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Old 5th March 2013, 17:42   #17921  |  Link
dansrfe
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Isn't broadcast TV 59.94i which when taken to progressive is 29.976p? Why would anyone need to worry about 50p/60p?
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:48   #17922  |  Link
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Because doing 59.94i -> 29.97p throws away half of the temporal resolution.

59.94i -> 59.94p preserves motion smoothness.
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:50   #17923  |  Link
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Hi, my LCD monitor supports 1080i25 and 1080i29 . Should i add them to madvr and disable deinterlacing when are used or what?
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:57   #17924  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Probably at least 75% of broadcast TV.
Heh, where I live we still suffer from PAL stuff.

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Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about. I wasn't disputing anything to do with the tables you posted. I was disputing the assertion that the nVidia GTS 250 can handle Jinc3 AR for chroma and luma. It can't (without compromise anyway).
Oh I see. I misunderstood it then.

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Of course you could say "well no GPUs can handle those settings beyond a certain resolution" but I think a 1080p screen and the highest quality content widely available now (BDs & HDTV) provide a sensible test case.
The Highest setting was made based on a GTX 260 - which accordingly to the users of this forum it can handle what you mentioned without problems.

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@ Niyawa : Your guide makes no mention of deinterlacing. When using Cuvid, you have the option of GPU deinterlacing, and turning it off inside madVR or vice-versa.
I didn't really plan to mention it at all. Unless I'm missing something - most of the anime we watch are hardly interlaced at all. I'll see what I can do though.
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Last edited by Niyawa; 5th March 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 5th March 2013, 18:06   #17925  |  Link
DragonQ
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Anime wouldn't be interlaced. Animation is almost universally 12 or 24 fps.

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Hi, my LCD monitor supports 1080i25 and 1080i29 . Should i add them to madvr and disable deinterlacing when are used or what?
Depends. Is your monitor actually any good at deinterlacing? There's a decent chance that using your GPU to deinterlace would result in a better image (although GPU usage would go up).
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Old 5th March 2013, 18:09   #17926  |  Link
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Anime wouldn't be interlaced. Animation is almost universally 12 or 24 fps.
Maria Holic was apparently. The only one I've heard of though.
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Old 5th March 2013, 22:17   #17927  |  Link
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Maria Holic was apparently. The only one I've heard of though.
You probably just made a mistake checking the source
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Old 5th March 2013, 23:22   #17928  |  Link
DragonQ
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You probably just made a mistake checking the source
Maybe, but it's possible it was just badly mastered. An example I've come across is the recent Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers DVD box set - 30p film decently converted to 24p, combined with other 30p film badly converted to 24p so that some frames include combing (wtf), then combined with 60i graphics and post-processed in 60i (including slight slow-motion effects) so it's impossible to get smooth motion for every shot/scene. Then if you have the PAL version it's field-blended to 50i.

I'd love to remaster that from the original sources.
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Old 6th March 2013, 09:49   #17929  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarinka View Post
You probably just made a mistake checking the source
I could have made a mistake, but this fansub cleary states the source as interlaced.
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Old 6th March 2013, 11:37   #17930  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarinka View Post
You probably just made a mistake checking the source
I'm not sure about Tv sources, but one does come across interlaced Anime Dvds/BDs quite often.
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Last edited by Toku; 6th March 2013 at 11:42.
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Old 6th March 2013, 11:41   #17931  |  Link
DragonQ
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Tv source aren't usually interlaced afaik but one does come across interlaced Anime Dvds/BDs quite often.
As I said above, most TV is interlaced. Animation should be almost always progressive (same with films and dramas). Note, however, that just because something is broadcast or mastered for BD as "1080i", "576i", etc. doesn't mean it's interlaced.
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Old 6th March 2013, 16:46   #17932  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
Hello everyone,
I need your opinion on something I've found on a tutorial : they set different outputs for lav and ffdshow. I don't understand the point doing that. Why not set the same outputs ?


Link : http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/VideoSo...t_138425_1.htm
i think u really don't need FFDshow

LAV + MadVr can play anything u throw in it
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Old 6th March 2013, 17:29   #17933  |  Link
toniash
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i think u really don't need FFDshow

LAV + MadVr can play anything u throw in it
they use ffdshow to process image with AviSynth
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:38   #17934  |  Link
leeperry
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@madshi: Some of my posts regarding "Black Frame Insertion" were split into another thread, so please allow me to ask again: I know you answered me on that matter back in 2010, but we're now in 2013 and the 3D trend has pushed 120Hz support into a lot of displays so you can find many inexpensive projectors & flat screens that will support it by design(and in 1080p too, via DisplayPort/dual-link DVI connections). It's also fully supported on CRT for that matter

At 24fps, each frame takes 1000/24=41.67ms, but at 120Hz that's 1000/120=8ms, would that still be too long to insert one black frame every 2/4/5 frames or so?

