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Old 24th August 2009, 13:43   #9241  |  Link
kypec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
If you are using libFLAC 1.2.1, do you know any problem running eac3to with this version?
I must admit I do not use it very extensively (yet) but so far I had no issues whatsoever with latest libFLAC.dll.
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Old 24th August 2009, 17:27   #9242  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypec View Post
please see my previous post on this behaviour.
I thought I had a sense of deja vu about this discussion!

Anyway, I've just been testing eac3to with libFLAC 1.2.1 and I'm not getting any significant filesize differences. I've tried three different movie soundtracks, all 5.1, one 16 bit and two 24 bit.

I wonder what's different about your test files, raquete and tebasuna51, that produces such dramatic differences?

I'm going to stick with 1.2.1 for the time being anyway and I'll report back if I hit any problems.
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Old 24th August 2009, 18:10   #9243  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTime View Post
I wonder what's different about your test files, raquete and tebasuna51, that produces such dramatic differences?
With my first sample stereo, 16 bits, 44100 KHz the sizes was equivalent, but with the second sample 5.1, 24 bits, 44100 KHz the difference in size is significant:
libFLAC 1.2.0 -> 172426732 bytes (ratio 78.6%)
libFLAC 1.2.1 -> 148297157 bytes (ratio 67.6%)
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Old 24th August 2009, 20:20   #9244  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTime View Post
I wonder what's different about your test files, raquete and tebasuna51, that produces such dramatic differences?
i posted my old results 2(or3) times in this same thread and in the tebasuna guide thread ...
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...5&postcount=12

now after change to libFLAC 1.2.1 the results are equals.

later i will post the result of wave source 5.1 24b/96k with 1:08:00:928 with the "old" and with the "new" libFLAC in eac3to...i still don't know the wave file size, are in seperateds channels(L,R,C...etc) and i need to join(encode) as multichannel.
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Old 25th August 2009, 00:20   #9245  |  Link
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crazy pc, crazy flac, crazy world and now the user is crazy too.

7.050.129.452 source wave 5.1 24b/96K (time 01:08:00)

eac3to:

3.752.647.704 old libflac (07/22/2007)
Code:
eac3to v3.16
command line: eac3to 01Wave.wav 01Wave.flac
-----------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
WAV, 5.1 channels, 1:08:00, 24 bits, 13824kbps, 96khz
Reading WAV...
Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
Creating file "01Wave.flac"...
The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
eac3to processing took 31 minutes, 33 seconds.
Done.
3.745.901.910 new libflac (09/16/2007)
Code:
eac3to v3.16
command line: eac3to 01Wave.wav 01Wave.flac
-----------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
WAV, 5.1 channels, 1:08:00, 24 bits, 13824kbps, 96khz
Reading WAV...
Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
Creating file "01Wave.flac"...
The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
eac3to processing took 31 minutes, 24 seconds.
Done.
BeHappy/Flac(09/16/2007)
but have errors.
opening as RaWavesource:
Code:
Starting job 01wave.wav->01wave.flac
Error: BeHappy.AviSynthException: Script error:
there is no function named "RaWavSource"
em BeHappy.AviSynthClip..ctor(String func, String arg,
AviSynthColorspace forceColorspace, AviSynthScriptEnvironment env)
em BeHappy.Encoder.encode()
1.464.637.781 BeHappy/Flac.exe(09/16/2007)
openinig as WavSource
error too, run in less than 5 minutes, file size is short but
was encoded only 26:34.422(time in minutes)
and i did twice, just the same.
Code:
Starting job 01wave.wav->01wave.flac
Found Audio Stream
Channels=6, BitsPerSample=24 int, SampleRate=96000Hz
encoder\flac.exe --force -o "H:\eac3to\01wave.flac"
--silent --force-raw-format --endian=little --channels=6
--bps=24 --sample-rate=96000 --sign=signed -
Writing PCM data to encoder's StdIn
Finalizing encoder
Complete
now who can explain that?!?
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Last edited by raquete; 25th August 2009 at 00:34. Reason: phrases inside code space was too large.
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Old 25th August 2009, 01:06   #9246  |  Link
yesgrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypec View Post
You didn't read my post thoroughly, did you?
kypec,
sorry, I 've read it but somehow I've mixed it in my mind with some other previous posts.
I've already deleted that post because is completelly nonsense.

