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Old 22nd March 2016, 12:15   #881  |  Link
r0lZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
MediaInfo is not looking like this?
Code:
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Stereo High@L4.1 / High@L4.1
MultiView_Count                          : 2
Damn, you are right! The video is Stereo, with 2 views.
I have been fooled by the way the video streams are presented (as a single AVC stream, but stereo).
I will now see what I can do with tsMuxeR to extract the two streams. (I need them as two different streams, not a single interleaved stream.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Well, something seems to have been improved:
The interleaved stereoscopic .mkv produced by MakeMKV can now be demuxed with tsMuxeR (2.6.12) and split into separate .264 (=avc) and .mvc streams.
It's exactly what I need.
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Old 22nd March 2016, 22:53   #882  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
It's exactly what I need.
Yes, for that I show you the attached image in http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...66#post1760566
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Old 23rd March 2016, 09:06   #883  |  Link
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Yes. thanks. But finding what's in the MKV is not the most difficult task. Currently, BD3D2MK3D assumes that the information is stored in a BD structure, and modifying everything is really not easy. I'm still not sure I'll do it. But I am trying...
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Old 23rd March 2016, 09:15   #884  |  Link
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I imagine that the extra step could be to remux the .mkv into a BD structure or .iso using tsMuxer, and from there onwards continue with BD3D2MK3D "as usual".
But probably not so easy and straightforward, as I imagine ....
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Old 23rd March 2016, 09:41   #885  |  Link
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It's not a bad idea, and yes, it's (relatively) straightforward. At least, it's much easier than having to change my code each time it is dependent of the input type. But IMO, doing what you suggest will ruin the advantage of integrating the 3D MKV input in BD3D2MK3D. That will require to write again a very large file on disc, and therefore much disc space and much time. Also, everybody can do that with the tsMuxeR GUI, and the advantage of doing it directly with BD3D2MK3D is minimal. So, if I do the job of integrating the MKV input, it must be processed directly, without the additional step of the ISO creation.

However, I remember your idea, but just for a small part of the ISO. Currently, many necessary values are taken from the MPLS file, and of course, that doesn't work for the MKV input. When a MKV is opened, I may generate internally a fake MPLS with the necessary info, just to not have to change the code everywhere. The current code will fetch the values from the fake MPLS when they are needed, just like it does with a real BD or ISO. But I'm still not sure that will be sufficient to avoid most difficulties...

Also, there are two well known problems with the 3D MKV format: the left/right view first flag and the 3D-plane assignments are lost. I'm still not sure for the audio delays. All that values are normally in the MPLS file, but I need a way to either compute/deduce/retrieve them automatically, or I need a GUI to input them from the user.
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Old 24th March 2016, 11:15   #886  |  Link
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I did some tests with MakeMKV and tsMuxeR, and I have some problems with the detection of the audio tracks.

When the original audio is DTS-HD Master Audio, MakeMKV selects by default the core, but you can also select the HD-MA stream. Good. But when the created MKV is parsed by tsMuxeR, it prints this for the two audio streams:
Code:
Track ID:    2
Stream type: DTS-HD
Stream ID:   A_DTS
Stream info: Bitrate: 1536Kbps  core + MLP data.Sample Rate: 48KHz  Channels: 2 (DTS Master Audio 24bit)
Stream lang: und

Track ID:    3
Stream type: DTS
Stream ID:   A_DTS
Stream info: Bitrate: 1536Kbps  Sample Rate: 48KHz  Channels: 2
Stream lang: und
Track 3 is OK, but the stream type of track 2 is DTS-HD instead of DTS-HD-MA. I need a correct stream type to determine precisely the way the audio can be processed and display the correct info in the GUI. Unfortunately, I haven't found so far a BD with a DTS-HD High Res track, and therefore I cannot check if tsMuxeR prints something different for HD and MA. If someone can check that for me, I'll be very grateful.
You have to use the command line: tsMuxeR.exe 3Dmovie.mkv

