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Old 7th December 2011, 05:30   #11301  |  Link
Andy o
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This is not a gamma problem. If your set is clipping below 16, no gamma setting will bring those levels back, just the same as brightness can't.

Just quickly testing with the gradient test at the site provided by QBhd above, I can clearly tell banding when setting CCC to pixel format limited RGB. When using full they're completely smooth. I'm using 11.11 drivers.
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Old 7th December 2011, 05:47   #11302  |  Link
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This is not a gamma problem. If your set is clipping below 16, no gamma setting will bring those levels back, just the same as brightness can't.

Just quickly testing with the gradient test at the site provided by QBhd above, I can clearly tell banding when setting CCC to pixel format limited RGB. When using full they're completely smooth. I'm using 11.11 drivers.
As I explained, I only brought up gamma because someone else brought it up as a possible source for problems. With Limited RGB, I see all the blocks properly since now the desktop is being expanded to 16-235. When using Full RGB I get no black boxes on that test. (clipping video patterns through MadVR or EVR are proper when using the correct settings for my setup) RGB Limited also shows no visible difference with that test or grayscale ramp video tests with either RGB Limited or RGB Full.... And that test is really not designed for testing video through a renderer.

Different strokes for different folks. (in this case folks=htpc setups)
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Old 7th December 2011, 06:30   #11303  |  Link
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Ok, so if the static images still do NOT show levels properly then that means the display is not accepting Full RGB. With that said, you should still have CCC set to Full RGB in Pixel format. But madVR needs to be set to TV Levels.

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Old 7th December 2011, 08:44   #11304  |  Link
Andy o
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Originally Posted by fairchild View Post
With Limited RGB, I see all the blocks properly since now the desktop is being expanded to 16-235. When using Full RGB I get no black boxes on that test. (clipping video patterns through MadVR or EVR are proper when using the correct settings for my setup) RGB Limited also shows no visible difference with that test or grayscale ramp video tests with either RGB Limited or RGB Full.... And that test is really not designed for testing video through a renderer.

Different strokes for different folks. (in this case folks=htpc setups)
It's not as simple as "different strokes" though. The pixel format output affects everything, not just video, so those images are perfectly fine to test for artifacts. Leaving aside banding for a moment, if your TV doesn't accept full RGB, you should not be seeing the same grayscale ramps when you set full or limited RGB. When outputting full RGB pixel format, you should be seeing the ramp crushed and clipped at the edges, whereas with limited RGB output you should be see a more uniform gradient.

That could be a reason why the banding introduced is not as visible to you, but you should see a difference in clipped whites/crushed blacks at least.

Or, something else than your TV simply not accepting full RGB is going on.

Also, the reason I say the issue is not that simple, is because if you're getting a smooth (properly dithered) limited RGB output, it is extremely unlikely that it's just different setups. You have a 5830, I have a 5770. It would be very surprising (and welcome) news to all of us who have been following these pixel format shenanigans for almost two years now.
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Old 7th December 2011, 09:29   #11305  |  Link
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DXVA deinterlacing bug: When switching displays (applies especially to DVDs) MPC-HC crashes on account of DXVA. I think this is linked to madVR's DXVA auto deinterlacement detection.
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Old 7th December 2011, 09:53   #11306  |  Link
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Hi all, i've been using mpc-hc+madvr for a long time with great succes. perfect quality, the frequency matching really nailed the last issues.

But the later versions experience some weird problems here:

I have setup consisting of a thinkpad T500 with a panasonic plasma TV hooked up as secondary display (dvi->hdmi), When a movie starts up fullscreen on the tv and this is switched to exclusive mode, it just displays the first frame and then you hear the audio running. If i then right-click on mpc-hc it brings up the main menu, and the video displays and sort of 'catches up'..
Also if i move the cursor to the thinkpad screen (primary) and activate another window the video will freeze again on the tv. This has been so with the versions from the last month or so. makes it a little hard to use the pc for other things while something is playing...

The 0.79 version of madvr caused massive dropped frames untill i increased the CPU and GPU queue sizes manually??

