madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) - Page 1806

James Freeman · 13th February 2016, 20:01

For some reason only the 960 has the hardware to decode x265/HEVC, the 970 or 980 do not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia...#Feature_Set_F

You should wait for next gen (Pascal) if you're a gamer and don't buy the 960.

Patrik G · 13th February 2016, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Freeman

For some reason only the 960 has the hardware to decode x265/HEVC, the 970 or 980 do not.

that was bad.
but ok i dont play any games so i guess a 960 would do the job for movies only.

Edit: i probably wait for the nextgen Nvidia cards.
its a huge dip in performance from a 780 with the 960s.
it feels like an downgrade.

Stereodude · 13th February 2016, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Freeman

The only GPU of current gen that able to decode HEVC is Nvidia GTX960, and yes, the CPU and GPU remain around 0% because the VPU completely takes the full load.

That's very misleading unless you add the 10-bit caveat to it. Intel has full HEVC decoding for 8-bit in Skylake and some of the low power solutions like Braswell too.

James Freeman · 13th February 2016, 20:15

Yes, thanks for the correction Stereodude.
Intentions are all good.

Still, if I were to build a new HTPC with Nvidia GPU, I'd wait for Pascal which should begin to appear on Q3 of 2016.

iSeries · 13th February 2016, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Freeman

The only GPU of current gen that able to decode HEVC is Nvidia GTX960

Plus the GTX950.

macycat · 13th February 2016, 21:47

I wrote this a while back:

Quote:

Originally Posted by macycat

It looks like I found a problem created between madVR v0.89.12 and v0.89.13. It took some time to track this down since I hadn't upgraded in quite a long time.

The problem occurs with 1080i59 content (recorded with HDPVR), but does not seem to be a problem with 1080p23 content. While playing a 1080i59 video file, if I double click on another 1080i59 video file to play it in the same video player window, I get a blank screen with sound from the new video. I also previously was able to drag the video player window from one screen to another screen with no problems (just a minor pause in playback), but that now usually gives a blank screen with audio playing with an occasional DirectX fails to render crash.

MPC-HC 1.7.10 (64-bit)
LAV Filters 0.67.0
madVR 0.89.12 - ok
madVR 0.89.13 - fail

Windows 7 64-bit
NVIDIA GTX 670 video card

madVR settings:
D3D9 overlay
NV12, 8 bit, 4:2:0
movie 29.970 fps (says source filter)
movie 1920x1080, 16:9
touch window from outside
chroma > Jinc AR
image < Lanczos3 AR
vsync 16.68ms, frame 16.68ms
matrix BT.709 (says upstream)
primaries BT.709 (says upstream)
limited range (says upstream)
deinterlacing on (settings)
...

I haven't updated for quite a while, but with all the great work being done, I thought I would give the 3D playback a try. That is when I noticed the problem described above.

Thanks for all the great features and hard work.

Then v0.90.9 was released:

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.90.9 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

* slightly improved SSIM quality (even stronger detail reconstruction)
* removed SSimDetailed option, now SSimClean is always used
* removed "use 1.6 gamma instead of 2.2" option
* fixed: moving media player to another monitor resulted in paused playback
* fixed: rendering eventually left some D3D interfaces open
* fixed: madVR shutdown memory leak
* fixed: some problems with live TV (detected by DVBViewer devs)
* fixed: 1080p23 was forced even when not using "auto" (frame packing)

Not sure which one of these fixed my problem, but THANKS!

jkauff · 13th February 2016, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by scollaco

Yes actually way more than other countries. German studios will go out of their way to even do a crap post conversion for some crap horror movie and sell it in 3D. Sadly, this could be also why people are disliking 3D.

In case you didn't know, nevcariel lives in Germany.

Devrim · 13th February 2016, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.90.9 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

* fixed: moving media player to another monitor resulted in paused playback

Thanks! :3

KoD · 13th February 2016, 22:21

Hi madshi, it looks like vobsub rendering got broken again, but this time different than the last time. It's affecting 1920x1080 vobsubs made from BluRay sups, or the sups themselves. Small DVD vobsubs don't have this issue. The subtitles are visible when the player is in full screen mode on a normal 1080p screen, but they don't show up when the player is not in full screen mode (btw, I am not speaking about full screen exclusive mode). My guess is that the subs are not downscaled when the video is downscaled. EVR custom presenter renderer in MPC-HC in the same scenario works fine.

I put here a sub/idx sample, and my settings.bin file. You can use the subs with any media file, as long as it's longer than 5 minutes (the first spoken line starts ~ 5 minutes, as can be seen in the idx file).

Later edit: it happens the same when playing m2ts files from a BluRay, so it's not only vobsubs, but sups as well.