By the way, thanks for your findings. I will also try with new libflac, maybe I can gain some extra space on my backups.
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Old 25th August 2009, 01:48   #9247  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
...
7.050.129.452 source wave 5.1 24b/96K (time 01:08:00)
...
there is no function named "RaWavSource"
...
openinig as WavSource
error too

now who can explain that?!?
1) WavSource can't manage wav files >4GB, you need open the file with RaWavSource

2) RaWavSource function is in NicAudio.dll v2.0. Downnload (see my signature) and put in AviSynth plugins folder
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Old 25th August 2009, 03:05   #9248  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypec View Post
Code:
metaflac.exe --set-tag=WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_CHANNEL_MASK=0x060F test_eac.flac
Another "undocumented" option of the flac applications?

Another very-good reason for me to prefer TTA and WavPack from now on!
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Old 25th August 2009, 03:22   #9249  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
1) WavSource can't manage wav files >4GB, you need open the file with RaWavSource

2) RaWavSource function is in NicAudio.dll v2.0. Downnload (see my signature) and put in AviSynth plugins folder
Great, i got the file.
in few hours new result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midzuki View Post
Another very-good reason for me to prefer TTA and WavPack from now on!
i don't know TTA( ? ) format but Wavpack always give me problems when i encode waves with high volumes(levels), some peaks appear clippeds(saturations, straight lines/squares). i can see in any wave editor doing analysis.
i really don't like.
don't happens with your encodes?
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Last edited by raquete; 25th August 2009 at 03:24.
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Old 25th August 2009, 04:13   #9250  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
i don't know TTA( ? ) format
http://www.true-audio.com/

Quote:
but Wavpack always give me problems when i encode waves with high volumes(levels), some peaks appear clippeds(saturations, straight lines/squares). i can see in any wave editor doing analysis.
i really don't like.
don't happens with your encodes?
What ???
Are you sure you weren't using the «lossy» compression mode ?
Also, if the answer is "yes", are you sure the sound editors you used were decompressing the lossless .WV files correctly???

Last edited by Midzuki; 25th August 2009 at 15:12. Reason: fix typo
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Old 25th August 2009, 05:20   #9251  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midzuki View Post
http://www.true-audio.com/
What ???
Are you sure you weren't using the «lossy» compression mode ?
Also, if the answer is "no", are you sure the sound editors you used were decompressing the lossless .WV files correctly???

first, thanks for the link.
i really don't know TTA and need to read about this format.

WV lossy?
i don't knew that one lossless compression can be "lossy".

adjusted "lossless(high)" to encode (no hibrid) 32 bit float
and adobe audition to open and check WV.

example from audition waveform statistics
(selected one channel where have one clip):
Code:
	Mono
Min Sample Value:	21785
Max Sample Value:	32767
Peak Amplitude:	-13.87 dB
Possibly Clipped:	1
DC Offset:	79.736 
Minimum RMS Power:	996.99 dB
Maximum RMS Power:	-inf dB
Average RMS Power:	-3.01 dB
Total RMS Power:	-18.65 dB
Actual Bit Depth:	16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms
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Old 25th August 2009, 05:22   #9252  |  Link
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tebasuna51,
after 8 minutes with ~60% of the file encoded i got this message:
Error: System.IO.IOException: O pipe foi finalizado.
Code:
Starting job 01wave.wav->01wave.flac
Found Audio Stream
Channels=6, BitsPerSample=24 int, SampleRate=96000Hz
encoder\flac.exe --force -o "H:\eac3to\01wave.flac"
 --silent --force-raw-format --endian=little
 --channels=6 --bps=24 --sample-rate=96000 --sign=signed -
Writing PCM data to encoder's StdIn
Error: System.IO.IOException: O pipe foi finalizado.
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Old 25th August 2009, 06:35   #9253  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midzuki View Post
Another "undocumented" option of the flac applications?
No, it's not undocumented. FLAC has very extensive support of tagging, look in the documentation, --help switch is your friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTime View Post
I wonder what's different about your test files, raquete and tebasuna51, that produces such dramatic differences?
In my case the size difference wasn't that dramatic at all.
435 306 274 : 435 640 726 = 99.923%, the real difference is less than 0.1%, no big deal.
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Old 25th August 2009, 13:06   #9254  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
tebasuna51,
after 8 minutes with ~60% of the file encoded i got this message:
Error: System.IO.IOException: O pipe foi finalizado.
Yep, this is a know problem with flac.exe. Can't write flac files >2GB
Maybe in next v1.2.2...

See:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index...78&atid=363478
http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?fun...78&atid=113478

Until next flac.exe version you must use only eac3to if flac file output is >2GB.

Edit: With an audio track tested don't exist many difference:
8032850564 Pulp.wav
3918536382 Pulp_120.flac 48.8%
3893160387 Pulp_121.flac 48.5%
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 25th August 2009 at 13:49.
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Old 25th August 2009, 14:36   #9255  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypec View Post
No, it's not undocumented. FLAC has very extensive support of tagging, look in the documentation, --help switch is your friend.
Quote:
metaflac - Command-line FLAC metadata editor version 1.2.1
Copyright (C) 2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007 Josh Coalson

Usage:
metaflac [options] [operations] FLACfile [FLACfile ...]

