madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) - Page 645

Mosu · 25th March 2012, 19:15

Feature request: an option to disable the global hotkeys.

I know you have them enabled because there are situations in which the player is not the active window for some kind of reason. I've also read that you have vague plans to make the hotkeys configurable sometime. I'd ask you to add an option to at least disable them completely. I don't use them -- at all! Don't have to, maybe never will.However, I'm programming in Emacs at the same time, and Ctrl-R and Ctrl-J are both often used keys that I simply cannot use while madVR is running.

Thanks.

Budtz · 25th March 2012, 19:21

Quote:

In general with NVIDIA GPUs, Windowed > FSE (old path) >>>> FSE (new path).
In general with ATI GPUs, FSE (new path) >> FSE (old path) >>> Windowed.

I this really correct? could Nev or Mad chime in here?

kalston · 25th March 2012, 19:39

For me (GTX 275, latest WHQL drivers) it's old FSE >> Windowed (I always have Aero disabled if that matters) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new FSE (even when messing around with all combinations of settings it's never glitch free for me).

TheShadowRunner · 25th March 2012, 19:47

I think this has less to do with the videocard brand than it has to do with the OS.
On XP, old FSE = FSE > Windowed, but mostly all provide rock solid smoothness
Although of course FSE is rock solid with the certitude it won't mess-up during the entire length of the movie.
Windowed on the other hand.. i've seen tearing once or twice.

cyberbeing · 25th March 2012, 21:00

For myself on WinXP and Win7 (Aero disabled), my NVIDIA GPUs behaved identically. Using my custom flush settings with Windowed Mode + ReClock was > ALL, offering perfect smoothness, and never tearing. FSE (old) would occasionally stutter on pans. FSE (new) was nearly completely unusable.

At this point I'd more suspect that there are just some odd-ball NVIDIA architectures, namely G8x & G9x which behave quite differently compared to G7x, GT2xx, GF1xx with madVR. That's just speculation though, but it's as good a guess as any. After-all, you have a G8x, and madshi was using a G9x (9600 GT) as his NVIDIA test GPU when he was coding the FSE modes (old and new).

It still continues to amaze me how often people come up with completely different madVR settings they find work the best. Too many unknown variables, not enough data.

Razoola · 26th March 2012, 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budtz

I this really correct? could Nev or Mad chime in here?

I think in a way it is (at least the nvidia part), it all depends on your flush settings. Dont flush, Dont flush, Dont flush,Flush and wait (sleep) is probably the best settings with the new render path, on my system set like that the new and old paths preform the same for my nvidia cards.

DragonQ · 26th March 2012, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansrfe

I realize this may be off topic a bit but does anyone know what are the most accurate timings I can input for 23.976Hz on nvidia cpl? I find it weird that nvidia reports that my tv supports 23Hz, 24Hz, and 60Hz yet the 23Hz is more like 23.96Hz when using the default timings.

"23 Hz" is supposed to be 23.976 Hz.

As for settings for exact timings, it depends on so many factors it's not worth suggesting anything. You just have to play around with it.

chros · 26th March 2012, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

In my experience, NVIDIA GPUs are unable to use the default FSE (new path) effectively, ...
... stuttering w/o glitches (frames silently dropped which are not reported by madVR).

I'm interested in this. Is it can be true?
Because if it's true there's no way to confirm that the playback is rock solid or not ...

nevcairiel · 26th March 2012, 21:10

I get perfect playback on my NVIDIA with the new FSE, it just needs some patience to find the proper settings. This is only on Win7, and only with Fermi series cards. The only real problem with the new FSE is now with the new 300 series driver where it just doesn't work at all, but before that it worked just perfectly fine.
Windowed Mode without Aero would show Tearing during the first few minutes of a movie until it properly locked onto the VSync, with Aero it worked mostly fine. Never really compared old FSE because new worked just fine for me.

Of course there is always the possibility of some hidden issues (possibly also repeated frames, which madVR doesn't track), but i also had my fair share of problems with madVR on an ATI/AMD system, so its not really the universal solution to just switch.

chros · 27th March 2012, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

I get perfect playback on my NVIDIA with the new FSE, it just needs some patience to find the proper settings. This is only on Win7, and only with Fermi series cards.

Nev, can you tell us what are your settings?
(player, splitter, decoder, aero on/off, driver settings (default/custom), madvr settings)
Thank you!

cyberbeing · 27th March 2012, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by chros

Because if it's true there's no way to confirm that the playback is rock solid or not ...