13th February 2016, 22:50

Could someone compile a package of examples with visual differences between different madVR settings, including most chroma upscaling, image upscaling, image downscaling, image doubling + quadrupling, SuperRes, ER Diffusion and a ton of other settings on different kind of content, such as HQ 1080p, MQ 1080p, LQ 1080p, same for 720p and then for 4xxp... It would be a pretty comprehensive and LARGE package of examples, but shouldn't there be one just like that?

On what page should I start looking for SSIM downscaling examples to see difference between Catmull-Rom and SSIM?

I use these settings for SD and HD content (480p, 720p and 1080p) on my 1080p display with MPC-HC + LAV Filters (DXVA 2 Copy-Back Hardware Acceleration):
- 3DLUT
- 10bit 0-255 output on 12bit output display
- Artifact Removal - Low (top setting), Medium (bottom setting), but depends on content quality
- Chroma Upscaling - NNEDI3 64n + SuperRes (Strength 3)
- Image Downscaling - Catmull-Rom + AR + LL
- Image Doubling and Quadrupling (Luma only) set to Always
- Image Upscaling - Jink + AR
- Upscaling Refinement - SuperRes 3
- Dithering - Error Diffusion Type 2 + Colored Noise and Change Dither every frame
- D3D11 Exclusive Mode (3 frames in advance)
- Everything disabled in Trade Quality for Performance

These are obviously GPU-hungry settings for 480p, 720p, and 1080p content even for my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz and GTX 980 @ 1550Mhz. What settings do you recommend to try for:
1. 480p, 720p, and 1080p content upscaled to 4K on 4K display?
2. 4K content @ 4K on 4K display?

Obviously I want the best image quality and no lost or dropped frames and no presentation glitches.

Patrik G · 14th February 2016, 00:19

madvr crashes with MPC-HC 64bit version but not with 32bit
why is that?

and only when i enter fullscreen not in window mode

crash report

1807 pages of issues and you still isnt able to have a fully working video renderer lol

JarrettH · 14th February 2016, 01:08

Is SSIM okay to use on a doubled image (super-xbr)? I'm a little lost as to recommendations lately. I use super-xbr 100 doubling + catmull AR + LL. I'd like to improve on that.

I could do Jinc + AR and SR3 or super-xbr 100 + SSIM downscaling. Would either be more beneficial than what I'm running now? I'm concerned that going back to Jinc would cause more aliased lines, which super-xbr doubling helped with.

baii · 14th February 2016, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

Could someone compile a package of examples with visual differences between different madVR settings, including most chroma upscaling, image upscaling, image downscaling, image doubling + quadrupling, SuperRes, ER Diffusion and a ton of other settings on different kind of content, such as HQ 1080p, MQ 1080p, LQ 1080p, same for 720p and then for 4xxp... It would be a pretty comprehensive and LARGE package of examples, but shouldn't there be one just like that?

On what page should I start looking for SSIM downscaling examples to see difference between Catmull-Rom and SSIM?

I use these settings for SD and HD content (480p, 720p and 1080p) on my 1080p display with MPC-HC + LAV Filters (DXVA 2 Copy-Back Hardware Acceleration):
- 3DLUT
- 10bit 0-255 output on 12bit output display
- Artifact Removal - Low (top setting), Medium (bottom setting), but depends on content quality
- Chroma Upscaling - NNEDI3 64n + SuperRes (Strength 3)
- Image Downscaling - Catmull-Rom + AR + LL
- Image Doubling and Quadrupling (Luma only) set to Always
- Image Upscaling - Jink + AR
- Upscaling Refinement - SuperRes 3
- Dithering - Error Diffusion Type 2 + Colored Noise and Change Dither every frame
- D3D11 Exclusive Mode (3 frames in advance)
- Everything disabled in Trade Quality for Performance

These are obviously GPU-hungry settings for 480p, 720p, and 1080p content even for my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz and GTX 980 @ 1550Mhz. What settings do you recommend to try for:
1. 480p, 720p, and 1080p content upscaled to 4K on 4K display?
2. 4K content @ 4K on 4K display?

Obviously I want the best image quality and no lost or dropped frames and no presentation glitches.

The most expensive transformation right now with current popular contents should be 1080p upscale to 4k. For 4k content, unless you go crazy on nnedi3 chroma or image enhancement, it shouldn't be that much slower than 1080p to 1080p.

For 1080p24 to 4k, with current best GPU, usually it is nnedi3 32/64 + SR + maybe one upscaling refinement, if you opt for jinc or sxbr, you can usually play with all the toys freely like error diffusion, expensive chroma or multiple refinement.

