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Old 11th December 2014, 18:19   #27801  |  Link
MysteryX
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the new AMD fluid motion stuff is a frame interpolation that makes frames up (with all of it's artifact of course).

madVR SM has a totally different aim. it is simply trying to display a given frame rate on a given refresh rate. it is not trying to come up with new frames and it doesn't create error like interpolations like SVP or this AMD stuff. technically all of them are interpolations but only AMD and SVP try to create things that's doesn't exist.
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2018

Did they rename their Smooth Video feature into Fluid Motion or is it something different?

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 06:26.
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Old 11th December 2014, 19:12   #27802  |  Link
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That link to a older feature I believe. Svp can use cpu and gpu, the Amd is probably just gpu. Anyways, their goal is different than what madvr try to do like Huynh said.

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Old 12th December 2014, 00:44   #27803  |  Link
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Each of these video processing enhancements, along with the 5K panel support, has different (and sometimes incredibly specific) system requirements:

AMD Fluid Motion Video requires a 35W or higher AMD 7x00 A-series APU or an AMD Radeon R9 295X2/R9 290X/R9 290/R9 285/R7 260X/R7 260 GPU, Cyberlink PowerDVD 14, and Blu-ray content.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/...catalyst-omega

I have rarely seen a computer with a Blu-ray drive to begin with

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Old 12th December 2014, 01:49   #27804  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by GREG1292 View Post
Leeperry I am still using the GTX770 and latest nvidia drivers and could not be happier with madVR
Right, well I just put back the 7850 and PQ is as stunning as ever with monostatic ED1 LL so I'll just send back the upgraditis monster to where it came from. 1080p60 content looks jaw-dropping.

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Originally Posted by GREG1292 View Post
Just want to give a shout out to all the talented programmers giving me an amazing home theater experience.
Hard to deny, madshi's excellent work on mVR deserves major kudos as PQ goes way beyond all my expectations

Hopefully someday we'll be able to repay him, should he finally decide to allow payments that is
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Old 12th December 2014, 01:58   #27805  |  Link
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Hard to deny, madshi's excellent work on mVR deserves major kudos as PQ goes way beyond all my expectations

Hopefully someday we'll be able to repay him, should he finally decide to allow payments that is
Now that I finally decided to look into AviSynth and where the rescaling algorithm came from, I have even more respect for what madshi has done.

Compared to all the work that was done around AviSynth over the years, not only did madshi recode all these features to produce better output quality, but he's also the only one to have reprogrammed all these filters to use the GPU in an optimized way, and definitely the only one that can provide good results in real-time.

This goes way beyond anything else that has been done before over the years.

(technically, someone rewrote the NNEDI3 filter to work with the GPU, but that version often has worse performance than the CPU version!)

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Old 12th December 2014, 15:06   #27806  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
NEEDI3 chroma upscaling + 970 doesn't work properly
Asus Strix 970
344.75

and there are so many bugs trying to watch MKV movies. black flashes
[...]
Using Potplayer + MADVR + LavFilters CUVID
Check that you have "use a separate device for presentation" enabled.
I would also suggest using DXVA Copy-Back rather than CUVID.

I must admit, I am disappointed with the performance of my 970 Strix in madVR though.
It can just barely manage 16 neurons NNEDI3 chroma upscaling and luma doubling with 720p60 content.

For SD content I can now use slightly higher NNEDI3 settings than my old 570, but it really doesn't seem to be much of an improvement in performance at all. Gaming performance is massively improved though.
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Old 12th December 2014, 15:32   #27807  |  Link
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Just got a ROG Swift monitor and I can't believe how demanding upscaling to 1440p is! I was originally using Jinc 3 taps / Jinc 3 taps / Error Diffusion but my GTX 670 was barely keeping up with blu-rays or even DVDs (queues looked pretty bad). I switched to Softcubic for "image upscaling" (left Jinc for Chroma) and "ordered dithering" and all is good and my queues are filled again (GPU usage at 100% when watching a blu-ray though haha). I don't know if those are the "best" settings as I didn't spend much time experimenting though (yet)

This is not a complaint as it actually looks fantastic and BTW, G-Sync works with madVR and it's much better than Reclock or JRiver's VideoClock since you can keep untouched bit-perfect audio (and you also don't need to worry about switching display mode ). G-Sync is a revolution and not just for gaming it appears
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Old 12th December 2014, 16:29   #27808  |  Link
e-t172
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Originally Posted by kalston View Post
G-Sync works with madVR
Can you explain what you mean by that? I'm interested in G-Sync but from the way it seems to be implemented it sounds like it would have no effect in madVR.
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Old 12th December 2014, 18:32   #27809  |  Link
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Well, it's just like games when you go in fullscreen exlusive mode : screen flickers briefly and the display reports that g-sync is on. And it looks perfectly smooth.