I've always confirmed if playback is rock solid enough through extensive testing with various panning scenes using my eyes. Even with madVR showing perfect stats, you can still have stuttering with the wrong Flush and other advanced madVR tweaks. Other times you can have perfect stats and never get things smooth. And yet other times you can find two settings, neither of which noticably stutter, yet one is still feels subjectively smoother than the other on certain panning scenes. I'd always recommend using Reclock give you a better chance of getting things perfect, since it can resolve various issue resulting from a bad reference audio clock (which D3D and madVR depend on), or a less than perfect refresh rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Windowed Mode without Aero would show Tearing during the first few minutes of a movie until it properly locked onto the VSync

I've used both GTX470 and GT440 DDR5 Fermi cards, and neither produced any tearing on Win7 with Aero disabled, as long as 'After Last Render Step' was set to Flush or Flush & Wait. You make it sound like the combination of your GPU and Monitor/TV is having trouble locking in the refresh rates. Do you see madVR's refresh rate reading fluctuate a lot for the first few minutes?

Who really knows, it could just be variations among different CPU architectures and motherboard chipsets, stranger things have happened. DPC and other types of latency can certainly vary widely from computer to computer. I'd also expect QueryPerformanceCounter readings could show slight accuracy differences among different architectures, especially in cases of bad BIOS/Chipset implementations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

i also had my fair share of problems with madVR on an ATI/AMD system, so its not really the universal solution to just switch.

I have as well. With my ATI 5750 1GB, I haven't been able to get it 100% stable with anything but FSE (new path). Windowed mode has intermittent stuttering no matter what settings I use. All things considered, I still favor NVIDIA cards for use with madVR.

Note: In case it's noteworthy, I have never used HDMI or 23.976Hz refresh rate on any of my setups. Always DVI and higher multiple refresh rates like 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, 120Hz.

nevcairiel · 27th March 2012, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

I've used both GTX470 and GT440 DDR5 Fermi cards, and neither produced any tearing on Win7 with Aero disabled, as long as 'After Last Render Step' was set to Flush or Flush & Wait.

I probably didn't try those flushing options, tbh i only tried without Aero for a brief period when refresh rate switching would cause the compositor fps to be stuck at a wrong value, which was fixed now.

Regarding refresh rates, i did observe that running on high refresh rates increases the chance of playback problems with some configurations. 24p playback at 23.976Hz seems mostly fine, at the same time playing 25p at 50Hz had some minor glitches in the same config.
Doubt HDMI vs DVI would make such a big difference, but then my TV doesn't have DVI.

magnusr · 27th March 2012, 10:38

My GTX 680 findings with NVIDIA WHQL driver 301.10. Windows 7 X64 SP1. Connected to 63" Samsung Plasma using hdmi.

Had to do the inf fix for 0-255 rgb before install.

Madvr gave a blank picture (all black) if "use a separate device for presentation (Vista / Windows 7 only)" was checked. When that was unchecked everything worked as normal

shaolin95 · 27th March 2012, 17:36

So exclusively for Image Quality, if I am running 1080p bluray files, there is no IQ difference using an ATI, NVIDIA card or CPU even for as long as all settings are the same? I am trying to understand if the benefits of using a Nvidia card with hardware decoding is mostly for applying filters and the likes when upconverting files.
Thanks

sneaker_ger · 27th March 2012, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaolin95

So exclusively for Image Quality, if I am running 1080p bluray files, there is no IQ difference using an ATI, NVIDIA card or CPU even for as long as all settings are the same?

Correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaolin95

I am trying to understand if the benefits of using a Nvidia card with hardware decoding is mostly for applying filters and the likes when upconverting files.

Using hardware decoding has no impact on image quality.

shaolin95 · 27th March 2012, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneaker_ger

Correct.

Using hardware decoding has no impact on image quality.

Thank so since with my current setup I am using madvr but with the dxva native as my card cannot run copyback, I am still getting the most of it?
I was about to get a gtx460 for cuvid but if I am not going to improve my IQ at all then no point since performance wise, it runs perfectly smooth at ~47.956 for my projector.
Thanks

nevcairiel · 27th March 2012, 20:47

If you use DXVA native, then you don't use madVR.
In that case, using madVR could potentially improve quality (on 1080p the difference is much smaller then when upscaling, though)

shaolin95 · 27th March 2012, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

If you use DXVA native, then you don't use madVR.
In that case, using madVR could potentially improve quality (on 1080p the difference is much smaller then when upscaling, though)

A darn it, so I am not really using it at all

Ok well, I do have a gts 250 on my main computer. I can put it on my HTPC to see if it makes a difference as a test.
Thanks for the information!

sneaker_ger · 27th March 2012, 21:01

Note that when you choose "DXVA2 (native)" in LAV Video, you will still use madVR. It's just that LAV will automatically fall back to pure software decoding. Players like MPC-HC allow you to see which filters are actually being used (if you can't identify the distinctive madVR OSD). Also madVR will display a tray icon when in use by default.

shaolin95 · 27th March 2012, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneaker_ger

Note that when you choose "DXVA2 (native)" in LAV Video, you will still use madVR. It's just that LAV will automatically fall back to pure software decoding. Players like MPC-HC allow you to see which filters are actually being used (if you can't identify the distinctive madVR OSD). Also madVR will display a tray icon when in use by default.

