madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by cyberlolo

So, in this example, if we use madVR with PC Levels, or new version of cr3dlut set at 16-245, what would happen with all those triplets that have values exceeding the nominal range in RGB???

Will be clipped, of course.

Originally Posted by cyberlolo

but I really need to understant how this is working in order to achieve the better possible PQ.

To be safe you will need to set it to 16-254, though, the movies where this happens might be scarce, and you would end up using your display's contrast ratio not at its best...
I've said 16-245 because from my experience it should be a good value for the majority of the available movies. Also, in my case, with a display with a very low contrast ratio (~800:1), I prefer to have a slight clipping and to get the maximum of contrast I can get. In case your display has plenty of contrast, you can go the safe route and just set it to the secure range above.
Let's discuss this after releasing it. I will also start a new thread for that. Just wait a little more.

[cyberlolo]

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

Will be clipped, of course.


To be safe you will need to set it to 16-254, though, the movies where this happens might be scarce, and you would end up using your display's contrast ratio not at its best...
I've said 16-245 because from my experience it should be a good value for the majority of the available movies. Also, in my case, with a display with a very low contrast ratio (~800:1), I prefer to have a slight clipping and to get the maximum of contrast I can get. In case your display has plenty of contrast, you can go the safe route and just set it to the secure range above.
Let's discuss this after releasing it. I will also start a new thread for that. Just wait a little more.

I've got a Pioneer KRP, and I think it's contrast ratio is at least 16000:1. I can't say it for sure because the user manual only says "extreme", but in some internet sites, they say it's 16000:1. Also, you need to know that I mainly use HTPC for watching TV shows more than movies, and 99% of them are mkvs. I know that in movies (Blu-Rays, DVDs, BDRips, ...) there's valuable wtw info, but I'm not so sure regarding TV shows...

So, with my contrast ratio and viewing preferences, what's your advice: set it to 16-245 or to 16-255?

BTW, I've read the EDID of my TV, and in a section of that file there comes the color primaries of my display. Do you know if those primaries are the exact coordinates for my individual display, or are they the generic ones that the manufacturer sets for each device of the product family? In any case, I guess it would be a good idea to create a 3dlut with them and use it, don't you think?

Thanks again!

P.S. I'm counting the days for your new version of cr3dlut to be released...

[cyberlolo]

Originally Posted by cyberlolo

I've got a Pioneer KRP, and I think it's contrast ratio is at least 16000:1. I can't say it for sure because the user manual only says "extreme", but in some internet sites, they say it's 16000:1. Also, you need to know that I mainly use HTPC for watching TV shows more than movies, and 99% of them are mkvs. I know that in movies (Blu-Rays, DVDs, BDRips, ...) there's valuable wtw info, but I'm not so sure regarding TV shows...

So, with my contrast ratio and viewing preferences, what's your advice: set it to 16-245 or to 16-255?

BTW, I've read the EDID of my TV, and in a section of that file there comes the color primaries of my display. Do you know if those primaries are the exact coordinates for my individual display, or are they the generic ones that the manufacturer sets for each device of the product family? In any case, I guess it would be a good idea to create a 3dlut with them and use it, don't you think?

Thanks again!

P.S. I'm counting the days for your new version of cr3dlut to be released...

@yesgrey:

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm trying to get the best from my HTPC. So can you please answer me this 2 more questions?:

1) With my contrast ratio (16000:1) and viewing preferences (mkvs TV shows), what's your advice: set it to 16-245 or to 16-255?

2) Do you advice me to use the color primaries that come in the EDID of my TV creating a custom 3dlut, or that primaries are too generic and it's better to not use a custom 3dlut with them until I have the exact primaries of my display?

Thanks in advance!

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by cyberlolo

So can you please answer me this 2 more questions?

1) My advice is to wait a little more, test both, and then decide for yourself.
By the way, the other option is not 16-255, but 16-254, because the 255 value don't have any video data.

2) Yes, it might be a good idea, it should not hurt.

[cyberlolo]

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

1) My advice is to wait a little more, test both, and then decide for yourself.
By the way, the other option is not 16-255, but 16-254, because the 255 value don't have any video data.

2) Yes, it might be a good idea, it should not hurt.

Yes, you're right, it's 16-254, sorry.

Thank you for your advices. I'll do what you say.

[Fadeout]

Ok, this is extremely weird. Today I was doing some experiments to check quality and at some point using MadVR I noticed a HUGE improvement.

After a lot of changes I figured out that I'm running some weird setup that seems NOT using MadVR. What I mean is that once I got MadVR properly running with CoreAVC the image quality was the same I had with the standard WMR9 + YV12 chroma upsampling shader (since without I get pixellated red with WMR9). So same quality image between MadVR and WMR9.

But this doesn't explain why at some point I had that MUCH improved video quality. I finally discovered that I can get it to show if I enable MadVR WITH DXVA enabled. If I run mpc-hc that way I get this weird much improved video quality. Under the filter menu I only see MPC Video Decoder (DXVA, even if it doesn't show DXVA at the info bar) and a mysterious "Video Render". MadVR isn't listed even if it's selected in the Options.