I've tried different framerates (25, 59, 60, 100...) but when I run fraps it always says 144fps (again, in fullscreen) so I'm not sure what to think now.

Even weirder, when I set the desktop refresh rate to something other than 144hz (say 100, 120) it still goes to 144hz + g-sync when I go in fullscreen exclusive mode in madVR. And when I disable g-sync... well screen still flickers briefly when entering fullscreen, display reports that g-sync is off, but refresh rate is back to... 144hz. And yes I've disabled display mode switching in madVR & JRiver. So I don't know, this is nothing to worry about for 24 or 23.976 fps IMO (and OSD didn't report the slightest dropped frame or anything during a 3h film, nor did I see anything with my eyes) but it's possible that 25 or 60 fps doesn't look "perfect" I guess. Maybe the high refresh rate just makes it a lot harder to notice. I don't have the very latest nvidia drivers (344.11 for now) as I am not rushing to upgrade my drivers nowadays. My GPU is getting old and I don't play a lot of freshly released games

Also, this means I can't use motion blur reduction (ULMB) in films because the display resets to 144hz and ULMB only works at 85, 100, 120hz. I don't know if it would look any good though, I'm just curious.

edit : hum there is a setting in nvidia control panel that I should probably play around with : "preferred refresh rate". Let's see...
edit 2 : ok that worked, no more 144hz when I enter fullscreen and ULMB does work for video playback now.

Last edited by kalston; 12th December 2014 at 19:44.
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Old 12th December 2014, 18:54   #27810  |  Link
dansrfe
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Originally Posted by kalston View Post
Just got a ROG Swift monitor and I can't believe how demanding upscaling to 1440p is! I was originally using Jinc 3 taps / Jinc 3 taps / Error Diffusion but my GTX 670 was barely keeping up with blu-rays or even DVDs (queues looked pretty bad). I switched to Softcubic for "image upscaling" (left Jinc for Chroma) and "ordered dithering" and all is good and my queues are filled again (GPU usage at 100% when watching a blu-ray though haha). I don't know if those are the "best" settings as I didn't spend much time experimenting though (yet)
That's strange, my EVGA GTX 670 FTW keeps up pretty well with Jinc 3 AR for all upscaling and Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling as well as NNEDI3 for x2 Luma.

Maybe a slight overclock is required over the GTX 670's base clock?

Last edited by dansrfe; 12th December 2014 at 18:57.
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Old 12th December 2014, 19:19   #27811  |  Link
kalston
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
That's strange, my EVGA GTX 670 FTW keeps up pretty well with Jinc 3 AR for all upscaling and Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling as well as NNEDI3 for x2 Luma.

Maybe a slight overclock is required over the GTX 670's base clock?
Ok you got me curious. And here's the catch : with g-sync off, yep, flawless performance no matter the settings. G-sync on > queues don't fill up, I get a presentation queue of 1/4 sometimes even 0/4 and fraps reports a very fluctuating framerate below 144 (even though madVR doesn't report dropped frames or glitches) and it does look bad. But as soon as I switch back to windowed it looks perfect though. Oh yeah and GPU usage at 100% is also totally due to g-sync, it's a reasonable 30% or so without it. So that settles it, g-sync off for JRiver.

Last edited by kalston; 12th December 2014 at 19:34.
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Old 12th December 2014, 20:46   #27812  |  Link
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What's recommended to downscale 2560*1440 to fullHD. It seems like a YT channel I watch moved past fullhd.
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Old 12th December 2014, 21:06   #27813  |  Link
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Originally Posted by kalston View Post
edit : hum there is a setting in nvidia control panel that I should probably play around with : "preferred refresh rate". Let's see...
edit 2 : ok that worked, no more 144hz when I enter fullscreen and ULMB does work for video playback now.
That setting defaults to leave the refresh rate alone in the newer drivers. There have also been other minor improvements for G-sync in the newer drivers (unless you have SLI, then there are major improvements).

madVR's smooth motion works quite well at 144 Hz but using 120 Hz is optimal, of course.