You can even push 144Hz(6*24) on LCD/CRT and DLP these days, so an extra option to play around with BFI sequencing would be *SO* amazing

Just as a reminder:
Quote:
120hz lcd panels use a process called Black Frame Insertion (BFI) - I'll explain. As was mentioned, a standard lcd has a 60hz refresh rate meaning each frame is displayed for 16.6ms as opposed to a tube television/CRT where each part of the image is displayed for less than 1ms and is followed by blackness. Most of the ghosting in LCDs with a fast response time is caused by retinal persistence, (think about what happens when you look at a lightbulb and then look away) due to the fact that the image is displayed for so long. 120hz LCDs reduce retinal persistence by halving the time each image is displayed to 8.3ms, but they are still only capable of refreshing the actual image 60 times per second, and the other 60 frames are pure black, inserted after every "real" frame. The result is a smoother looking video.
Some more explanations can be found here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mon...ameters_4.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mon...ameters_5.html
Quote:
if the frame rate is doubled, the eye will fix frames with an interval of about 8.3 milliseconds rather than 16.7 milliseconds. It means the shift of the two images, old and new, relative to each other is twice shorter. From the eye’s point of view, the trail behind a moving object becomes two times shorter, too. Thus, a very high frame rate would give us the same picture as we see in real life, i.e. without any fuzziness.
Would providing BFI inside mVR make any sense now that we're in 2013? It sure would sound like the perfect place to do it to me.....and Sammy's butter-smooth MotionFlow in "crisp mode" is heavily based on this dirty trick IMO.

in advance for even considering it.

Last edited by leeperry; 7th March 2013 at 07:13.
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:46   #17935  |  Link
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I could have made a mistake, but this fansub cleary states the source as interlaced.
Don't believe everything you read. They are most likely just not clever/careful enough to distinguish between interlaced and telecined. The two are very different and the latter is what anime ends up as when it isn't progressive. There can be editing touches, effects, overlays (or screwups) that do something in interelaced mode on top of a progressive or telecined material, but those are just 'touches'... the underlying material stays telecine/progressive.

IIRC, in Full Metal Panic there were short 3d-rendered sequences that were truly interlaced (IIRC), but they were really short. Normal anime footage is made in progressive, for obvious reasons (and sometimes they do telecine from it).

Last edited by mandarinka; 7th March 2013 at 01:50.
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Old 7th March 2013, 03:14   #17936  |  Link
hdboy
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@madshi, could you add a keyboard shortcut to toggle (enable/disable) gamma processing? there's a shortcut but it only change gamma curve type. thank you.
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Old 7th March 2013, 06:59   #17937  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
At 24fps, each frame takes 1000/24=41.67ms, but at 120Hz that's 1000/120=8ms, would that still be too long to insert one black frame every 2/4/5 frames or so?
In my experience, 120Hz is still too low to do BFI, it adds a too strong strobing effect and reduces brightness significantly, the logic inside the TVs does that for far lower times, at up to 400Hz in some cases (not technically with BFI but typically controlled by the backlight)
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Old 7th March 2013, 07:10   #17938  |  Link
leeperry
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In my experience, 120Hz is still too low to do BFI, it adds a too strong strobing effect and reduces brightness significantly, the logic inside the TVs does that for far lower times, at up to 400Hz in some cases (not technically with BFI but typically controlled by the backlight)
Thought so, but how did you try exactly? On what gear and at what rate? I can imagine that a LCD panel with a slow response time could be problematic, but there's always that 480Hz subjective trick I mentioned earlier:
http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s

1 black frame out of 5 for 24p@120Hz or 1 out of 6 for 144Hz might do the trick....and it'd be a whole different story from 1 black frame out of 2(as some of those 120Hz LCD's seem to process), possibly with that nvidia trick or on a CRT/DLP. All those displays will react very differently and madshi's got more tricks than a clown's pocket, so I thought that it would be really nifty to play around with custom BFI in mVR
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Old 7th March 2013, 08:48   #17939  |  Link
Niyawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarinka View Post
Don't believe everything you read. They are most likely just not clever/careful enough to distinguish between interlaced and telecined. The two are very different and the latter is what anime ends up as when it isn't progressive. There can be editing touches, effects, overlays (or screwups) that do something in interelaced mode on top of a progressive or telecined material, but those are just 'touches'... the underlying material stays telecine/progressive.

IIRC, in Full Metal Panic there were short 3d-rendered sequences that were truly interlaced (IIRC), but they were really short. Normal anime footage is made in progressive, for obvious reasons (and sometimes they do telecine from it).
If I can't believe in everything I read, should I believe you? haha. I see. I'm not fully acquainced with interlaced material (since I don't usually watch it) so thanks for the heads up.
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Old 7th March 2013, 11:35   #17940  |  Link
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Greetings. I have done a fair bit of digging through the thread, but I'm still not completely sure which LAV video decoder settings I should be using with my AMD 6950. Basically, I'm confused about whether or not DXVA2 native works 100% with MadVR. Will I lose any functionality with it? I know copyback is fully functional, but i get dropped frames.

Also, are there any future plans to add sat/hue/luminance for individual colors and/or maybe multi-point greyscale? yCMS/dispcalgui/upsilonmixer currently seem to be a real headache to get accurate results with on my plasma. Being able to manually adjust greyscale/CMS while taking readings with Calman/HCFR would be godsend.

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