Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
|
25th March 2010, 20:40 | #1 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 676
|
Color banding and noise removal
Is it possible to deband a source and also denoise it?
Should I denoise first and then deband? Using GradFun2DB for instance, it won't get rid of it but it will take the banding down a notch, however if I were to there apply something like LSFMod, or in general some other noise reducers / it will undo the bebanding( as it seems it just adds grain to break it up), and then the banding will come back with even more clarity and well defined borders. So it ends up looking like an ugly gradient, for lack of a better term, with those wavey line borders and all that fun stuff. What also puzzles me, is that even though I am doing no color mode conversions, etc to even create this banding (its present on the DVD source) when I watch either the DVD or a straight unfiltered encode of the same episode, you can almost not even tell it is there on the TV screen. Why is that? Any suggestions on some strong, but safe settings for GradFun2DB, or other x64 compiled filters for this (degrainmedian, etc?) would be preferred. I'll provide a source section once a test encode I am running is done, if its needed. But this was more of a general question on effective settings for some filters versus a plea for someone to do the work for me. |
27th March 2010, 00:18 | #2 | Link |
ekTOMBE STUDIOS
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cuba
Posts: 254
|
After ALOT of battle agains grain VS Banding i can tell you this for sure:
You eat the grain, you ll get banding. Some sources are encoded without dithering and have banding. Some sources have no grain but are encoded with dithering to avoid banding (dithering in the end is noise like grain for you) My actual choices (after MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANY teest with animes and grainy sources) Opt A: Do a strong denoising using FFT3d or moderate denoising using vaguedenoiser or anything like that -> good compression (not too high bit rate needed, not too big file) -> banding -> enable deband filter on FFDSHOW duting playback and it works excellent. Opt B: Calm the grain using some temporal grain compressor like TTEMPSMOTH (my favorite) or this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139766 or this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...rain+optimizer that will give you a more stable grain then -> encode using high bit rate (1800 kbps or more) using grain retention settings on X264 or qpel + MPEG matrix on XVID -> Bigger file -> no banding -> looks very nice to me (for anime i'm ok sometimes with the anime preset on x264, i don need the grain preset) IF your source have banding -> subtle denoiser (there is ALWAYS some noise on DVDs) -> encode normally -> enable deband on ffdshow during playback. Or Encode using gradfun or THIS: GradFun2DBmod.v1.3.avsi (google) Your source will look grainy again but it wont have banding. Of course you need high bit rate for this. But i can tell you this for sure > DVD sources have grain or dithering (i cant speak for HD yet, ask other person) so Degrain or denoise + no banding is impossible. Yes on the TV (a common TV) you can see the banding even if is an encode or the original DVD with banding. When you are on your monitor maybe bacause a bigger luma range you can see the banding. If you have a flat display it will look worst. It's up to you, keep the grain or remove it and leave the banding. If your DVD has banding, well use some of the solutions i tested. Good luck EDIT: Read this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...rain+optimizer
__________________
So, it works or not??? |
27th March 2010, 16:03 | #3 | Link |
͡҉҉ ̵̡̢̛̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠͇̊̋̌̍̎̏̿̿
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: No support in PM
Posts: 712
|
(Original reply replaced by this Dither presentation.)
Download
All these plug-ins include the -Vit- threading fixes. What is it? Dither is a package including several scripts and avisynth plug-ins. Some of them are modification of existing ones (dfttest and MVTools 2). I primarily wrote the Dither tools to fight color banding during denoising in an unusual way. But Dither can perform various operations :
Why should I use it? Because denoising and lossy compression can easily make colorbanding appear. By transdithering, it is possible to recover original gradients better than using a filter + GradFun2DB(mod). Moreover, classic error-diffusion dithering algorithms require a high bitrate during encoding, otherwise color banding appears again. Dither offers an ordered dithering (Bayer matrix), which is more resilient to data compression. How can I use it? The simplest way to transdither a relatively clean source, using the modified dfttest: Code:
dfttest (sigma=2, lsb=true) DitherPost () For an already denoised source, use Code:
GradFun3 ()
__________________
dither 1.28.1 for AviSynth | avstp 1.0.4 for AviSynth development | fmtconv r30 for Vapoursynth & Avs+ | trimx264opt segmented encoding Last edited by cretindesalpes; 10th November 2020 at 15:52. Reason: Package update (dither 1.28.1) |
9th May 2012, 03:18 | #4 | Link |
soy sauce buyer
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 164
|
cretindesalpes, the BT.709 coefficients matrix used in dither package is:
kr = 0.2125 kg = 0.7154 kb = 0.0721 That is the outdated version in early draft of ITU.709, and the latest one in ITU.709-5 is: kr = 0.2126 kg = 0.7152 kb = 0.0722 Hope to correct it in the next release. |
9th May 2012, 07:48 | #5 | Link |
͡҉҉ ̵̡̢̛̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠͇̊̋̌̍̎̏̿̿
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: No support in PM
Posts: 712
|
Thanks. I've taken the coefficients from the Avisynth documentation, without checking if they were right. It's fixed now, it will be available in the next release. I also corrected the Avisynth page.
