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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:41   #18081  |  Link
Dodgexander
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What kind of solutions are there in the market for pal users then? Because making a tv refresh at a multiple of 24 is one thing, but what about 25?

Can any displays dynamically change their refresh rate? Because I thought that wasn't possible any more.

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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:02   #18082  |  Link
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My TV, at least, accepts a 24Hz signal and refreshes at 24Hz when receiving said 24Hz signal. By calling it a 60Hz display I just meant it doesn't claim to refresh at anything higher than 60Hz.

Of course modern displays can change their refresh rates on the fly, none of the displays I have cannot. MadVR's refresh rate changer wouldn't be much use if they couldn't. You should be able to run at 25 or 50Hz on some models.

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I don't think it's a limitation, just that they're not really designed that way.
It is a limitation when plugged into a PC, if the panel can refresh at 120Hz why not accept a 120Hz signal? If the display is new enough to support HDMI 1.4b and calls itself a 120/240Hz display I don't see why it doesn't support 120Hz input. The hardware in a few pretty cheap Korean monitors supports 2560x1440@120Hz so it cannot be that hard.

Last edited by Asmodian; 22nd March 2013 at 03:30. Reason: added quote and response
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:17   #18083  |  Link
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Smooth Motion option 1 activating erroneously with high refresh rate multiples is a known issue in 0.86.1, which should be resolved in the next madVR release.
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Since you have a 120Hz display that properly plays 24p, you don't need to use FRC smooth motion. Just set your refresh rate to 23Hz for 24p.
Thanks to you all who replied. The reason I want a 120hz display is because not only I like to play FPS games (more frame rate makes a huge difference) but also because of the "smooth" vision you get in the whole screen, I've seen it one time and I can't get it out of my head.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:37   #18084  |  Link
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I love my Tempest X270OC monitor for those reasons.

Sadly a 120Hz TV will give you none of them.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:55   #18085  |  Link
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It is a limitation when plugged into a PC, if the panel can refresh at 120Hz why not accept a 120Hz signal? If the display is new enough to support HDMI 1.4b and calls itself a 120/240Hz display I don't see why it doesn't support 120Hz input. The hardware in a few pretty cheap Korean monitors supports 2560x1440@120Hz so it cannot be that hard.
Why would TV manufacturers support an input refresh rate that hardly anyone would use? HDTVs are mainly used for film, video and console gaming where a 120Hz input signal is not needed for any of them. I'm sure at some point we will see HDTVs supporting higher refresh rates, but now it's a very niche feature to include. The fact that 120Hz HDTVs don't support 120Hz from an external source does not mean that they aren't actually refreshing at 120Hz.

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Old 22nd March 2013, 08:04   #18086  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
What kind of solutions are there in the market for pal users then? Because making a tv refresh at a multiple of 24 is one thing, but what about 25?
Most TVs sold in Europe support 50Hz/100Hz in addition to the 60Hz/120Hz, however many TVs sold in the US come without 50/100Hz support..
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Old 22nd March 2013, 11:07   #18087  |  Link
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post
Why would TV manufacturers support an input refresh rate that hardly anyone would use? HDTVs are mainly used for film, video and console gaming where a 120Hz input signal is not needed for any of them. I'm sure at some point we will see HDTVs supporting higher refresh rates, but now it's a very niche feature to include. The fact that 120Hz HDTVs don't support 120Hz from an external source does not mean that they aren't actually refreshing at 120Hz.
Don't want to start an argument or anything especially because it's a little off-topic, but that mindset is what makes technology more stagnant IMHO. We say something such as "we don't need it" many times, and we were wrong many of that times. The perfect example would be tablets, long time ago no one thought of going around in the streets with a portable big screen with them, it was just crazy. I believe the same thing applies to real 120hz screens (anything that doesn't rely on ghosting). Once people get the knowledge about the pros of it (including the ones I mentioned) then we might as well have a new potential for business and new customers.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 13:25   #18088  |  Link
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UHDTV specs include 120 fps, so the new UHDTV TV's should support it.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 13:34   #18089  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
What kind of solutions are there in the market for pal users then? Because making a tv refresh at a multiple of 24 is one thing, but what about 25?

Can any displays dynamically change their refresh rate? Because I thought that wasn't possible any more.