Sent from my 306SH

Ver Greeneyes · 14th February 2016, 01:34

Wanted to see how the latest version of SSIM compares to Catmull-Rom, which I was using before. Comparison. This is downscaling from 1080p to 720p, so not a very big factor and one I actually use a fair bit (both Catmull-Rom and SSIM set to use LL and AR). I have to say I'm impressed, it brings out a lot more detail!

hu1kamania · 14th February 2016, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

What happens if you try different "deinterlacing modes" in LAV? E.g. try "agressive" or something. Another test would be to try different deinterlacing settings in the NVidia GPU control panel. In any case, if EVR is showing the same problems that it's not really madVR specific, and there might not be much I can do about it.

Congrats on 0.90.9!

The sample, taken from live TV, appears to be a mixed content scenario. Some parts are telecined (Film mode is sublime in these instances). The other part is full 60i and will skip when set to Film mode because of the difference in refresh rate.

In MadVR I'll generally opt for Video mode, or Auto when viewing Mixed Content. In this instance, DXVA results in shimmering/aliasing and repeated frames during telecined portions of the video. Usually this is during commercials, but I've seen it happen when graphics appear during the primary broadcast!

Setting LAV "Deinterlacing Mode" to Auto, Aggressive, or Force results in visual shimmering and repeated frames. Setting LAV "Deinterlacing Mode" to Disabled alleviates much of the shimmering and results in 0 repeated frames.

Toggling "Use inverse telecine" in the Nvidia driver doesn't seem to make a difference, I thought this was for CUVID? I'm unaware of any other deinterlace settings in the Nvidia control panel. If anyone knows of another way to manipulate deinterlacing in the control panel or Nvidia Inspector, I'm all ears!

If I disable deinterlacing in MadVR and opt for a software method in LAV, I get double the repeated frames (still zero dropped frames) but shimmering is significantly reduced. Thus my preferred method for watching TV is to disable deinterlacing in MadVR and use one of the software methods from LAV Filters.

I'm unsure if this is an Nvidia driver issue, typical DXVA behavior, misconfiguration on my part, or if there is anything that can be done to manipulate DXVA on your end.

YxP · 14th February 2016, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

Could someone compile a package of examples

Maybe you could? Wait for 1.0 though. Sounds like a big job and possibly for nothing when settings could change overnight

har3inger · 14th February 2016, 02:19

Oddly enough, latest build trips smartscreen for madhtctrl.exe. It never did before. I ignored/exception'd it and it works as expected.

14th February 2016, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes

Wanted to see how the latest version of SSIM compares to Catmull-Rom, which I was using before. Comparison. This is downscaling from 1080p to 720p, so not a very big factor and one I actually use a fair bit (both Catmull-Rom and SSIM set to use LL and AR). I have to say I'm impressed, it brings out a lot more detail!

The overall conclusion is that Cat-Rom is better when downscaled to very low SD resolutions and SSIM is better in other cases is what my brief research suggests... When I watch 720p or even 480p content, I often use Luma Image Doubling and Quadrupling (NNEDI32 for both and both set to Always) on my 1080p display. That means that 720p content gets upscaled to 1440p if Doubling is used and to 2880p when Quadrupling is used. Then the image gets downscaled back to 1080p using Cat-Rom or SSIM, correct? In such cases, what would look better for film content - Cat-Rom or SSIM? Should SSIM be used with AR + LL like Cat-Rom for the best quality?

har3inger · 14th February 2016, 02:51

Okay, I managed to find a good example of a scene where SuperRes introduces a bunch of aliasing. Or rather, what I should requalify as "blobbiness". It's not really aliasing at all, but an interruption in smooth lines.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161795

Key areas of note, although the problem is very obvious in almost all parts of the screenshot:
The AOL billboard letters. Also the AOL man's border becomes non-uniform and rings a bit.
All the specular reflections off the cars, especially the thinly shaped ones. They become lumpy/rough. I don't really know how to better describe it.
The Boston Globe sign. Uniform white/grey becomes irregularly blobby white/grey.
Brown wooden fence around the parking lot. The whole thing becomes granular with SuperRes.

The source is not the best, admittedly, and could be entirely responsible for the lumpy/blobby/granular image that superres produces. This is with linear light off, but with it checked on, the strange lumpy quality remains the same.

FreeFall · 14th February 2016, 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

I've found a bug in 0.89.13, so I hope this will be fixed in the next build. If not, please let me know.

Thanks madshi the new build fixed the problem.

Cheers.

13th February 2016, 20:01	#36101 \| Link
James Freeman Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 919	For some reason only the 960 has the hardware to decode x265/HEVC, the 970 or 980 do not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia...#Feature_Set_F You should wait for next gen (Pascal) if you're a gamer and don't buy the 960. __________________ System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 13th February 2016 at 20:07.

13th February 2016, 20:15	#36104 \| Link
James Freeman Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 919	Yes, thanks for the correction Stereodude. Intentions are all good. Still, if I were to build a new HTPC with Nvidia GPU, I'd wait for Pascal which should begin to appear on Q3 of 2016. __________________ System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.