Yes that was confusing me because I do see madvr icon on the tray and all that.

25th March 2012, 19:15	#12881 \| Link
Mosu MKVToolNix author Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Braunschweig, Germany Posts: 4,281	Feature request: an option to disable the global hotkeys. I know you have them enabled because there are situations in which the player is not the active window for some kind of reason. I've also read that you have vague plans to make the hotkeys configurable sometime. I'd ask you to add an option to at least disable them completely. I don't use them -- at all! Don't have to, maybe never will.However, I'm programming in Emacs at the same time, and Ctrl-R and Ctrl-J are both often used keys that I simply cannot use while madVR is running. Thanks. __________________ Latest MKVToolNix is v83.0 If I ever ask you to upload something, please use my file server.

25th March 2012, 19:39	#12883 \| Link
kalston Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 164	For me (GTX 275, latest WHQL drivers) it's old FSE >> Windowed (I always have Aero disabled if that matters) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new FSE (even when messing around with all combinations of settings it's never glitch free for me). Last edited by kalston; 25th March 2012 at 19:42.

25th March 2012, 19:47	#12884 \| Link
TheShadowRunner Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 399	I think this has less to do with the videocard brand than it has to do with the OS. On XP, old FSE = FSE > Windowed, but mostly all provide rock solid smoothness Although of course FSE is rock solid with the certitude it won't mess-up during the entire length of the movie. Windowed on the other hand.. i've seen tearing once or twice. __________________ XP SP3 / Geforce 8500 / Zoom Player Last edited by Guest; 9th June 2012 at 01:11. Reason: 4

26th March 2012, 21:10	#12889 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	I get perfect playback on my NVIDIA with the new FSE, it just needs some patience to find the proper settings. This is only on Win7, and only with Fermi series cards. The only real problem with the new FSE is now with the new 300 series driver where it just doesn't work at all, but before that it worked just perfectly fine. Windowed Mode without Aero would show Tearing during the first few minutes of a movie until it properly locked onto the VSync, with Aero it worked mostly fine. Never really compared old FSE because new worked just fine for me. Of course there is always the possibility of some hidden issues (possibly also repeated frames, which madVR doesn't track), but i also had my fair share of problems with madVR on an ATI/AMD system, so its not really the universal solution to just switch. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

27th March 2012, 20:47	#12897 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	If you use DXVA native, then you don't use madVR. In that case, using madVR could potentially improve quality (on 1080p the difference is much smaller then when upscaling, though) __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

25th March 2012, 21:00	#12885 \| Link
cyberbeing Broadband Junkie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,859	For myself on WinXP and Win7 (Aero disabled), my NVIDIA GPUs behaved identically. Using my custom flush settings with Windowed Mode + ReClock was > ALL, offering perfect smoothness, and never tearing. FSE (old) would occasionally stutter on pans. FSE (new) was nearly completely unusable. At this point I'd more suspect that there are just some odd-ball NVIDIA architectures, namely G8x & G9x which behave quite differently compared to G7x, GT2xx, GF1xx with madVR. That's just speculation though, but it's as good a guess as any. After-all, you have a G8x, and madshi was using a G9x (9600 GT) as his NVIDIA test GPU when he was coding the FSE modes (old and new). It still continues to amaze me how often people come up with completely different madVR settings they find work the best. Too many unknown variables, not enough data.

27th March 2012, 10:38	#12893 \| Link
magnusr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 67	My GTX 680 findings with NVIDIA WHQL driver 301.10. Windows 7 X64 SP1. Connected to 63" Samsung Plasma using hdmi. Had to do the inf fix for 0-255 rgb before install. Madvr gave a blank picture (all black) if "use a separate device for presentation (Vista / Windows 7 only)" was checked. When that was unchecked everything worked as normal

27th March 2012, 17:36	#12894 \| Link
shaolin95 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 293	So exclusively for Image Quality, if I am running 1080p bluray files, there is no IQ difference using an ATI, NVIDIA card or CPU even for as long as all settings are the same? I am trying to understand if the benefits of using a Nvidia card with hardware decoding is mostly for applying filters and the likes when upconverting files. Thanks

27th March 2012, 21:01	#12899 \| Link
sneaker_ger Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,565	Note that when you choose "DXVA2 (native)" in LAV Video, you will still use madVR. It's just that LAV will automatically fall back to pure software decoding. Players like MPC-HC allow you to see which filters are actually being used (if you can't identify the distinctive madVR OSD). Also madVR will display a tray icon when in use by default.