The second problem I have is with TrueHD audio. It is also possible to select either the core or the THD audio, or both in MakeMKV. But when tsMuxeR parses the file with a THD track, I see this:
Code:
Track ID:    2
Can't detect stream type

Track ID:    3
Stream type: AC3
Stream ID:   A_AC3
Stream info: Bitrate: 640Kbps Sample Rate: 48KHz Channels: 5.1
Stream lang: eng
Obviously, tsMuxeR is unable to recognise the THD track. I don't know if it's a bug in MakeMKV or in tsMuxeR, and if the problem exists with all THD tracks or if it is specific to the BD I've used. Again, someone can confirm that TrueHD is not supported by tsMuxeR ? If it works, what is the exact Stream Type it prints ?

Finally, I have been unable to find a BD3D with an example of AC3+ (aka EAC3) stream, and therefore I don't know what tsMuxeR prints in its Stream Type field. (I know that it uses A_AC3 for the Stream ID, but it's not sufficient.) Can someone help ?

Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by r0lZ; 24th March 2016 at 11:20.
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Old 24th March 2016, 14:41   #887  |  Link
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r0lz, can you display the channels in the select streams tab?

It's useful, because (to me) it makes sense to keep 7.1 tracks, but extract core of lossless 5.1 to save space.

Perhaps also display if it's an Atmos track. I don't think you can see that today.
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Old 24th March 2016, 15:18   #888  |  Link
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It's difficult. I don't have the info directly. In the MPLS, there is only an "audio_format" value, that can be 1, 3, 6 or 12, corresponding to this:
1 "Mono"
3 "Stereo"
6 "Multi-channel"
12 "Stereo/Multi-channel"
Currently, I display exactly that. It is not possible for me to analyse the streams themselves and therefore I can't count the channels. It might be possible to deduce the number of channels according to the codec type and the audio_format, but I'm not sure it works with all codec types, and I don't know the rules anyway. I don't want to risk to display a wrong info, so currently I prefer to display only the content of the MPLS, without trying to improve it.

Atmos is completely opaque to the tools I use, and I can't detect or handle it specifically. Sorry.

Note that you can easily inspect the real content of the audio streams with a good player or MediaInfo, and select the options in BD3D2MK3D accordingly. And if you are still not sure or if you want to pick the core of some streams and leave other ones in their original format, you can untick the option to extract the core, and demux. Then, when the demux is finished, use the Tools menu to extract the core of the streams you want in light 5.1, and edit the __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file to change the filename and label of that streams. It's easy.
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Old 24th March 2016, 15:58   #889  |  Link
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Why is it hard? You write the info already in the mux options file, but since you can only see that when the streams are demuxed I can't make the decision when I make the project.
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Old 24th March 2016, 17:24   #890  |  Link
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It's exactly for that reason for me too. I know the exact number of channels only when the streams are demuxed. When the GUI is built, I don't have the info. And don't ask me to demux everything anyway just to know the number of channels!
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Old 24th March 2016, 19:46   #891  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
but the stream type of track 2 is DTS-HD instead of DTS-HD-MA. I need a correct stream type to determine precisely the way the audio can be processed and display the correct info in the GUI.
For me is enough DTS-HD, the question is extract the 'core' or preserve the HD, no mather if is MA or HR.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I haven't found so far a BD with a DTS-HD High Res track, and therefore I cannot check if tsMuxeR prints something different for HD and MA.
A DTS Hi-Res, 7.1 channels, 3018kbps, 96kHz (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 1509kbps, 48kHz) in mkv is show by tsMuxeR like:

Code:
Track ID:    2
Stream type: DTS-HD
Stream ID:   A_DTS
Stream info: Bitrate: 3045Kbps  Sample Rate: 96KHz  Channels: 7.1
Less info than a DTS-MA

