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Old 5th March 2014, 15:47   #24301  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper93 View Post
FIGUREOUTYOURSELF/DONTBELAZY

You haven't even bother to test it... You can't do HIGH/LOW and others...

It's a matter of taste. The same with scaling. If there were "best" option madshi wouldn't have include those settings.

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Chill out a little dude.
I am NOT asking for what is better. I am specifically asking Madshi what he prefers when playing 1080p Blu-Ray content.
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:48   #24302  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Jinc will look better (smoother) on perfect diagonals only, on anything else it looks just like Lanczos.
This post is IMO only.
Interesting
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Old 5th March 2014, 16:16   #24303  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
I wonder if it's possible for Quicksync to do deinterlacing, because if I give the job to MadVR it would need twice the rendering power since it doubles the frames per second.
Whatever you use for deinterlacing, it should always double the number of frames.
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Old 5th March 2014, 16:44   #24304  |  Link
iSunrise
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Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
Chill out a little dude.
I am NOT asking for what is better. I am specifically asking Madshi what he prefers when playing 1080p Blu-Ray content.
He has a point, though, and a very good one. Why exactly would that help you, when madshi doesnīt have access to a 4K projector? And even if he did, he probably doesnīt have the same model you do, which also does make a difference.

Why donīt you just test it yourself, instead of posting 20 posts asking everyone about their respective opinions when everyone of us has a completely different setup than you do. Everyone has a different taste, too, which you can see when you actually followed our dithering discussion. I see that with you a lot. If a new build and feature comes out, you always ask for "the best" settings, but you never actually provide an opinion yourself. Itīs like you donīt even exist and just copy blindly what other users prefer, instead of making up your own mind about it. I totally donīt get that at all. Especially since your high-end 4K projector should make some differences really obvious and make the differences clearly visible.

Personally, on a 4K device, NNEDI3 luma doubling should always be enabled in your case, NNEDI3 chroma upscaling always second. And Iīm not even talking about NNEDI3 chroma doubling, because most of us donīt have a 4K device. Left are Lanczos, which is the sharpest with side-effects, while Jinc is sometimes more accurate, also with side-effects, so itīs all a matter of preference and the content that you feed madVR.

Last edited by iSunrise; 5th March 2014 at 17:12.
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Old 5th March 2014, 17:46   #24305  |  Link
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Hi guys (and maybe gals, it's hard to tell)... I have a question regarding gamma correction and calibration settings. I have this info from Monitor Asset Manager's Real-time EDID:

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.50
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.340
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.690
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.138 - By 0.038
White point (default).... Wx 0.282 - Wy 0.297
Additional descriptors... None

I was wondering if any of this info can or should be used in the device calibration settings for gamma.... and if so, what should be the corresponding gamma correction settings?

I have tinkered with a calibration setting of pure power curve of 2.5 gamma and pure power curve 2.35 in the gamma correction... but I wasn't happy with the results. I have also tried other combos, and currently have both set at disabled (again not happy with the results). I don't have access to calibration gear, but thought maybe I could get better results if I understood what my TV's gamma is (pure pc, bt.709, etc. etc.) and what the target should be for gamma correction.

I have included screen shots of the two settings in question if there is any confusion about what I am talking about





