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9th September 2009, 14:04 | #1001 | Link |
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oh, i don't knew about aften -longhelp option.
EncWAVtoAC3 have one kind of "online help" when you let the mouse over the option but dissapear fast and you have to take the mouse there again...between this blinkings moments when the help appear and dissapear, me, with my magnific english forgot what i read and need to restart the lecture thousands times...lol better is print the -longhelp! i will do one short list(really short) with specifics questions. thanks tebasuna. |
9th September 2009, 14:18 | #1002 | Link | |
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Quote:
Edit: Ups I was to slow |
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9th September 2009, 16:45 | #1003 | Link | |
Cat
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Quote:
(AVStoDVD, MeGUI, etc.) I didn't want to bug you about it again. I appreciate the help and response, guys. I noticed Aften R843, happily tried out the EXE (MeGUI) and that's when I noticed the weird/slow behavior compared to R762. So I was looking for a slightly older build. (It's worth mentioning that I haven't reproduced weird R843 behavior again, though. ) |
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9th September 2009, 20:02 | #1004 | Link |
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all that i have is here, if you're interested in any or in all, i upload for you:
dates here appear as day/month/year aften_20060709(09/07/2006), aften_parallel(22/11/2006), aften-0.0.8.tar(19/07/2008), aften-0.01(11/07/2006), aften-0.02.tar(11/07/2006), aften-0.02(15/07/2006), aften-0.03(20/07/2006), aften-0.03-dev(23/04/2006), aften-0.03-dev new(30/07/2006), aften-0.03-dev(05/08/2006), aften-0.04(05/08/2006), Aften-0.04_rev13(06/08/2006), Aften-0.04_rev27(09/08/2006), aften-0.04kurtniose(06/08/2006), aften-0.04-win32-i586(05/08/2006), aften-0.04-win32-i686(05/08/2006, aften-0.05(09/01/2007), Aften-0.05_rev185(23/10/2006), Aften-0.05_rev211(28/10/2006), aften-0.05_rev214(30/10/2006), aften-0.05-win32, aften-current.tar(20/07/2006), aften-daily-080606.tar(06/08/2006), AftenGui 1.0,1.1,1.2,1.3,1.4. another folder(maybe can repeat some versions): aften_rev382(18/02/2007), aften_rev467(18/03/2007), aften-0.03(09/01/2007), aften-0.04(09/01/2007), aften-0.04-win32-i686(Justin)(10/01/2007), aften-0.05_rev216(09/01/2007), aften-0.05-win32(Justin)(10/01/2007), aften-svn-r216-win32-bin(Wisodev)(10/01/2007), aften-svn-r224-bin(Wisodev)(10/01/2007), aften-svn-r224-bin(09/01/2007), aften-svn-r433-win32-bin(27/02/2007). EncWAVtoAC3: seems that have all versions.(16 versions) |
2nd October 2009, 12:59 | #1005 | Link |
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Inexplicable Behaviour
Due to a strange failure in my BeSweet/BeLight combo, the wav file I was trying to encode to an ac3 file ended up with no sound. I needed a quick fix and went to FFMpegGUI (0.3) and to WavToAC3Enc (4.1). I tested both with some small wav files (Windows Startup Sound!) and only the FFMpeg version of the ac3 file would play (Using AC3 Filter 1.65, the latest one, and Media Player Classic 6.4.9.1).
Since I was pressed for time, I had to use FFMpeg to do my main file and build my dvd, but it is quite old (adding newer versions of FFMpeg.exe to the directory caused the same error in playing the WavToAC3Enc converted files, namely the "Cannot render the file" error from MPC) BeSweet/BeLight always worked for me before, I don't know if there was some strange error in the wav file or whether the files on my HD got corrupted, but I still need a way to do the conversion. I'm assuming that WavToAC3Enc is producing genuine ac3 files, what can I use to play them on my pc? I don't want to go through the trouble to create a physical dvd and find out after that it won't play correctly in my set top! Paul |
6th November 2009, 18:27 | #1009 | Link |
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an extra frame in dts->ac3 transcoding
hi everyone, i just used megui .1051 (aften r832 sse, nicaudio 2009-06-25, all the other updates too) to convert 5.1 dts to 5.1 ac3 (default aften settings, except bitrate 448).
as i understand the theoretical math for my audio stream should be: dts: 763872 frames x 512 samples/frame = 391102464 (2:15:47) to ac3: 254624 frames x 1536 samples/frame = 391102464 (2:15:47) now valex's ac3file filter property page shows one extra frame in the encoded ac3 stream (254625) and duration 2:15:48 is this normal or not? heres ac3file screenshots in attach: |
6th November 2009, 21:03 | #1010 | Link |
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Each time you encode to ac3 (commercial encoders also) a initial silence of 256 samples is padded before the source.