Use metaflac to list, add, remove, or edit metadata in one or more FLAC files.
You may perform one major operation, or many shorthand operations at a time.

Options:
--preserve-modtime Preserve the original modification time in spite of edits
--with-filename Prefix each output line with the FLAC file name
(the default if more than one FLAC file is specified)
--no-filename Do not prefix each output line with the FLAC file name
(the default if only one FLAC file is specified)
--no-utf8-convert Do not convert tags from UTF-8 to local charset,
or vice versa. This is useful for scripts, and setting
tags in situations where the locale is wrong.
--dont-use-padding By default metaflac tries to use padding where possible
to avoid rewriting the entire file if the metadata size
changes. Use this option to tell metaflac to not take
advantage of padding this way.

Shorthand operations:
--show-md5sum Show the MD5 signature from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-min-blocksize Show the minimum block size from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-max-blocksize Show the maximum block size from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-min-framesize Show the minimum frame size from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-max-framesize Show the maximum frame size from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-sample-rate Show the sample rate from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-channels Show the number of channels from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-bps Show the # of bits per sample from the STREAMINFO block.
--show-total-samples Show the total # of samples from the STREAMINFO block.

--show-vendor-tag Show the vendor string from the VORBIS_COMMENT block.
--show-tag=NAME Show all tags where the the field name matches 'NAME'.
--remove-tag=NAME Remove all tags whose field name is 'NAME'.
--remove-first-tag=NAME Remove first tag whose field name is 'NAME'.
--remove-all-tags Remove all tags, leaving only the vendor string.
--set-tag=FIELD Add a tag. The FIELD must comply with the Vorbis comment
spec, of the form "NAME=VALUE". If there is currently
no tag block, one will be created.
--set-tag-from-file=FIELD Like --set-tag, except the VALUE is a filename
whose contents will be read verbatim to set the tag value.
Unless --no-utf8-convert is specified, the contents will
be converted to UTF-8 from the local charset. This can
be used to store a cuesheet in a tag (e.g.
--set-tag-from-file="CUESHEET=image.cue"). Do not try
to store binary data in tag fields! Use APPLICATION
blocks for that.
--import-tags-from=FILE Import tags from a file. Use '-' for stdin. Each line
should be of the form NAME=VALUE. Multi-line comments
are currently not supported. Specify --remove-all-tags
and/or --no-utf8-convert before --import-tags-from if
necessary. If FILE is '-' (stdin), only one FLAC file
may be specified.
--export-tags-to=FILE Export tags to a file. Use '-' for stdout. Each line
will be of the form NAME=VALUE. Specify
--no-utf8-convert if necessary.
--import-cuesheet-from=FILE Import a cuesheet from a file. Use '-' for stdin.
Only one FLAC file may be specified. A seekpoint will be
added for each index point in the cuesheet to the
SEEKTABLE unless --no-cued-seekpoints is specified.
--export-cuesheet-to=FILE Export CUESHEET block to a cuesheet file, suitable
for use by CD authoring software. Use '-' for stdout.
Only one FLAC file may be specified on the command line.
--import-picture-from=FILENAME|SPECIFICATION Import a picture and store it in a
PICTURE block. Either a filename for the picture file or
a more complete specification form can be used. The
SPECIFICATION is a string whose parts are separated by |
characters. Some parts may be left empty to invoke
default values. FILENAME is just shorthand for
"||||FILENAME". The format of SPECIFICATION is:
[TYPE]|[MIME-TYPE]|[DESCRIPTION]|[WIDTHxHEIGHTxDEPTH[/COLORS]]|FILE
TYPE is optional; it is a number from one of:
0: Other
1: 32x32 pixels 'file icon' (PNG only)
2: Other file icon
3: Cover (front)
4: Cover (back)
5: Leaflet page
6: Media (e.g. label side of CD)
7: Lead artist/lead performer/soloist
8: Artist/performer
9: Conductor
10: Band/Orchestra
11: Composer
12: Lyricist/text writer
13: Recording Location
14: During recording
15: During performance
16: Movie/video screen capture
17: A bright coloured fish
18: Illustration
19: Band/artist logotype
20: Publisher/Studio logotype
The default is 3 (front cover). There may only be one picture each
of type 1 and 2 in a file.
MIME-TYPE is optional; if left blank, it will be detected from the
file. For best compatibility with players, use pictures with MIME
type image/jpeg or image/png. The MIME type can also be --> to
mean that FILE is actually a URL to an image, though this use is
discouraged.
DESCRIPTION is optional; the default is an empty string
The next part specfies the resolution and color information. If
the MIME-TYPE is image/jpeg, image/png, or image/gif, you can
usually leave this empty and they can be detected from the file.
Otherwise, you must specify the width in pixels, height in pixels,
and color depth in bits-per-pixel. If the image has indexed colors
you should also specify the number of colors used.
FILE is the path to the picture file to be imported, or the URL if
MIME type is -->
--export-picture-to=FILE Export PICTURE block to a file. Use '-' for stdout.
Only one FLAC file may be specified. The first PICTURE
block will be exported unless --export-picture-to is
preceded by a --block-number=# option to specify the exact
metadata block to extract. Note that the block number is
the one shown by --list.
--add-replay-gain Calculates the title and album gains/peaks of the given
FLAC files as if all the files were part of one album,
then stores them in the VORBIS_COMMENT block. The tags
are the same as those used by vorbisgain. Existing
ReplayGain tags will be replaced. If only one FLAC file
is given, the album and title gains will be the same.
Since this operation requires two passes, it is always
executed last, after all other operations have been
completed and written to disk. All FLAC files specified
must have the same resolution, sample rate, and number
of channels. The sample rate must be one of 8, 11.025,
12, 16, 22.05, 24, 32, 44.1, or 48 kHz.
--remove-replay-gain Removes the ReplayGain tags.
--add-seekpoint={#|X|#x|#s} Add seek points to a SEEKTABLE block
# : a specific sample number for a seek point
X : a placeholder point (always goes at the end of the SEEKTABLE)
#x : # evenly spaced seekpoints, the first being at sample 0
#s : a seekpoint every # seconds; # does not have to be a whole number
If no SEEKTABLE block exists, one will be created. If
one already exists, points will be added to the existing
table, and any duplicates will be turned into placeholder
points. You may use many --add-seekpoint options; the
resulting SEEKTABLE will be the unique-ified union of
all such values. Example: --add-seekpoint=100x
--add-seekpoint=3.5s will add 100 evenly spaced
seekpoints and a seekpoint every 3.5 seconds.
--add-padding=length Add a padding block of the given length (in bytes).
The overall length of the new block will be 4 + length;
the extra 4 bytes is for the metadata block header.