Thanks in advance,

QB
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Old 5th March 2014, 18:22   #24306  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltron View Post
I really would love to use a sharpen filter but I use JRiver and can't find a way to do it. Madshi did mention one or twice that he could add a means to include a filter that wouldn't be too difficult to do. I can only hope.
Maybe sooner or later, but not in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiandow View Post
Unfortunately it doesn't seem that it will fix the 'blinking' problem and the more I think about that the less sense it seems to make. I can't understand why it seems to work regardless of smooth motion, but only when the frame rate doesn't match the display frame rate.
I'm not 100% sure about the exact cause of the blinking problem, either. I *think* it's just the irregular interval at which the dithering pattern changes, but I'm not totally sure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Whatever you use for deinterlacing, it should always double the number of frames.
Exactly. Unless we're talking film content, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
Hi guys (and maybe gals, it's hard to tell)... I have a question regarding gamma correction and calibration settings.
Maybe someone else can help out. This is not my area of expertise.
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Old 5th March 2014, 18:44   #24307  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.87.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* error diffusion now uses DirectCompute (DX11 GPU needed) instead of OpenCL
* added fast and reasonably high quality "ordered dithering" algorithm
* added "rendering\dithering" settings page with many new options
* new default dithering is now ordered dithering instead of random dithering
* madTPG now always uses monochromatic ordered dithering
* fixed: #107: XySubFilter: reducing CPU queue size during playback -> crash
* fixed: #112: 120fps clip resulted in 23Hz being selected instead of 60Hz
* fixed: #119: installation resulted in "might not have installed correctly"
* fixed: #123: XySubFilter: Nearest Neighbor/Bilinear distorted subtitles
* fixed: #125: forced film mode with unsupported FOURCCs: graphical corruption
* fixed: #133: XySubFilter: opaque black box when smooth motion was enabled
* fixed: #136: when playback is stopped, madVR now always turns the video off
* fixed: #137: Nearest Neighbor/Bilinear has problems with post-resize shaders
* fixed: #138: smooth motion FRC flickered when using Nearest Neighbor
* fixed: #145: DCI-P3 was using an incorrect white point
* fixed: #155: screeshots sometimes had an added black border
* fixed: #159: speciying DCI-P3 as the calibrated gamut -> green screen
* fixed: #160: corruption with uncompressed 4096x2304 v210 in AVI
* fixed: #161: YUV 4:4:4 videos with weird resolutions crashed madVR
* fixed: #165: overlay mode restricted madVR to single player window
* fixed: #167: dithering produced dithering noise on pure black areas
* fixed: #169: dithering produced dithering noise on pure white areas
* fixed: #170: Overlay mode sometimes unnecessarily cleared GPU gamma ramps
* fixed: Overlay mode applied 3dlut and gamma ramps in wrong order
* fixed: crash reporting didn't catch exceptions in private threads, anymore
* fixed: crash when using XySubFilter with small GPU queue size
* fixed: DVD navigator was not released properly by madVR
* fixed: Run/Seek hooks also affected secondary DirectShow graphs
* fixed: profile key shortcuts only worked for "scaling" profiles
* fixed: full range YCbCr input produced slightly incorrect colors
* reduced Overlay mode graphical corruption when resizing media player
* exclusive -> windowed switch now shows a black frame instead of an old one
* removed XySubFilter auto-loading functionality, it's now XySubFilter's job
* disabled resolution based DCI-P3 auto detection
* changed default luma doubling value to 32 neurons
* display bitdepth can be be set to as low as 3bit (just for testing)
As you can see, this build contains a LOT of bugfixes. There are still some bugfixes left to do (see bug tracker), but I wanted to release a new official build with the new dithering algorithms now. There'll probably be a v0.87.6 in the near future with some more bugfixes.

Please note that there's also a new XySubFilter build which I recommend to use. See here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168282
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Old 5th March 2014, 19:11   #24308  |  Link
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Congratulations on dithering options design. You made it comprehensible for casual users.
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Old 5th March 2014, 19:36   #24309  |  Link
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Thank You !!!

v0.87.5 is a big step up in madVR's image quality.

Considering we only had random dithering which is clearly visible even in 8bit,
compared to any of the new options which are barely visible to invisible.




P.S
Bug #167 "dithering produced dithering noise on pure black areas" still exists.
This bug was only apparent when 3DLUT or yCMS where active, unlike the dithered Whites (even without 3DLUT) with ATI card which is a different (real) bug altogether.

@6233638
Might I add that its not actually a bug, its a side effect of the calibration (0.000015746 instead or pure 0.0000000000 for black).
It can be solved by moving the blacks to -1 in madVR.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 5th March 2014 at 19:51.
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Old 5th March 2014, 19:52   #24310  |  Link
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Wow, looks like a lot of bug fixes in this build.

Does this build sync dithering to the video framerate now to prevent flickering? I didn't see it mentioned in the release notes.

