even bother with chroma doubling with this in it's current state, but that's me.. not sure if it'll make enough of a change in performance for you to run it. But like madshi said, there isn't a huge visual difference between medium and high. But I guess you're just testing rather than anything else..
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:20   #40268  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
There's an O on his helmet, looking at the top line of that right in the middle you can see NGU really thinning that area far more than it should.
I see what you mean. However, why is that part of the O gray in the source and not black, like the rest of the O? If the whole O had the same line thickness and line color in the source, NGU wouldn't "focus" some parts of the O but not others.

In order to properly upscale low-res images to hi-res in a way to get as near to the groundtruth as possible, NGU needs to decide which lines in the source were likely bloated through downscaling and were much thinner in the original hi-res image, and which lines were already thick in the hi-res source. NGU can't just thin all lines by a certain factor (as awarpsharp does). While that might produce pleasing results for very low quality anime sources with high compression artifacts, it would produce results very far from the groundtruth for high quality sources.

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
SuperRes4 looks even nastier but then it doesn't thin the lines, naturally.
That's "good" to hear. So it's really mostly caused by the bad source quality. I think what you need most of all is a good algorithm to remove compression artifacts.

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Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
some quick tests:

Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NGU med: 32ms
Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NGU high: 79 ms
Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NNEDI32: 25 ms
Chroma & Luma doubling both @ NNEDI64: 36ms

So, still NGU high is no option on rx480 yet.
Ok, so no joy with the RX480, for some weird reason.

I'll try my luck with D3D11 shaders, maybe that solves the issue.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:23   #40269  |  Link
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well maybe wait for a working RX 480 driver...

i would down grade to a better driver but i can't remember a driver that doesn't have serious issues and is working with the RX 480.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:26   #40270  |  Link
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"install.bat" hangs

@Madshi Windows1064bit latest and gtx970 here, "install.bat" hangs and won't install, never had such problems before.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:27   #40271  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I see what you mean. However, why is that part of the O gray in the source and not black, like the rest of the O? If the whole O had the same line thickness and line color in the source, NGU wouldn't "focus" some parts of the O but not others.
Yeah, I understand. NGU isn't tailored to this sort of content and NNEDI3 does particularly well here. If you ever did another version of this that went a little less towards ground truth then I'd give it a shot, this sort of content needs something a little less aggressive with it's line prediction.

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That's "good" to hear. So it's really mostly caused by the bad source quality. I think what you need most of all is a good algorithm to remove compression artifacts.
That would certainly help, I could take care of this in my script but that wouldn't solve my main contention with this.
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Old 19th November 2016, 12:45   #40272  |  Link
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Here's a test build for those of you who still have problems with keyboard shortcuts and NGU not working:

http://madshi.net/madVR91c.rar

Installation instructions:

1) Make sure you're in release mode.
2) Overwrite the files.
3) Activate debug mode.
4) Create a short log file and upload it somewhere for me to look at (don't attach to this forum).
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Old 19th November 2016, 13:04   #40273  |  Link
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I'll try my luck with D3D11 shaders, maybe that solves the issue.
I'm ready to do some tests. Let me know if I can do some testing for you.


Quote:
well maybe wait for a working RX 480 driver...

i would down grade to a better driver but i can't remember a driver that doesn't have serious issues and is working with the RX 480.
They bring new beta drivers every week atm, but sadly just optimized for new games instead of bringing a bug free fro multimedia use.
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Old 19th November 2016, 13:29   #40274  |  Link
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Originally Posted by AndreaMG View Post
@Madshi Windows1064bit latest and gtx970 here, "install.bat" hangs and won't install, never had such problems before.
same here
win10 14393 64-bit
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Old 19th November 2016, 13:38   #40275  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Here's a test build for those of you who still have problems with keyboard shortcuts and NGU not working:

http://madshi.net/madVR91c.rar

Installation instructions:

1) Make sure you're in release mode.
2) Overwrite the files.
3) Activate debug mode.
4) Create a short log file and upload it somewhere for me to look at (don't attach to this forum).
I don't have time right now to try this, but 0.91b doesn't work for me either (keyboard shortcut). 0.90.24 doesn't have this issue. (Optimus system.)

Thanks for the new version!
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Old 19th November 2016, 13:44   #40276  |  Link
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Performance:
R9 GPU
chroma and image doubling NGU High: 20s
chroma and image doubling NNedi 64: 22s
I did a reset of the Settings and the NGU High render time lowered to 18s with the same Settings as before. Dont know why, but the IQ look better now as before IMO.
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Old 19th November 2016, 13:54   #40277  |  Link
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I don't have time right now to try this, but 0.91b doesn't work for me either (keyboard shortcut).
It's not supposed to work. It's supposed to create a log file with information that might help me figure out why it's not working...
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Old 19th November 2016, 14:01   #40278  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
3) NGU is currently available for both doubling and chroma upscaling. The chroma upscaling algo does currently not make use of the luma channel. I plan to try adding that to a future NGU version, but that will take serious development time, so don't expect it too soon.
what does this mean specifically when watching a (non animated) movie? that the algorithm only makes use of half of the picture or picture information so to say? that it is incomplete atm?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the install and unistall batch file of that new version dont work for me. when I execute it nothing happens e.g. the black cmd window remains opened without anything happening (admin rights activated). I do have an optimus card.

is there any other way to install this manually? I did regsvr32 madvr.ax and same with madvr64.ax, but in mpc-hc madvr remains not installed in fact. its working fine with 0.90.24 though.
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Old 19th November 2016, 14:21   #40279  |  Link
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what does this mean specifically when watching a (non animated) movie? that the algorithm only makes use of half of the picture or picture information so to say? that it is incomplete atm?
Some chroma upscaling algorithms like Bilateral and Reconstruction use the luma channel, which has twice the horizontal and vertical resolution, to guide the way they upscale the chroma channel. This can be very helpful when there's a lot of overlap between the chroma and the luma (e.g. if a change in color is usually accompanied by a change in brightness), but it can also lead to artifacts where they don't match well enough. NGU for chroma upscaling doesn't make use of this technique yet.
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Old 19th November 2016, 14:21   #40280  |  Link
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I will try NGU tonight... i don't have time now for tweaking so I want know, you guys suggest don t use any sharpener? And enhance details ?


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