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29th March 2006, 22:20 | #61 | Link | |
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Aside from the possibility that the code could be used by MPEG patent holders to prove accidental patent infringement, I can't think of any reason why it is in On2's interests not to have this in the public domain. There is nothing mind-blowing in the algorithms used. Now, if someone was to write a VP6 decoder from scratch without copying anything from the leaked code, the copyright problem goes away. We would then have an open-source implementation that can't be censored by On2's lawyers. IMHO & IANAL |
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29th March 2006, 22:42 | #62 | Link | |
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BeHappy - AviSynth-based audio transcoding tool Audio encoding via AviSynth On2 VP7 is great in quality but it is unusable for long-term video backup puposes! Sincerely Yours, MCPD/MCTS |
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29th March 2006, 23:50 | #63 | Link | |
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30th March 2006, 00:01 | #64 | Link | |
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As I said before it's impossible to get LGPL-ed decoder until On2 will publish VP62 bitstream specification... So forget about VP62 and move to Theora/ASP/AVC/Snow/Dirac
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BeHappy - AviSynth-based audio transcoding tool Audio encoding via AviSynth On2 VP7 is great in quality but it is unusable for long-term video backup puposes! Sincerely Yours, MCPD/MCTS |
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30th March 2006, 09:12 | #65 | Link |
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@dimzon: I think you're underestimating the reverse-engineering skills of ffmpeg developers. They are fully capable of creating a vp6 decoder without looking at the leaked code and without having the official bitstream spec.
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30th March 2006, 12:35 | #66 | Link | |
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i assume on2 would know for sure if its code from themselves that has been released without approval.
therefore reading on2s statements i assume more that its reverse engineered, and on2 isnt sure whether its illegal to release code reverse engineering their format and therefore they cant make 100% clear statements another possibility would be that they know that the code released is their own code, but they dont want to say it publically because it would give their competitors the info that its on2's code (which they now dont know for sure...) Quote:
check the specs, or at least my theora sticky, which both list the differences before guessing
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30th March 2006, 13:12 | #67 | Link | |||
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IMHO a decoder written without copying anything of VP6 is not illegal. It does not matter whether it was created through reverse engineering, from a spec or by learning from leaked source. The act of reverse engineering is probably a breach of On2's license, but that wouldn't make the resultant code illegal especially if the reverse engineer did not agree to that license. A person who leaks source is guilty of at least copyright infringement and possibly contract violation, if they have a contract with On2. My point is that even if reverse engineering and/or a leak help someone to write and release a clean decoder implementation, On2 can really only use a very weak (it's source code, not a working product) patent infringement case to get the code pulled. Assuming they have patents covering VP6 decoding, which they may not. IANAL. Quote:
Last edited by temporance; 30th March 2006 at 13:14. |
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30th March 2006, 13:14 | #68 | Link | |
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IMHO&IANAL it wouldn't matter if ffmpeg devs looked at the leaked code so long as they didn't copy it. |
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30th March 2006, 14:15 | #69 | Link | |
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Though considering how sue happy everyone is nowadays, even this could be problematic. It's probably safer to stay away from that code (assuming it really is stolen/leaked) and implement a decoder with pure reverse engineering. But the point I wanted to make is that dimzon said it's impossible to write a decoder without On2 releasing the bitstream spec. This is simply not true. It only takes a skilled developer and - most important - lots of time. And the ffmpeg devs definitely have the required skills. |
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30th March 2006, 16:06 | #70 | Link | |
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On2Tech, it would have been more gracefull to simply give a no comment for the moment IMO. |
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30th March 2006, 17:01 | #71 | Link | |
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BeHappy - AviSynth-based audio transcoding tool Audio encoding via AviSynth On2 VP7 is great in quality but it is unusable for long-term video backup puposes! Sincerely Yours, MCPD/MCTS |
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30th March 2006, 17:48 | #72 | Link |
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can anyone show me the link to the laws (american, european...) making reverse engineering illegal?
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30th March 2006, 18:07 | #73 | Link | ||
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30th March 2006, 18:40 | #75 | Link | |
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BeHappy - AviSynth-based audio transcoding tool Audio encoding via AviSynth On2 VP7 is great in quality but it is unusable for long-term video backup puposes! Sincerely Yours, MCPD/MCTS |
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30th March 2006, 18:54 | #76 | Link |
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who needs to care about a license you have never signed? i heavily doubt this has any value
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31st March 2006, 14:32 | #77 | Link |
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even the DMCA has a reverse engineering excemption for interoperability reasons.. judges just never read it (or don't understand, are paid not to understand.. just goes to show we need people with knowledge of the law and technology in courts.. they even teach copyright and patent law at engineering colleges today so why should it be any different from those on the other side of the bench?)
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1st April 2006, 19:32 | #78 | Link |
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clsid >> In some European countries licenses don't have much legal weight.
I'm not sure much but IMHO Russian laws says that license is much legal than law. dimzon > obtained decoder will be legal only in this countries I don't think so. If user of reverse-engineering-specs-based codec has no business with original codec then he owes nothing to original copyright owner, is he?
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4th April 2006, 20:21 | #79 | Link | ||
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