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Old 31st March 2020, 19:03   #58961  |  Link
SirMaster
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Originally Posted by wolfman2791 View Post
The money for an Envy is just crazy. Nobody is going to pay that much.
People on AVS Forum have already ordered it.
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Old 31st March 2020, 19:06   #58962  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I think the whole crew needs to carefully think on this product.

Lumagen's sales are not that great. If they were, it wouldn't be so damn expensive. The fact that it has remained so expensive indicates the company is still doing low volume and has very little purchasing power to get the price of the device ready for mass-market.

Upscaling is only sort of important, not something people care about outside of enthusiasts. This feature will be increasingly less valued, as we are getting more 4K content. Then going to 8K, it's going to be even less important, because even if the TV did only bilinear, 4K content bilneared to 8K will still look pretty damn sharp

Madvr's most unique feature is the 3DLut.

Even in the case of Tonemapping, it's good, but as display hardware catches up, its benefit will again be eroded. It's also not so complicated a thing that the BIG-Hardware houses like Sony with their unlimited resources can't replicate. The Sony team sent people to the Madvr's demo booth for a reason, they're getting ready to bite you. It's not an act of comradery.

We're GOING Into a decade of Recession and potentially Depression.

Madshi with a small team can do all of the maintenance, and retail on a piece of PC software.

With hardware the only difference to their workload is an extra set of middlemen to cut in and manage..

With the Entire set of circumstances

It seems far more prudent to charge $50 a pop for Madvr PC version.

$50 You can sell that to almost anyone, $50 @ 1 million people is $50,000,000.

At $1000 a pop, you'd have to sell 50,000 units to match. Are there even 50,000 high end projectors sold each year. And how much is the middlemen's cut .

Can we even move these machines IN A RECESSION, when millenials have resorted to buying Soundbars instead of speaker systems. We're seeing a market for 75" TVs as low as $800.

The required consumer education to convince someone that a $1000 machine is going to make their image quality better is also enormous.

A great product with a bad business plan is still a treacherous road.
It may not be the best business plan, but I think we can agree that any of those plans is still better than what he has been doing for the last 10+ years, developing madvR for 0 money.
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Old 31st March 2020, 19:34   #58963  |  Link
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wait... i miss something i suppose!
madvr is closing?
i didnt check it for a while, work, family etc... whats happening?
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Old 31st March 2020, 20:12   #58964  |  Link
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This is why I wish people would stop with the fear mongering because everything madshi says gets taken WAY out of context. What he said is that currently it's not yet known what the future holds for madvr. Previously he's said that there will always be a free version of madvr, but, his tone recently has changed because he now has business partners. Some people are taking the comments he made about not being sure yet what the future holds as doom and gloom and madvr is closing down. That has NOT been determined! There's a few factors to consider. One, madshi wants to continue madvr on the PC for one very good reason....the amount of testing that people put into it. There's a business case to be made there that allowing PC users to test out new functionality (even if it's limited compared to what ends up in the Envy) makes sense. Do you really want your customers that are paying 10 grand on a box to be your beta testers for new features? Now it may come down to a decision that they have to charge a fee for madvr going forward. But again, nothing has been decided and madshi has said that when the time is right (I.E. AFTER the public launch of Envy) then he and his business partners will discuss it.

TLDR: NO ONE, not even madshi, knows what the future holds for the free version of madvr. Anyone claiming otherwise is fear mongering.
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Old 31st March 2020, 20:16   #58965  |  Link
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Agree 100%
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Old 31st March 2020, 22:49   #58966  |  Link
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Based on Madshi's post that Chros linked.

Paraphrase:
<<
Madshi's business partners do not want madshi to continue a full feature PC version, because , in the Partner's experience, Their Lumagen Hardware box sales TANKED , when a competing store began to sell Madvr equipped/specced HTPCs..

That is an extremely CLEAR statement. The MONEY when it comes to Hardware boxes REQUIRES Exclusivity, especially under their current pricing model.>>

I am merely stating that, given the Market and the certainty of the Recession, A Software Version will be easier to maintain, an easier sell, and doesn't require as much consumer education or live-middlemen.