__________________
dither 1.28.1 for AviSynth | avstp 1.0.4 for AviSynth development | fmtconv r30 for Vapoursynth & Avs+ | trimx264opt segmented encoding |
3rd June 2012, 19:55 | #6 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Near LA, California, USA
Posts: 1,545
|
Quote:
EDIT Link works now. Thank You.
__________________
Pirate: Now how would you like to die? Would you like to have your head chopped off or be burned at the stake? Curly: Burned at the stake! Moe: Why? Curly: A hot steak is always better than a cold chop. Last edited by Revgen; 4th June 2012 at 13:17. |
|
7th July 2013, 17:43 | #8 | Link |
͡҉҉ ̵̡̢̛̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠͇̊̋̌̍̎̏̿̿
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: No support in PM
Posts: 712
|
Yes people already asked me about BT.2020. Sorry for my slow replies, I’m not visiting the forum regularly these days and didn't code much for the Dither tools either. I want to finish optimizing fmtconv for Vapoursynth first, then backport the changes to Dither and finally add new features. I may release a quickfix in the meantime for various problems reported with the latest Avisynth 2.6a4.
__________________
dither 1.28.1 for AviSynth | avstp 1.0.4 for AviSynth development | fmtconv r30 for Vapoursynth & Avs+ | trimx264opt segmented encoding |
9th June 2014, 08:39 | #9 | Link | |
47.952fps@71.928Hz
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 940
|
<strike>Is the update a minor thing? I hadn't even noticed it changed versions until I had to update my laptop (low priority udpates).</strike>
EDIT: Ah, the small change doesn't affect my normal work environment. Here's what the changelog says in the doc for those who are interested: Quote:
__________________
Win10 (x64) build 19041 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB (GP106) 3071MB/GDDR5 | (r435_95-4) NTSC | DVD: R1 | BD: A AMD Ryzen 5 2600 @3.4GHz (6c/12th, I'm on AVX2 now!)
Last edited by Sparktank; 9th June 2014 at 08:43. Reason: found changelog |
|
27th August 2014, 08:00 | #10 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,462
|
Quote:
__________________
Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
|
27th August 2014, 08:13 | #11 | Link |
47.952fps@71.928Hz
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 940
|
Yes, it seems down (for now).
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.c...esoras.free.fr Site Status reports a specific error: 500 (timeout) http://www.sitestatus.net/ I'm sure it's temporary for now. EDIT: teh actual domain "free.fr" is up. http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/free.fr.html
__________________
Win10 (x64) build 19041 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB (GP106) 3071MB/GDDR5 | (r435_95-4) NTSC | DVD: R1 | BD: A AMD Ryzen 5 2600 @3.4GHz (6c/12th, I'm on AVX2 now!)
Last edited by Sparktank; 27th August 2014 at 08:17. |
27th August 2014, 08:17 | #12 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,462
|
Quote:
__________________
Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
|
27th August 2014, 09:31 | #13 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,462
|
Quote:
Hmm, if I'm to believe my hover-text, my MaskTools are still at 1.15.10 (I could have sworn they were at 2 a48). They're on the same French site, though, which is still down. There used to be an AviSynth filter repository, iirc.
__________________
Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
|
25th September 2015, 11:46 | #14 | Link | |
Acid fr0g
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,577
|
Quote:
At least of modified MVTools. Please. =P
__________________
@turment on Telegram Last edited by tormento; 25th September 2015 at 11:48. |
|
25th September 2015, 18:28 | #15 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,666
|
Quote:
|
|
25th September 2015, 20:34 | #16 | Link | |
Acid fr0g
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,577
|
Quote:
It's a pity AviSynth+ has a problem of image corruption.
__________________
@turment on Telegram |
|
27th March 2010, 18:53 | #18 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 676
|
Interesting solution you have there.
As for this particular source, I decided to just let it be as it was too much confusion on my part. Its worth noting I don't watch much on my PC, I encode for playback on my WDTV Live on a large screen (sadly I don't know its size haha) HDTV. Compressibility isn't much of a concern as x264 under CRF gives close to DVD quality results in the upper range of sub-1000kbps (on the TV). But I'll probably come back to this for future encodes I know will be pretty noisy as they were poor transfers to DVD. |
29th March 2010, 17:32 | #20 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 676
|
Clip #1 This is not an example clip, I was wondering however if this is an example of Halo artifacts? (the edges around the students portable game thing)
Clip #2 - This is the color banding (I hope) clip. It's 26MB and spans several scenes which each have varying degrees of banding. I have never been able to successfully filter them, or reduce noise without greatly enhancing the visibility of the bands. These come from Death Note, Episode 1, R1 DVD |
Tags |
color banding, deblocking, noise reduction |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|