Quote:
The second problem I have is with TrueHD audio...
Obviously, tsMuxeR is unable to recognise the THD track. I don't know if it's a bug in MakeMKV or in tsMuxeR, and if the problem exists with all THD tracks or if it is specific to the BD I've used. Again, someone can confirm that TrueHD is not supported by tsMuxeR ?
Seems than tsMuxeR don't recognise THD track (Atmos or standard) in mkv's. Always get: Can't detect stream type

A workaround can be use eac3to 3Dmovie.mkv

Code:
MKV, 1 video track, 3 audio tracks, 0:02:29, 24p
1: h264/AVC, 1080p24 (16:9)
2: TrueHD (Atmos), English, 7.1 channels, 48kHz
3: AC3, English, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz
...

Quote:
Finally, I have been unable to find a BD3D with an example of AC3+ (aka EAC3) stream, and therefore I don't know what tsMuxeR prints in its Stream Type field.
Not from a BD3D but:

Code:
Track ID:    4
Stream type: E-AC3 (DD+)
Stream ID:   A_AC3
Stream info: Bitrate: 1664Kbps (core 640Kbps) Sample Rate: 48KHz Channels: 7.1
Stream lang: eng
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 24th March 2016 at 19:49.
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Old 24th March 2016, 20:24   #892  |  Link
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Thanks for the info. Very useful.

Using eac3to to retrieve the info about the THD tracks is possible, as well as MkvInfo. But the problem is that I have to demux it, and if tsMuxeR cannot recognise the track, that means that it cannot demux it. The workaround would be to use eac3to to demux all tracks. And that means that I have to change totally the current workflow of the program and rewrite a big part. And since eac3to cannot demux many subtitles from the 3DBDs, I don't want to use it for the BD3Ds. And using two different demuxing methods for the BD3D and MKV modes is absurd. I'm afraid I'll have to ignore the THD tracks. The users will need to select the AC3 core in MakeMKV and de happy with that! Or use AnyDVD to decrypt the original BD.
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Old 25th March 2016, 23:44   #893  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
Obviously, tsMuxeR is unable to recognise the THD track. I don't know if it's a bug in MakeMKV or in tsMuxeR, and if the problem exists with all THD tracks or if it is specific to the BD I've used. Again, someone can confirm that TrueHD is not supported by tsMuxeR ?
A MKV file with a TrueHD track has always been a problem with tsmuxer.

Quote:
https://github.com/mbunkus/mkvtoolni...TrueHD-and-AC3
If a TrueHD track contains AC3 data then both data sets are completely decodable independently from another. The AC3 part is present so that if that track is output to a hardware decoder that doesn't know about TrueHD then that hardware decoder can still decode the AC3 part. The only difference between the two is that TrueHD is a lossless codec while AC3 isn't – but they've both been done from the same source material.

The Matroska specs state that one track must only contain data for one codec. Therefore mkvmerge cannot keep the AC3 interleaved with the TrueHD part in a single track.
The problem is that tsmuxer only works with a thd+ac3-core track.

Last edited by AKI84; 26th March 2016 at 00:02.
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Old 26th March 2016, 07:45   #894  |  Link
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I see. It makes sense.
It's a pity. Perhaps tsMuxeR could try to re-create the THD+AC3 track with the THD and AC3 tracks from the MKV. But since the development of tsMuxeR has stopped, we have to live with that problem.
Anyway, if someone really want to add the THD track in the final SBS/T&B MKV, he can demux it with MkvExtract, and remux the MKV with the additional track with MkvMerge.
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Old 27th March 2016, 01:18   #895  |  Link
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I make some test and suggest to MakeMkv developer include tags for 3d-plane: http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewto...t=13892#p48559

After that all the info needed to create a fake mpls can be obtainend with:
mkvmerge --engage keep_track_statistics_tags -F verbose-text -i INPUT.mkv >output.log

For me still there are a pending question: Audio delays

When tsMuseR extract audio tracks ignore the audio delays in mkv's (eac3to add the delay automatically), and is not easy know the mkv delays because aren't stored in metadata.

