HD-DVD goes beyond 50GB with new disc

Seraphic- · 12th January 2007, 21:17

What does this mean for the next gen format war?

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/hddvdgoe...thnewdisc/4260

check · 13th January 2007, 07:28

I guess not much. I doubt many studio discs will need to use over 50gb. For a 48mbit total stream bandwidth (ie, 6mb/sec), you can fit in excess of 2hrs into 50gb already.
What it might do however, is reduce manufacturing costs if this development can be applied to lower costs for smaller discs.

zambelli · 13th January 2007, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by check

I guess not much. I doubt many studio discs will need to use over 50gb. For a 48mbit total stream bandwidth (ie, 6mb/sec), you can fit in excess of 2hrs into 50gb already.

I thought one of the main advantages BluRay was touting was its superior capacity. So wouldn't this effectively eliminate that advantage?

check · 13th January 2007, 12:22

Yes. Large capacity may have been an attraction to studios in earlier days, but with the ability of h264/VC1 to squeeze movies into far smaller spaces than previously thought, and the cost of higher capacity discs ratcheting up in a not so attractive manner, I personally suspect 30gb discs will remain the size du jour for a while yet. Please note however, two things:
o multilayer capacity is more or less meaningless in the computer market. Single layer burning is all that will be available for a long time, just as with DVD. A caveat on top of this caveat: the computer disc market is rather small compared to the TV playback area
o BD has other unique advantages, the main one being better DRM (whether the adaptive layer is used or not will remain to be seen).

reepa · 13th January 2007, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by zambelli

I thought one of the main advantages BluRay was touting was its superior capacity. So wouldn't this effectively eliminate that advantage?

The article didn't mention whether this new type of disc is compatible with current and past hardware. If not, then what prevents Blu-Ray from announcing an incompatible new disc type in the future? If it is, then it's a great development for HD-DVD.

foxyshadis · 14th January 2007, 03:28

The standards do. If it's incompatible, it's not HD-DVD/Bluray.

Even if it was allowed, it would either be ignored by the market, or split the format in two (and condemn it to oblivion in such a heated format war). That's never good for anyone in the format's ecosystem, which is why formats are so rigidly defined.

Doom9 · 14th January 2007, 03:35

Quote:

Single layer burning is all that will be available for a long time, just as with DVD.

You are mistaken about that one.. I can pick up dual layer BD-R discs in local shops, dual layer HD DVD-R discs are coming in the coming months, iirc there are Blu-ray recorders that can handle dual layer and the appropriate HD DVD burners are on the way, too.

womfalcs7 · 14th January 2007, 16:14

Blu-ray is at 200 GB now...

Ryokurin · 15th January 2007, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by womfalcs7

Blu-ray is at 200 GB now...

It exists as a Technology demostration No one has said that BR disks will be released at that size commercially. This HD-DVD standard is likely to be added to the specs.

Sharktooth · 15th January 2007, 03:19

bye bye Blu-Ray...

joseph5 · 15th January 2007, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by check

I guess not much. I doubt many studio discs will need to use over 50gb. For a 48mbit total stream bandwidth (ie, 6mb/sec), you can fit in excess of 2hrs into 50gb already.

It could be useful if they release tv series in HD-DVD/Bluray.

shae · 16th January 2007, 13:57

Toying with more and more layers is done by both camps, but I don't think either one will use more than 2 layers with the exception of meaningless tech demos.

And since when studios are concerned with quality? How many current DVD9s are actually full? I suspect they will happily use single layer HD/BD discs whenever possible, unless it's extremely noticeable.

arfster · 16th January 2007, 20:11

Pretty much nobody uses single layer HD-DVD, cos 15GB leaves little room for extras, lossless audio, multiple sound tracks etc. You could do it if it was needed certainly (eg 20mbit for 100 minutes with no extras), but the fact nobody is seems to suggest there's minimal cost benefit.

12th January 2007, 21:17	#1 \| Link
Seraphic- Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 698	HD-DVD goes beyond 50GB with new disc What does this mean for the next gen format war? http://www.dvdtown.com/news/hddvdgoe...thnewdisc/4260

13th January 2007, 07:28	#2 \| Link
check phjbdpcrjlj2sb3h Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Western Australia Posts: 1,691	I guess not much. I doubt many studio discs will need to use over 50gb. For a 48mbit total stream bandwidth (ie, 6mb/sec), you can fit in excess of 2hrs into 50gb already. What it might do however, is reduce manufacturing costs if this development can be applied to lower costs for smaller discs. __________________ CCCP \| MeWiki \| techouse's x264 builds \| Kovensky's mplayer builds

13th January 2007, 12:22	#4 \| Link
check phjbdpcrjlj2sb3h Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Western Australia Posts: 1,691	Yes. Large capacity may have been an attraction to studios in earlier days, but with the ability of h264/VC1 to squeeze movies into far smaller spaces than previously thought, and the cost of higher capacity discs ratcheting up in a not so attractive manner, I personally suspect 30gb discs will remain the size du jour for a while yet. Please note however, two things: o multilayer capacity is more or less meaningless in the computer market. Single layer burning is all that will be available for a long time, just as with DVD. A caveat on top of this caveat: the computer disc market is rather small compared to the TV playback area o BD has other unique advantages, the main one being better DRM (whether the adaptive layer is used or not will remain to be seen). __________________ CCCP \| MeWiki \| techouse's x264 builds \| Kovensky's mplayer builds

15th January 2007, 03:19	#10 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	bye bye Blu-Ray... __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

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14th January 2007, 03:28	#6 \| Link
foxyshadis Angel of Night Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tangled in the silks Posts: 9,559	The standards do. If it's incompatible, it's not HD-DVD/Bluray. Even if it was allowed, it would either be ignored by the market, or split the format in two (and condemn it to oblivion in such a heated format war). That's never good for anyone in the format's ecosystem, which is why formats are so rigidly defined.

14th January 2007, 16:14	#8 \| Link
womfalcs7 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1	Blu-ray is at 200 GB now...

16th January 2007, 13:57	#12 \| Link
shae Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 397	Toying with more and more layers is done by both camps, but I don't think either one will use more than 2 layers with the exception of meaningless tech demos. And since when studios are concerned with quality? How many current DVD9s are actually full? I suspect they will happily use single layer HD/BD discs whenever possible, unless it's extremely noticeable.

16th January 2007, 20:11	#13 \| Link
arfster Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 169	Pretty much nobody uses single layer HD-DVD, cos 15GB leaves little room for extras, lossless audio, multiple sound tracks etc. You could do it if it was needed certainly (eg 20mbit for 100 minutes with no extras), but the fact nobody is seems to suggest there's minimal cost benefit.