It's not fear-mongering, we're following the money, that's the single thing a business responds to.
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 31st March 2020 at 22:56.
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Old 31st March 2020, 23:49   #58967  |  Link
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That's awesome selective quoting you got going on there but whatever. Continue to spread nonsense if you wish. I'm out.
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Old 1st April 2020, 02:04   #58968  |  Link
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No point in speculation, play the waiting game.
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Old 1st April 2020, 02:28   #58969  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
That's awesome selective quoting you got going on there but whatever. Continue to spread nonsense if you wish. I'm out.
What selective quoting. The partner stated very plainly and clearly their ACTUAL experience. Something that Actually happened, as the basis for why THEY do not want Madshi to maintain a full-featured PC version.
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Old 1st April 2020, 03:25   #58970  |  Link
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Right, and you completely SKIPPED the part where madshi said that it was not HIS wish and something that they are going to discuss after the Envy is released. But whatever. There's no arguing with you and you'll continue to spread stupid nonsense so as I said, I'm out.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:05   #58971  |  Link
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In term of what users want, which improvements you wish madVR could do in future ? I dont see that very clearly.
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:56   #58972  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
In term of what users want, which improvements you wish madVR could do in future ? I dont see that very clearly.
1. General software maintaining, compatibility with new OS builds and GPU drivers
2. NGU upscaling quality and speed improvements
3. HDR processing speed and quality improvements
4. Smooth motion improvements (Motion-Compensated Frame Interpolation)
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:15   #58973  |  Link
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Guys, why aren't you rather very glad about the super product we've been using for years now for free?

Personally i wouldn't mind paying something to keep it going but of course i'd be sad to see it discontinued.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:35   #58974  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
No point in speculation
Why not? It doesn't happen much here anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
NO ONE, not even madshi, knows what the future holds for the free version of madvr.
And that's the whole point of the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
It may not be the best business plan, but I think we can agree that any of those plans is still better than what he has been doing for the last 10+ years, developing madvR for 0 money.
Errr, donation could have been already enabled in the early years.
But we have to see that at that time it was 1 of 100,000s hobby projects out there beside of his regular job (whether it's full time or contracting). Let alone, if you sell something then you have to do support.
I think he didn't think about this at all, probably an idea came to do this business and earn money. But I agree with @tp4tissue, software is way more easier (even in Win10 time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
In term of what users want, which improvements you wish madVR could do in future ?
If we only stick to current HDR development, this is what comes to mind:
- HDR10+ / HLG passthrough support (I don't even mention DoVi )
- fixing bug in madtpg with HDR10 output when processing bar is hidden
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:38   #58975  |  Link
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Maybe the partners would be satisfied if the software version of madVR didn't include any HDR functionality (tone mapping in particular), and just did straight passthrough. None of madshi's test builds on AVS Forum are official, and so would not be supported in any way for those who managed to get a copy.

Madshi could then limit his madVR work to bug fixing and NGU improvements. It would in no way be in competition with or function as an alternative to Envy.

I think many of us here would support a $50 madVR version 1.0.
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Old 1st April 2020, 13:34   #58976  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Right, and you completely SKIPPED the part where madshi said that it was not HIS wish and something that they are going to discuss after the Envy is released. But whatever. There's no arguing with you.
There's no arguing with me, because you're wrong.

The partner has already made it clear what HAS Happened. This isn't mis-information, this is a stated fact.

The partner who sells lumagen got tanked sales when his competitor began selling madvr equipped / specced htpcs.

I've made no claim as to what will happen in the future.

I've only made the speculation that IF the team goes down the Hardware route, It is likely - but not definite- that we won't have full madvr features on software, or potentially a thoroughly discontinued pc side.

Finally, I've said, hardware @ those prices, is going to be a tough sell in the world wide Recession. Adding more middlemen makes hardware less profitable, and you'd be dependent on the sales/marketing capability or potentially lack there of, of that salesforce. Live-salesforce is also prone to regional saturation. there are only so many potential buyers in service locations.

We all want Madshi to succeed, that's why we're speculating, it is to supply consumer perspective/ information.
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Old 1st April 2020, 14:10   #58977  |  Link
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Originally Posted by kettyo View Post
Personally i wouldn't mind paying something to keep it going but of course i'd be sad to see it discontinued.
Same here. I'm ready to pay for madVR reasonable amount of money (up to 100$), but not sure that it's development will be continued.
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Old 1st April 2020, 14:18   #58978  |  Link
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He has only said that the new advanced features of the Envy might not be coming to madVR. That doesn't mean there won't be improvements to the basic functionality of madVR. Nor does it mean there can't be a paid version of madVR with a subset of Envy features.

There are over 8 million MPC-HC users which also have madVR installed, of which the majority is not yet actively using it. So there is a huge potential for a larger active userbase. And thus a lot of potential for promoting the madVR/Envy brand and generating revenue from pro licenses.

First step should not be to add more features. It should be to have an additional simplified view of the settings for the less tech-savvy users. And smarter automatic configuration.
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Old 1st April 2020, 14:49   #58979  |  Link
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There are over 8 million MPC-HC users which also have madVR installed, of which the majority is not yet actively using it.
clsid, are these numbers published anywhere ? the user for mpc and madvr
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Old 1st April 2020, 14:59   #58980  |  Link
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No. But based on facts I know of.
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