AFAIK the only method is extract the timecodes of each audio track:
mkvextract timecodes_v2 INPUT.mkv 1:timecodes_1.txt
and read the second line of the txt:
Code:
# timecode format v2
200
210.666667
...
Here the delay of track 1 is 200 ms.
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Old 27th March 2016, 09:32   #896  |  Link
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I've seen (and replied to) your message at the MakeMKV forums. Good proposition. Thanks!

I'm not sure the audio delays are so important. Personally, I have never seen an audio streams with a delay in any BD. (BD3D2MK3D verifies them and uses them, if any, but afaik they are always 0.) And I suppose that MakeMKV doesn't truncate the audio before muxing them to MKV, so I guess that the problem of the delay can be ignored. Of course, if it appears that some MKVs created by MakeMKV have noticeable audio delays, I'll have to take them into account. But I'll do that later. For me, there are many other things to solve, much more important. (BTW, I've just finished the part of the code that loads the MKV in the GUI, and let the user select the streams he wants. But currently, it is totally impossible to demux the file. I have still many things to modify...)
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Old 27th March 2016, 09:54   #897  |  Link
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tebasuna51, I'm not sure why you have specified the option --engage keep_track_statistics_tags in your example:
Code:
mkvmerge --engage keep_track_statistics_tags -F verbose-text -i INPUT.mkv
Apparently, it is possible to retrieve the information without that option:
Code:
mkvmerge -F verbose-text -i INPUT.mkv
Is it something I've missed?
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Old 27th March 2016, 10:42   #898  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
Personally, I have never seen an audio streams with a delay in any BD.
I don't see delays in BD's also, but maybe there are "custom" BD's with added audio tracks from DVD's with delays.

Quote:
And I suppose that MakeMKV doesn't truncate the audio before muxing them to MKV, so I guess that the problem of the delay can be ignored.
I don't know how MakeMKV manage the delay, if there are any, I'll make some test about that.

But I know mkvmerge behaviour, mkv only support positive delays then, when a track have negative delays, for instance a .m4a with initial silence added, mkvmerge truncate the initial frames until obtain a 0 or positive delay.

Quote:
Of course, if it appears that some MKVs created by MakeMKV have noticeable audio delays, I'll have to take them into account. But I'll do that later.
I agree, can be do later.

Quote:
(...I have still many things to modify...)
Yes, I don't know Tcl-Tk languaje but reading your source file I can see many dependencies of BD structure. Thanks for your effort.
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Old 27th March 2016, 11:10   #899  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
tebasuna51, I'm not sure why you have specified the option --engage keep_track_statistics_tags in your example
MakeMKV use mkvmerge without --disable track-statistics-tags, then there are always usefull data not showed without --engage keep_track_statistics_tags.

All tracks show that info:

Code:
tag_bps:18321545
tag_duration:00:02:00.663000000
tag_number_of_bytes:276341585
tag_number_of_frames:2893
bps is the real average bitrate of the track, usefull for VBR tracks (DTS-HD, THD, ...)
duration show you the real duration of the track
number_of_bytes show the expected size of extracted track
number_of_frames show the number of subs for instance, or the number of video frames.

Last MediaInfo versions uses that tags, if present, to show the exact info, without that tags MediaInfo can't know exact values without examine the full file, and don't do that, show some estimation some times wrong.
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 27th March 2016 at 11:19.
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Old 27th March 2016, 11:43   #900  |  Link
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I know that, but BD3D2MK3D doesn't need that infos. To retrieve the 3D-plane tags, "-F verbose-text" is sufficient. I have other ways to retrieve the total duration, and the bps, number of bytes and number of frames are not necessary when the MKV is opened.

BTW, BD3D2MK3D includes the --disable-track-statistics-tags in its __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file by default, but this can be changed with the Settings menu.
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