Right now using madvr 0.79 mpc-hc 1.5.3.3887

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Old 7th December 2011, 10:31   #11307  |  Link
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fairchild, Andy O,
this Full/Limited RGB having no difference reminded me of a problem in ATI drivers that was present an year or so ago ... when I was still using ATI/AMD card (I've switched to NVIDIA around that time).
Since the problem was/is in the drivers the only thing that I could do to avoid it was using a DVI output instead of HDMI. Luckily my card had two DVI outputs + HDMI + VGA so I was able to connect both my LCD Monitor and my projector (via a DVI-HDMI dongle) to DVI outputs and have real Full RGB output on both.
fairchild, do try this just to be sure that your is really not capable of receiving full RGB.
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Old 7th December 2011, 10:49   #11308  |  Link
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interesting... i put up the philips TV over DVI this time, i still dont see 0-16 in my test video if i set madvr to 0-255, but i can see all fields in the lagos lcd test picture from 1 onwards. If i set madvr to 16-235 in this configuration i can even see 0-16... same behavior i have when i set the CCC to ycbcr 4:4:4 when its connected over hdmi...
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Old 7th December 2011, 11:03   #11309  |  Link
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For the record, if your TV/HTPC is properly configured, you are not supposed to see 0-16, because all usual movie content is 16-235.
What madVR does if you set it to 0-255 output is simple - it "expands" the 16-235 input to 0-255, which means all the 0-16 and 235-255 information is lost, but thats OK, as its not supposed to be used in movie content.
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Old 7th December 2011, 11:29   #11310  |  Link
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what do you mean with properly configurated? i was under the assumption that you shouldnt see the 0-16 with correct brightness settings, but if you raise the birghtness high enough, you should see it at least on test videos. At least this is what some calibration tutorials say, regarless that movies are in 16-235
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Old 7th December 2011, 13:18   #11311  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwelcha View Post
what do you mean with properly configurated? i was under the assumption that you shouldnt see the 0-16 with correct brightness settings, but if you raise the birghtness high enough, you should see it at least on test videos. At least this is what some calibration tutorials say, regarless that movies are in 16-235
That only happens if you set madVR's input from TV Levels to PC Levels (Input NOT Output). madVR just assumes the video is TV levels. Also you should not see 0-16 flashing in these test videos if your Black levels are properly set when madVR assumes the video is TV Levels.

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Old 7th December 2011, 13:37   #11312  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Skwelcha View Post
what do you mean with properly configurated? i was under the assumption that you shouldnt see the 0-16 with correct brightness settings, but if you raise the birghtness high enough, you should see it at least on test videos. At least this is what some calibration tutorials say, regarless that movies are in 16-235
Calibration tutorials typically talk about usual home entertainment equipment, which sends Limited RGB to your TV (or more likely even YCbCr). If you setup your PC to output Limited, and set your TV to expect it, that would be the same situation - however i would not recommend that approach.

If you output "Extended" or "Full" RGB, you should never see any 0-16 lines when you play a test video with madVR, or something is improperly configured.
You should see 16-235 (i usually can see 17-234, the two extremes are sometimes indistinguishable, and only become visible while losing detail on the other end of the spectrum)
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 7th December 2011 at 14:42. Reason: Typos
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Old 7th December 2011, 13:52   #11313  |  Link
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Thanks, I've confirmed exactly what you're saying re: Limited vs. Full. I was wrong on my setup using Limited.
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Old 7th December 2011, 16:35   #11314  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Skwelcha View Post
what do you mean with properly configurated? i was under the assumption that you shouldnt see the 0-16 with correct brightness settings, but if you raise the birghtness high enough, you should see it at least on test videos. At least this is what some calibration tutorials say, regarless that movies are in 16-235
Read this Calibrate HTPC for optimal video output Think it will eliminate a number of misunderstandings.
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Old 7th December 2011, 17:16   #11315  |  Link
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doesnt this tutorial come to the same conclusion? it's a tutorial to get BTB & WTW, the same thing i want. But interesting that he cant get it with his 5770, the same series i have... maybe it's the gpu and not the TV in the end...
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Old 7th December 2011, 18:41   #11316  |  Link
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I have a 5770, and I can get BTB & WTW, as long as I set the madVR input to PC Levels. This is only done to test, it is not the setting to use for standard playback... so it's not the card

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Old 7th December 2011, 19:54   #11317  |  Link
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My current setup is:

LG TV (High black level)
ATI 6450 (Full RGB)
MadVR (PC levels)

I get flashing bars from 17-234 with a test video. 16 is black and 235 is white. Everything that gets fed to MadVR is 'as is' YV12 / NV12.

I was under the impression that this is exactly what I would want, ie I'm not supposed to see anything below 16 or above 235 if it's set up correctly. But reading all this confusion and I don't know any more lol. Seems like no-one else knows either
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Old 7th December 2011, 20:13   #11318  |  Link
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That's the setup... BTB & WTW are not needed or wanted for video playback. Using 0-255 tests are only to see if your viewing device (TV or Receiver) can accept Full RGB once the signal gets out past the GPU.
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Old 7th December 2011, 20:20   #11319  |  Link
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That's the setup... BTB & WTW are not needed or wanted for video playback. Using 0-255 tests are only to see if your viewing device (TV or Receiver) can accept Full RGB once the signal gets out past the GPU.
That's a relief then lol, TV is definitely accepting 0-255 as the gradient test pics at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/all_nop...gradient-h.png (as linked by Ando o earlier) display correctly.
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Old 7th December 2011, 20:54   #11320  |  Link
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That's not a levels test though, that's more like a banding test. But there should be levels tests in the same page.
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