I know that you're not taking feature requests, but would it be possible to have a keyboard shortcut toggle "disable GPU gamma ramps" ?
Now that I can use the feature to bypass the display LUT (or not) in overlay mode, it would be quite useful to have.
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Old 5th March 2014, 19:52   #24311  |  Link
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madshi
Is DC done by dx9<->dx10/11 interop? If so, how high overhead is?
Sorry, if it has already been answered.
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Old 5th March 2014, 19:56   #24312  |  Link
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thanks madshi
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:01   #24313  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashmozzg View Post
madshi
Is DC done by dx9<->dx10/11 interop? If so, how high overhead is?
Sorry, if it has already been answered.
I don't think it is, considering DC options require a DX11 card.
When running on older cards, it just silently falls back to ordered dither, afaik.
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:13   #24314  |  Link
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Madshi, can i know why do you prefer 7xxx series over the new series?

THX-UltraII can i know how much NNedi32 chroma upscaling neurons can you set, without dropped frames, with your r8? And with image doubling? Naturally i am talking about bluray 1080 24p material. Thank you
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:15   #24315  |  Link
Gagorian
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Originally Posted by annovif View Post
Madshi, can i know why do you prefer 7xxx series over the new series?

THX-UltraII can i know how much NNedi32 chroma upscaling neurons can you set, without dropped frames, with your r8? And with image doubling? Naturally i am talking about bluray 1080 24p material. Thank you
The 'new' cards i.e. r7 250x, r7 260(x), r7 265, r9 270(x) and r9 280(x) are rebranded 7xxx series GPU's.

Personally I see the r9 270 as the sweet spot for HTPC usage, but opinions might differ. The r9 270 can easily run Jinc3 AR for scaling, Error Diffusion and Debanding with maximum quality settings. If you want NNEDI32 doubling combined with those, you might need a more powerful GPU (unless madshi/AMD manages to reduce OpenCL interop costs ).

Last edited by Gagorian; 5th March 2014 at 20:25.
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:21   #24316  |  Link
flashmozzg
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Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
I don't think it is, considering DC options require a DX11 card.
When running on older cards, it just silently falls back to ordered dither, afaik.
Well, it just that madvr is dx9 and for openCL dx9 interop was used.
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:25   #24317  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not 100% sure about the exact cause of the blinking problem, either. I *think* it's just the irregular interval at which the dithering pattern changes, but I'm not totally sure...
I just succeeded in recreating the 'blinking' effect by just replacing the video with noise. As far as I can tell it is a limitation of the screen. In my case I suspect my screen takes too long to get to full brightness so the frame that is shown longer gets brighter. In theory this shouldn't happen with screens with particularly low latency, like projectors or CRTs. Smooth motion should also help, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:33   #24318  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
This question is asked a lot, and there's no simple answer. It all depends on which algorithms you want to use, which input/output resolutions need to be supported and which movie framerate and display refresh rate etc. Just as an example: If you need support for 60p, the GPU has to be almost 2.5x as fast as it would have to be if you limited yourself to 24p. So that shows clearly how much all of this depends on your exact requirements.

AMD and NVidia have their own set of advantages and disadvantages, so I can't give a clear recommendation for either one, either. If you decide to get something from AMD, you should definitely get a 7xxx series GPU.
well the new projector is a Sony VPL-VW500ES 4k projector.. so for me to get the best picture.. what card should i use?

would i still get a 7xxx or should i get a 280x/290/290x?

most source material is 1080p24 so i honest don't know what i should buy.. i will spend alot of time testing everything out later on but my knowledge around it all is very limited so i will be back i will get it ISF calibrated and i will probably use some filters and pre/post processing...
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Old 5th March 2014, 21:09   #24319  |  Link
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Kinda strange, it seems like randomly that 120fps file huhn posted wants to playback @ double speed in FSE + Smooth Motion (CTRL+E a few times in FSE with MPC-HC), but only when using a 60hz refresh rate. Probably the same thing causing iSunrise's issue.
i can reproduce this with 87.5 and older version.
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Old 5th March 2014, 21:23   #24320  |  Link
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I will test a R9 290x later to see what's the top of the line AMD card can do with MadVR.

Meanwhile can someone with Titan/Titan Black/780Ti put up some numbers too?
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