For a 48 KHz samplerate audio means a delay of 5.333 ms and the output is 5.333 ms long needing a frame more. You can avoid this delay usin the Aften parameter -pad 0
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BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder. |
6th November 2009, 23:03 | #1011 | Link |
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thank you very much tebasuna51 for the explanation. then i have one more question: now to do the best to sync this ac3back to video i'd need a negative audio delay of 6ms and mkvmerge does allow delays of multiples of 2ms. at the same time from what i remember audio delays can only work if they are multiples of frame size (32ms in this case), so telling mmg to use -6ms delay will only result in some unpredictable behavior right?
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7th November 2009, 02:43 | #1013 | Link |
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Help with settings please
I'm new to Aften, I'm using "WAV to AC3 Encoder 4.1" as the GUI, and boy are there a lot of settings.
I'm making 5.1 surround files. If I want to get the best sound possible, what should I be changing. I don't care how slow the encoder is, just best quality. Thanks. |
7th November 2009, 16:51 | #1015 | Link |
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hi tebasuna51, -pad 0 and behappy did the trick, thanx a lot.
perhaps you could kindly help me figure out one more thing: i converted this 5.1 dts to 5.1 ac3, i used Norm. to 100% and encoder defaults. now im playing these files using ac3filter and downmixed to stereo (old ac97 alc101 on this machine ). with exactly the same ac3filter settings and same mixer matrix, dts sounds significantly louder, why this loudness difference? actually i've had the same issue with all my previous dts->ac3 megui encodes. |
7th November 2009, 17:50 | #1016 | Link |
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Objective comparison of AC3 encoders
Source: DTS 1510 kbit/s 48kHz 6ch (Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End) Decoding into WAV (PCM 24 bit) — eac3to (libav). SNR measurement (bigger is better) and padding detection — CompAudio PEAQ measurement (bigger is better) — PQevalAudio Padding — delaycut WAV splitting — BeSplit Spectrograms — Sound Forge aften r832 (from MeGUI) Dolby Digital Encoder 6.2.2 (Sonic Foundry Soft Encode 1.0.19): output.DD6448.ac3 (448 kbps), output.DD6224.ac3 (224 kbps) Dolby Digital Encoder 7.0 (Sony Vegas Pro 9.0.563): output.DD7448.ac3 (448 kbps), output.DD7224.ac3 (224 kbps) Difference between aften_wide and aften_spec: - aften (wide) encodes full frequency range: -w 60 - aften (spec) encodes same frequency range as DD encoders: 448 kbps -> 20.34 kHz -> w=48 224 kbps -> 9.05 kHz -> w=8 Preprocessing in Dolby Encoder was disabled: Comparison: Code:
Name | SNR | PEAQ 448 kbps, ch L DD7 | 26.297| -0.226 DD6 | 26.268| -0.222 aften | 20.653| -0.478 aften (spec) | 18.504| -0.288 aften (wide) | 19.368| -1.539 Aften gets less points than proprietary Dolby Digital Encoder (here referred to as "DD") both in SNR and PEAQ. DD7 has slightly better results than DD6. Average frequency graphs: As you can see, aften has bigger frequency cutoff by default than DD. With "-w 48" (aften_spec) it matches DD and more than that, it saves high frequency average energy closer to original. But in all three cases aften has higher energy on low frequencies then original track. DD6 vs DD7: Time-frequency spectrograms Original: aften_wide: aften_spec: DD7: DD6: 448 kbps, ch C DD7 | 26.039| -0.211 DD6 | 26.003| -0.208 aften | 20.349| -0.379 aften (spec) | 18.274| -0.263 aften (wide) | 19.108| -0.975 Average frequency graphs: Time-frequency spectrograms Original: aften_spec: DD7: 224 kbps, ch L DD7 | 21.187| -2.266 DD6 | 20.845| -2.275 aften | 15.009| -2.584 aften (spec) | 14.830| -2.596 aften (wide) | 6.6604| -3.527 Average frequency graphs: 224 kbps, ch C DD7 | 19.303| -2.227 DD6 | 19.213| -2.239 aften | 14.542| -2.601 aften (spec) | 14.378| -2.583 aften (wide) | 6.5879| -3.139 448 kbps, all channels (SNR only) aften L | 20.653 || DD7 L | 26.297 aften R | 20.525 || DD7 R | 26.490 aften C | 20.349 || DD7 C | 26.039 aften SL | 21.137 || DD7 SL | 25.819 aften SR | 21.003 || DD7 SR | 25.541 aften LFE | 22.176 || DD7 LFE | -0.039484 || DD6 LFE | 29.818 When running tests on all channels this strange problem with LFE was discovered. I have rechecked everything several times, but DD7 was still getting bad results on LFE. As you see DD6 hasn't this problem. More tests required to check this out. Average frequency graphs (LFE): Time-frequency spectrograms (LFE) Original: aften_spec: DD7: Code:
aften.exe -b 448 -pad 0 -w 60 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften448_wide.ac3 aften.exe -b 448 -pad 0 -w 48 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften448_spec.ac3 aften.exe -b 448 -pad 0 -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften448.ac3 aften.exe -b 224 -pad 0 -w 60 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften224_wide.ac3 aften.exe -b 224 -pad 0 -w 8 -s on -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften224_spec.ac3 aften.exe -b 224 -pad 0 -acmod 7 -lfe 1 -readtoeof 1 input.wav output.aften224.ac3 C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448_wide.ac3 output.aften448_wide.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448_spec.ac3 output.aften448_spec.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448.ac3 output.aften448.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften224_wide.ac3 output.aften224_wide.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften224_spec.ac3 output.aften224_spec.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften224.ac3 output.aften224.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD6448.ac3 output.DD6448.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD6224.ac3 output.DD6224.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD7448.ac3 output.DD7448.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD7224.ac3 output.DD7224.wavs del output.*.R.wav output.*.LFE.wav output.*.SL.wav output.*.SR.wav delaycut.exe -start 5.33 -out input.L.pad256.wav input.L.wav delaycut.exe -start 5.33 -out input.C.pad256.wav input.C.wav delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.L.pad636.wav input.L.wav delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.C.pad636.wav input.C.wav C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_wide.L.wav > output.aften448_wide.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_wide.C.wav > output.aften448_wide.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_spec.L.wav > output.aften448_spec.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_spec.C.wav > output.aften448_spec.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448.L.wav > output.aften448.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448.C.wav > output.aften448.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_wide.L.wav > output.aften224_wide.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_wide.C.wav > output.aften224_wide.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_spec.L.wav > output.aften224_spec.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_spec.C.wav > output.aften224_spec.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224.L.wav > output.aften224.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224.C.wav > output.aften224.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6448.L.wav > output.DD6448.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6448.C.wav > output.DD6448.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6224.L.wav > output.DD6224.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6224.C.wav > output.DD6224.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7448.L.wav > output.DD7448.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7448.C.wav > output.DD7448.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7224.L.wav > output.DD7224.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7224.C.wav > output.DD7224.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_wide.L.wav > output.aften448_wide.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_wide.C.wav > output.aften448_wide.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448_spec.L.wav > output.aften448_spec.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448_spec.C.wav > output.aften448_spec.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448.L.wav > output.aften448.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448.C.wav > output.aften448.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_wide.L.wav > output.aften224_wide.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_wide.C.wav > output.aften224_wide.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224_spec.L.wav > output.aften224_spec.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224_spec.C.wav > output.aften224_spec.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften224.L.wav > output.aften224.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften224.C.wav > output.aften224.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6448.L.wav > output.DD6448.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6448.C.wav > output.DD6448.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.L.pad256.wav output.DD6224.L.wav > output.DD6224.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 256: input.C.pad256.wav output.DD6224.C.wav > output.DD6224.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7448.L.wav > output.DD7448.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7448.C.wav > output.DD7448.C.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7224.L.wav > output.DD7224.L.PEAQ.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\PQevalAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7224.C.wav > output.DD7224.C.PEAQ.txt Measurement SNR of different channels: delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.R.pad636.wav input.R.wav delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.SL.pad636.wav input.SL.wav delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.SR.pad636.wav input.SR.wav delaycut.exe -start 13.25 -out input.LFE.pad636.wav input.LFE.wav C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.aften448.ac3 output.aften448.all.wavs C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD7448.ac3 output.DD7448.all.wavs C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.L.wav output.aften448.all.L.wav > output.aften448.all.