13th February 2016, 22:21	#36109 \| Link
KoD Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 567	Hi madshi, it looks like vobsub rendering got broken again, but this time different than the last time. It's affecting 1920x1080 vobsubs made from BluRay sups, or the sups themselves. Small DVD vobsubs don't have this issue. The subtitles are visible when the player is in full screen mode on a normal 1080p screen, but they don't show up when the player is not in full screen mode (btw, I am not speaking about full screen exclusive mode). My guess is that the subs are not downscaled when the video is downscaled. EVR custom presenter renderer in MPC-HC in the same scenario works fine. I put here a sub/idx sample, and my settings.bin file. You can use the subs with any media file, as long as it's longer than 5 minutes (the first spoken line starts ~ 5 minutes, as can be seen in the idx file). Later edit: it happens the same when playing m2ts files from a BluRay, so it's not only vobsubs, but sups as well. Last edited by KoD; 14th February 2016 at 00:36. Reason: added note on playing BluRay content directly, and removed note on vobsubs roughness as it was not visible on original sups

13th February 2016, 22:50	#36110 \| Link
XMonarchY Guest Posts: n/a	Could someone compile a package of examples with visual differences between different madVR settings, including most chroma upscaling, image upscaling, image downscaling, image doubling + quadrupling, SuperRes, ER Diffusion and a ton of other settings on different kind of content, such as HQ 1080p, MQ 1080p, LQ 1080p, same for 720p and then for 4xxp... It would be a pretty comprehensive and LARGE package of examples, but shouldn't there be one just like that? On what page should I start looking for SSIM downscaling examples to see difference between Catmull-Rom and SSIM? I use these settings for SD and HD content (480p, 720p and 1080p) on my 1080p display with MPC-HC + LAV Filters (DXVA 2 Copy-Back Hardware Acceleration): - 3DLUT - 10bit 0-255 output on 12bit output display - Artifact Removal - Low (top setting), Medium (bottom setting), but depends on content quality - Chroma Upscaling - NNEDI3 64n + SuperRes (Strength 3) - Image Downscaling - Catmull-Rom + AR + LL - Image Doubling and Quadrupling (Luma only) set to Always - Image Upscaling - Jink + AR - Upscaling Refinement - SuperRes 3 - Dithering - Error Diffusion Type 2 + Colored Noise and Change Dither every frame - D3D11 Exclusive Mode (3 frames in advance) - Everything disabled in Trade Quality for Performance These are obviously GPU-hungry settings for 480p, 720p, and 1080p content even for my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz and GTX 980 @ 1550Mhz. What settings do you recommend to try for: 1. 480p, 720p, and 1080p content upscaled to 4K on 4K display? 2. 4K content @ 4K on 4K display? Obviously I want the best image quality and no lost or dropped frames and no presentation glitches. Last edited by XMonarchY; 13th February 2016 at 23:09.

14th February 2016, 01:34	#36114 \| Link
Ver Greeneyes Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 447	Wanted to see how the latest version of SSIM compares to Catmull-Rom, which I was using before. Comparison. This is downscaling from 1080p to 720p, so not a very big factor and one I actually use a fair bit (both Catmull-Rom and SSIM set to use LL and AR). I have to say I'm impressed, it brings out a lot more detail! __________________ Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version)

14th February 2016, 01:08	#36112 \| Link
JarrettH Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 860	Is SSIM okay to use on a doubled image (super-xbr)? I'm a little lost as to recommendations lately. I use super-xbr 100 doubling + catmull AR + LL. I'd like to improve on that. I could do Jinc + AR and SR3 or super-xbr 100 + SSIM downscaling. Would either be more beneficial than what I'm running now? I'm concerned that going back to Jinc would cause more aliased lines, which super-xbr doubling helped with.

14th February 2016, 02:19	#36117 \| Link
har3inger Registered User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 139	Oddly enough, latest build trips smartscreen for madhtctrl.exe. It never did before. I ignored/exception'd it and it works as expected.

14th February 2016, 02:51	#36119 \| Link
har3inger Registered User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 139	Okay, I managed to find a good example of a scene where SuperRes introduces a bunch of aliasing. Or rather, what I should requalify as "blobbiness". It's not really aliasing at all, but an interruption in smooth lines. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161795 Key areas of note, although the problem is very obvious in almost all parts of the screenshot: The AOL billboard letters. Also the AOL man's border becomes non-uniform and rings a bit. All the specular reflections off the cars, especially the thinly shaped ones. They become lumpy/rough. I don't really know how to better describe it. The Boston Globe sign. Uniform white/grey becomes irregularly blobby white/grey. Brown wooden fence around the parking lot. The whole thing becomes granular with SuperRes. The source is not the best, admittedly, and could be entirely responsible for the lumpy/blobby/granular image that superres produces. This is with linear light off, but with it checked on, the strange lumpy quality remains the same.