You absolutely DO NOT want ULMB for low frame rate content with madVR. The frame is repeated four or five times.

When your eyes are tracking motion ULMB causes you to see five separate images instead of normal motion blur so it looks like there is motion ghosting instead of motion blurring. Ghosting is worse than blur (to most people at least) as we are used to motion blur in film. Actually when watching filmed content with a lot of motion blur you are unlikely to notice the ghosting so maybe it doesn't matter that much but with anime ULMB looks bad. I can notice what looks like very bad LCD ghosting, especially during pans, with ULMB on.

ULMB would probably be nice with some sort of motion interpolation (e.g. SVP), except for the motion interpolation artifacts.

(PG278Q ROG Swift, SLI Titans, Win 8.1 x64)
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Old 12th December 2014, 21:50   #27814  |  Link
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You absolutely DO NOT want ULMB for low frame rate content with madVR. The frame is repeated four or five times.

When your eyes are tracking motion ULMB causes you to see five separate images instead of normal motion blur so it looks like there is motion ghosting instead of motion blurring. Ghosting is worse than blur (to most people at least) as we are used to motion blur in film.
Huh? I thought this was exactly how traditional film cinema projectors work: each frame is "flashed" two or three times, see Wikipedia: Shutter. So I'm somewhat confused - it seems like doing ULMB would bring the display closer to what a traditional cinema projector does, which sounds like a good thing. In fact, I was looking forward to using ULMB on 24p content precisely for that reason.

Last edited by e-t172; 12th December 2014 at 21:55.
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Old 12th December 2014, 22:05   #27815  |  Link
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Huh? I thought this was exactly how traditional film cinema projectors work: each frame is "flashed" two or three times, see Wikipedia: Shutter. So I'm somewhat confused - it seems like doing ULMB would bring the display closer to what a traditional cinema projector does, which sounds like a good thing. In fact, I was looking forward to using ULMB on 24p content precisely for that reason.
I think so too and from my testing it didn't look bad at all, probably because madVR is outputting 120 and not 24fps.

In games however if the framerate isn't high enough ULMB looks horrible, as expected.
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Old 12th December 2014, 22:30   #27816  |  Link
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Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
Huh? I thought this was exactly how traditional film cinema projectors work: each frame is "flashed" two or three times, see Wikipedia: Shutter. So I'm somewhat confused - it seems like doing ULMB would bring the display closer to what a traditional cinema projector does, which sounds like a good thing. In fact, I was looking forward to using ULMB on 24p content precisely for that reason.
This is done to reduce flicker, not because it is optimal.
Motion will not be smooth unless the refresh rate matches the framerate.

The issue with low persistence displays is that anything less than 50Hz or so flickers too much to only display the image once.
Even then, going back to 50/60Hz CRT-style flicker would not be acceptable to most people these days. That's why ULMB only works at 85/100/120Hz.

What is needed to solve this problem is high framerate video. That's why most of the LCD televisions which offer backlight scanning typically combine it with interpolation.
This allows them to use a low persistence backlight scanning mode at 120/240Hz without repeating images - though interpolation brings its own problems.
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Old 12th December 2014, 22:48   #27817  |  Link
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This is done to reduce flicker, not because it is optimal.
Motion will not be smooth unless the refresh rate matches the framerate.
Of course. The question is whether ULMB looks better than simply outputting 24p@120Hz without ULMB. Or even compared to Smooth Motion.
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Old 12th December 2014, 23:18   #27818  |  Link
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Of course. The question is whether ULMB looks better than simply outputting 24p@120Hz without ULMB. Or even compared to Smooth Motion.
Do you prefer motion blur or stuttering motion? That's all it really comes down to.
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Old 12th December 2014, 23:46   #27819  |  Link
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It is not clear to me how UMLB would cause stuttering. Unless you are coming from the position that traditional cinema and CRT stutter.
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Old 13th December 2014, 00:10   #27820  |  Link
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With the new version of madVR, I can't force film mode for a DVD. Weird.
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