So the weird thing is:
- MadVR doesn't seem running.
- I get a kind of video output that looks incredibly sharp, no pixellated red, and can't reproduce this output with any combination of MadVR, WMR9, CoreAVC or DXVA.

I only get that output with MadVR enabled and DXVA. This on WinXP and an ATI videocard. Someone can explain what is going on? (can't post screenshots because I can't capture anything using this)

[Astrophizz]

"Video Render" is the fallback renderer, which means something is going wrong when you try to use MadVR.

[Fadeout]

After more research it seems that what I perceived as a much better quality is some slight edge sharpening.

But it is truly odd that this fallback render does edge sharpening and chroma upsampling on its own. How can this happen?

[namaiki]

Sounds like you might be using the Overlay renderer?

Regarding sharp - Fadeout, is there any resizing of the video frame being done there?

[STaRGaZeR]

Originally Posted by Fadeout

After more research it seems that what I perceived as a much better quality is some slight edge sharpening.

But it is truly odd that this fallback render does edge sharpening and chroma upsampling on its own. How can this happen?

Maybe because your graphics card is doing the YCbCr --> RGB conversion, plus adding the EE.

[kostik]

Why dont I see any difference between turning 3dlut on and off?
I have made a costume 3dluts files.
PC:
# Example input file for cr3dlut v2.1 and up
#
# Settings for creating a 3D LUT for watching the following Video formats:
# Blu-ray, HD DVD, ATSC HD Broadcast, PAL HD Broadcast
# without any Display correction
# Includes YCbCr->RGB conversion using PC Levels (Black: 0 and White: 255)

# Set input bitdepth
Input_Bit_Depth 8

# Set source video format
Input_Video_Format HD YCbCr

# Set output bitdepth
Output_Bit_Depth 16

# Set display video format
Output_Video_Format HD RGB_PC

Chromatic_Adaptation 2

Input_Primaries 9 0.642 0.331 0.299 0.603 0.150 0.067 0.314 0.331

Output_Primaries 9 0.642 0.331 0.299 0.603 0.150 0.067 0.314 0.331

Input_Gamma 9 1.0 0.0 0.45 0.0

Output_Gamma 9 1.0 0.0 0.45 0.0


AND hd_video the same as in HD_PC just output video format is RGB_VIDEO.

Did I write it correctly?
the files that I made are : HD - Video.3dlut and HD - PC.3dlut.
I put the files in the main Madvr folder(including the txt files) and in the cr3dlut folder, the files before were erased.
thnx

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by kostik

Input_Primaries 9 0.642 0.331 0.299 0.603 0.150 0.067 0.314 0.331

Did I write it correctly?

Why are you setting input primaries? That option is to be used only when you're using a custom source format, and I think that's not your case... Try removing that line and try again.

[kostik]

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

Why are you setting input primaries? That option is to be used only when you're using a custom source format, and I think that's not your case... Try removing that line and try again.

thank you

[GaBBa-Gandalf]

Hi guys...

I guess all these settings etc. are highly complicated...

Is it possible, that we all wo knows about this stuff can write an more or less article about ist or at least want would be the best setting...

For example i have a HTPC with an ATI 5670 graphic card an an AVR (Denon 2309) which handle Deep Color....

But now i'm totally confused if i should use YCbCr (4:4:4 / 2:2:2) or RGB!?!

Sorry but the hole topic is just hard to understand

GaBBa

[peter0328]

I just tried installing this renderer but as most other people have found attempting to play any file cause MPC HC to hang requiring me to end via task manager.

What do I need to do to fix this? Is there a specific NVIDIA driver I should install? Please link me to it if this is so.

My system settings and programs relating to media playback are:

NVIDIA driver 196.21
Win 7 Ultimate x64
ffdshow tryouts x64 revision 3305
MPC HC x86 build number 1.3.1752.0
Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3
GTX 295 Quad SLI
Core i7 920
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P (BIOS F10)

All settings for MPC are default except madVR set as renderer and SPDIF output via Xonar is default. I also have changed AC3 and DTS to bitstream in MPC and via ffdshow settings (I also enabled TrueHD and DTS-HD MA bitstream in ffdshow settings). I disabled ffdshow DXVA in ffdshow settings and made ffdshow video output have only YV12 checked.

Please help me out if you can and let me know if I can provide anymore info if what I have included is not enough to diagnose/fix the problem.

[djsolidsnake86]

we will ever see 0.12?

[kostik]

Why when I add the gamma line in my 3dlut file ( I mentioned above), the blacks in dark scenes get whiter (white pixels).
These white pixelation happens only when the 3dlut file is on.

[namaiki]

Originally Posted by peter0328

NVIDIA driver 196.21
ffdshow tryouts x64 revision 3305

Try use forceware 18x.xx.
...
You must use 32-bit components.

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by kostik

Why when I add the gamma line in my 3dlut file ( I mentioned above), the blacks in dark scenes get whiter (white pixels).

That's a problem I'm aware of. You need to use the same gamma curve for both input and output at lower levels to avoid that.

[kostik]

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

That's a problem I'm aware of. You need to use the same gamma curve for both input and output at lower levels to avoid that.

how do I do that?