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13th May 2015, 19:27 | #29881 | Link | |
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but a movie without a dark scene or gradations is unlikely. even with really high bit deep there could be banding in a BD when dithering isn't used. |
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13th May 2015, 19:33 | #29882 | Link | |
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If such a perfect source would exist, then dithering also wouldn't add noise, since dithering, by definition and design, is only used to spread the rounding error to multiple pixels, instead of accumulating it all in one. If there wouldn't be a rounding error, there would be no "noise". At the end of the day, movies are all going to be in YUV, and YUV needs to be converted to RGB. This conversion process (if done right) results in floating point values, which need to be converted to 8-bit (or recently, 10-bit) on output. If you don't use dithering, you will effectively cut off data. Thats also were your analogy goes wrong, dithering isn't about hiding flaws, its about preserving data when converting to a lower bitdepth (ie. from 16/32-bit float, to 8/10-bit integer for output) Of course you are free to use whatever settings you like, but please don't spread them as advice.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 13th May 2015 at 19:38. |
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13th May 2015, 19:35 | #29883 | Link |
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I'm a bit confused when you ask "what mode my PC is", where should I look that? Control panel just said (roughly) 1080 native, 60Hz.
Anyways I had a look and I don't find any video that turns my TV to 1080p60 mode, it stays always in PC mode which is fine and bad at the same time... I would expect a bit more consistency for these things (I should be able to treat 60fps sources as every other non-PC source, TV settings wise). 1080p59 is also defaulting to PC mode. Then I played a 50fps video and screen turned to 50p mode, so here the story does apply. Anyways I removed the 1080p50 entry and it defaulted to 1080p60 now seemingly and oddly enough "PC mode" (I still think passthrough should be a better idea?). I will report back when I find something strange. Sorry to disturb. I'm still curious on why I can't seem to enable chroma NNEDI doubling. I even tried with "always - if upscaling is needed", only luma gets upscaled with nnedi. |
13th May 2015, 19:36 | #29884 | Link |
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My playback is fine (no dropped frames, no glitches).
Anyway, just for info .. when I watch movie 24.000 and refresh rate fix is active, render queue and present queue are low (render queue 3-5/8 and present queue 2-3/8. Average stats present 31.00 ms which is abnormally high, usually 0.05 ms.) When I watch movie 23.976 and refresh rate fix is not active, everything is fine with numbers (render queue 7-8/8 and present queue 6-7/8. Average stats present is 0.05 ms.) Hope this help, Regards
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13th May 2015, 19:38 | #29885 | Link | |
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13th May 2015, 20:02 | #29890 | Link | ||
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I am not at all sure how one could conclude dithering is bad when watching 1-bit output. Watching 1-bit output without dithering makes it hard to see what is going on. Almost all detail is lost. Turn off "change dither for every frame" if you want a more stable image, DO NOT turn of dithering entirely. Ordered dithering has very low apparent noise even at only 4-bit (256 colors), especially with "change dither for every frame" off. Quote:
Turning off "change dither for every frame" trades more visible dither patters for less apparent dither noise.
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13th May 2015, 20:02 | #29891 | Link | |
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Same happens to me |
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13th May 2015, 20:08 | #29893 | Link | |
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Of course in real material the difference is going to be negligible because of changes in what's being displayed, and noise in the source material subtly changing the dithering decisions each frame. Still, if you combine temporal dithering with something like smooth motion so that it changes for every screen refresh, it makes it much more effective (which is why I would prefer dithering to be tied to vsync rather than the video frame rate - but I always use smooth motion anyway, so it's a moot point).
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Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version) Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 13th May 2015 at 20:17. |
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13th May 2015, 20:15 | #29894 | Link | ||
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and because there is no second chroma line image doubling is doing this. Quote:
please don't compare it to frame interpolation like SVP or the interpolation from TVs. but usually it is not needed on a TV anyway. |
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13th May 2015, 20:24 | #29895 | Link | |
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chroma > mitchell > nnedi (double) > resizer (for up or downscale to 1080) has the behavior changed in last version? edit: btw I don't think what you say is right, I disabled chroma nnedi and I get the same OSD output. Last edited by Dogway; 13th May 2015 at 20:28. |
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13th May 2015, 20:32 | #29896 | Link | |
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13th May 2015, 20:37 | #29897 | Link |
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jumping frames on pause
I noticed that too (when pausing videos), but wasn't sure how to word it. The best description I could think of at the time was it jumping back and forth between frames during pause. I've found that if you change scalers (up or down) it stops it and stabilizes the picture, so it may be a combination of D3D11 and scaler coding/changes.
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13th May 2015, 20:44 | #29898 | Link | |
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The way it changes is random - so it's random temporal dithering. It might be possible to make it ordered (imagine 3D matrix for ordered dithering, which is "good" in all dimensions). Ordered dithering works on probability too, the only difference from random is that it uses special "good" matrix. "Good" means that peaks and valleys are as far from each other as possible. Last edited by vivan; 13th May 2015 at 20:53. |
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13th May 2015, 20:52 | #29899 | Link | |
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On my system with v0.87.21 if I disable chroma doubling I get a second chroma line below luma that says chroma is being upscaled with what is set in 'image upscaling' (and 'image' changes to 'luma'). I don't get the same OSD output if I disable chroma doubling.
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13th May 2015, 20:53 | #29900 | Link | |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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