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Essentially all TVs can dynamically change their refresh rate. If you buy an HDTV in the UK it'll be able to display at least 50 Hz, 59.94 Hz and 60 Hz (or integer multiples thereof) and probably 23.976 Hz and 24 Hz too. It's PC monitors, which are largely limited to 60 Hz, that are the problem.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 20:42   #18090  |  Link
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Don't want to start an argument or anything especially because it's a little off-topic, but that mindset is what makes technology more stagnant IMHO. We say something such as "we don't need it" many times, and we were wrong many of that times. The perfect example would be tablets, long time ago no one thought of going around in the streets with a portable big screen with them, it was just crazy. I believe the same thing applies to real 120hz screens (anything that doesn't rely on ghosting). Once people get the knowledge about the pros of it (including the ones I mentioned) then we might as well have a new potential for business and new customers.
That's just the way it is with TVs these days. Many TV manufacturers are struggling and the ones that aren't are focusing on the mainstream market that could care less about accepting 120Hz refresh rates. Even to most videophiles it's not a big concern. Again, there most likely will be TVs that will accept 120Hz refresh rate in the near future, but the demand for it is very low right now, both content and consumer wise.

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Old 22nd March 2013, 20:47   #18091  |  Link
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If the refresh rate can be set to multiple of fps is there any use in reclock?
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Old 22nd March 2013, 21:30   #18092  |  Link
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But I thought if I was to set my tv to 50 Hz, because the panel is at 60Hz you would still see judder, for the same reason as 24 Hz viewed on a 60 Hz display.

Let's not get mixed up here, I'm talking about the output refresh rate, not input.

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Old 22nd March 2013, 21:34   #18093  |  Link
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If the refresh rate can be set to multiple of fps is there any use in reclock?
Yes, for wasapi output. But also because there is a small difference between 24hz and 23.9 meaning in order not to see a frame added every so often you want to alter the audio clock instead(essentially what reclock does)

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Old 22nd March 2013, 21:41   #18094  |  Link
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Can it is time divide a forum discussion of algorithms and discussion of monitors with video cards and frequency of updating?

What into the account of this shader?
https://github.com/libretro/common-s.../Anti-aliasing
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Old 22nd March 2013, 22:13   #18095  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
But I thought if I was to set my tv to 50 Hz, because the panel is at 60Hz you would still see judder, for the same reason as 24 Hz viewed on a 60 Hz display.

Let's not get mixed up here, I'm talking about the output refresh rate, not input.

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What do you mean "the panel is 60 Hz"? The panel can be driven at multiple frequencies and, as I said above, as long as the panel accepts a 50 Hz input signal, it will display it natively without judder. People in Europe do this every day...
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Old 22nd March 2013, 22:46   #18096  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secvensor View Post
Can it is time divide a forum discussion of algorithms and discussion of monitors with video cards and frequency of updating?

What into the account of this shader?
https://github.com/libretro/common-s.../Anti-aliasing
Can it be used directly in MPC/POTp?
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Old 22nd March 2013, 23:48   #18097  |  Link
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You guys do realize that most 60Hz monitors can be fed 48Hz or 50Hz to display exact multiples right? And with ReClock 23.976 is easily sped up to 24fps to match 48Hz exactly. It's not the best solution but it's better than running everything at 60Hz although with FRC that recommendation changes I believe.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 00:45   #18098  |  Link
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You guys do realize that most 60Hz monitors can be fed 48Hz or 50Hz to display exact multiples right? And with ReClock 23.976 is easily sped up to 24fps to match 48Hz exactly. It's not the best solution but it's better than running everything at 60Hz although with FRC that recommendation changes I believe.
"Most"? I don't think so.

Some that claim to only support 60 Hz can be made to accept other refresh rates using special software but certainly not all. Even my high-end 24WMGX3 only supports 50 Hz via HDMI and even then it clearly isn't natively displayed because there is tearing.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 02:24   #18099  |  Link
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Have strayed a bit far off topic. Might wanna reign it in a little now.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 03:48   #18100  |  Link
Dodgexander
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I have a relatively old display that accepts a 24Hz signal, but only when forced.

When I use it this way, there is clearly something not right. Flickering screen, more judder than the same film at 60Hz. So this leads me to believe that there is processing done by the television from 24>60 and it also made me wonder(although I didn't notice this far) that the same may apply with 50>60.

If it's the case most displays support the change, why is it that they offer technology that is suppose to eliminate judder when fed a 24Hz signal when the same displays supposedly natively display 24 Hz and why now do we have 120 Hz+ tv's??

I'm welcome to be proved wrong, but I'm quite sure the ability to accept 24Hz does not equal the actual television refreshing at that rate, but instead it being "converted" to the native refresh rate.

This is without taking into consideration the 23.9>24 issue.

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