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.R.wav output.aften448.all.R.wav > output.aften448.all.R.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.C.wav output.aften448.all.C.wav > output.aften448.all.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.SL.wav output.aften448.all.SL.wav > output.aften448.all.SL.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.SR.wav output.aften448.all.SR.wav > output.aften448.all.SR.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe input.LFE.wav output.aften448.all.LFE.wav > output.aften448.all.LFE.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.L.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.L.wav > output.DD7448.all.L.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.R.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.R.wav > output.DD7448.all.R.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.C.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.C.wav > output.DD7448.all.C.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.SL.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.SL.wav > output.DD7448.all.SL.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.SR.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.SR.wav > output.DD7448.all.SR.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 636: input.LFE.pad636.wav output.DD7448.all.LFE.wav > output.DD7448.all.LFE.comp.txt C:\comparison\eac3to\eac3to.exe output.DD6448.ac3 output.DD6448.all.wavs C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -l 256: input.LFE.pad256.wav output.DD6448.all.LFE.wav > output.DD6448.all.LFE.comp.txt Padding detection: BeSplit.exe -core( -input input.L.wav -prefix input.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 ) BeSplit.exe -core( -input output.aften448.L.wav -prefix output.aften448.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 ) BeSplit.exe -core( -input output.DD6448.L.wav -prefix output.DD6448.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 ) BeSplit.exe -core( -input output.DD7448.L.wav -prefix output.DD7448.L.cut -type wav ) -split( 0 1 ) C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -d 0:1030 input.L.cut01.wav output.aften448.L.cut01.wav > output.aften448.L.cut01.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -d 0:1030 input.L.cut01.wav output.DD6448.L.cut01.wav > output.DD6448.L.cut01.comp.txt C:\comparison\AFsp\CompAudio.exe -d 0:1030 input.L.cut01.wav output.DD7448.L.cut01.wav > output.DD7448.L.cut01.comp.txt 1) There is a simple method of objective audio comparison that anybody can use. 2) Aften has much worse SNR than DD. Even 224 kbps AC3 encoded with DD beats aften 448 kbps in SNR. 3) When using PEAQ metric (which takes into account some psychoacoustic effects) aften is closer to DD, but still worse. 4) If you want to have frequency cutoff similar to DD encoders, you should use w=48 for 448 kbps and w=8 for 224 kbps. 5) Aften saves high frequency average energy closer to original. But it has higher energy on low frequencies then original track. 6) Aften has better SNR on surround channels than on front. With DD it is inversely. 7) DD7 has very bad SNR on LFE channel. More tests should be done on this issue. P.S. It was originally written in Russian, so feel free to correct spelling. Last edited by Abradoks; 8th November 2009 at 23:52. |
8th November 2009, 02:37 | #1019 | Link | |
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Quote:
edit: also, could you provide some small snippets of the DD-encoded files so that I can see what encoding features and params they use to get the better PEAQ and SNR values? Last edited by jruggle; 8th November 2009 at 02:41. |
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8th November 2009, 18:39 | #1020 | Link | ||
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Quote:
Code:
3/2 (L, C, R, l, r) Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz) 640, 576, 512, 448 48 56 60 384 40 44 60 320 32 36 60 256 20 24 44 224 8 12 28 2/2 (L, R, l, r); 3/1 (L, C, R, l) Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz) 640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320 48 56 60 256 32 36 60 224 24 28 48 192 12 16 32 2/1 (L, R, l); 3/0 (L, C, R) Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz) 640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320 48 56 60 256 40 44 60 224 32 36 60 192 24 28 48 160 16 20 40 128 0 4 20 2/0 (L, R) Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz) 640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320, 256, 224, 192 48 56 60 160 32 36 60 128 24 28 52 112 20 24 44 96 0 4 20 1/0 (C) Bitrate w (48 kHz) w (44.1 kHz) w (32 kHz) 640, 576, 512, 448, 384, 320, 256, 224, 192, 160, 128, 112, 96 48 56 60 80 32 36 60 64 16 20 40 56 12 16 32 Quote:
jruggle, you can send me any sample you want to be encoded with DD plugin. yesgrey3, honai, are you kidding? There is no difference what source do you take if it is complex enough for current encoding. And that 1510 kbps DTS is hard enough to encode in 448 kbps AC3, as you can see from SNR. Also I was trying to make a real life comparison, so I didn't try to encode any synthetic tracks. Nevertheless you can run test by yourself on any other source. It's not hard if you have DD encoder. I don't think that you will get different results. |
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