Major operations:
--version
Show the metaflac version number.
--list
List the contents of one or more metadata blocks to stdout. By default,
all metadata blocks are listed in text format. Use the following options
to change this behavior:

--block-number=#[,#[...]]
An optional comma-separated list of block numbers to display. The first
block, the STREAMINFO block, is block 0.

--block-type=type[,type[...]]
--except-block-type=type[,type[...]]
An optional comma-separated list of block types to be included or ignored
with this option. Use only one of --block-type or --except-block-type.
The valid block types are: STREAMINFO, PADDING, APPLICATION, SEEKTABLE,
VORBIS_COMMENT. You may narrow down the types of APPLICATION blocks
displayed as follows:
APPLICATION:abcd The APPLICATION block(s) whose textual repre-
sentation of the 4-byte ID is "abcd"
APPLICATION:0xXXXXXXXX The APPLICATION block(s) whose hexadecimal big-
endian representation of the 4-byte ID is
"0xXXXXXXXX". For the example "abcd" above the
hexadecimal equivalalent is 0x61626364

NOTE: if both --block-number and --[except-]block-type are specified,
the result is the logical AND of both arguments.

--application-data-format=hexdump|text
If the application block you are displaying contains binary data but your
--data-format=text, you can display a hex dump of the application data
contents instead using --application-data-format=hexdump

--remove
Remove one or more metadata blocks from the metadata. Unless
--dont-use-padding is specified, the blocks will be replaced with padding.
You may not remove the STREAMINFO block.

--block-number=#[,#[...]]
--block-type=type[,type[...]]
--except-block-type=type[,type[...]]
See --list above for usage.

NOTE: if both --block-number and --[except-]block-type are specified,
the result is the logical AND of both arguments.

--remove-all
Remove all metadata blocks (except the STREAMINFO block) from the
metadata. Unless --dont-use-padding is specified, the blocks will be
replaced with padding.

--merge-padding
Merge adjacent PADDING blocks into single blocks.

--sort-padding
Move all PADDING blocks to the end of the metadata and merge them into a
single block.
As you ¿can? see, there is no mentioning of "WaveFormatExtensible", nor "Channel_Mask".

Last edited by Midzuki; 25th August 2009 at 15:14. Reason: clarification
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Old 25th August 2009, 14:43   #9256  |  Link
raquete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Yep, this is a know problem with flac.exe. Can't write flac files >2GB
Maybe in next v1.2.2...

See:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index...78&atid=363478
http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?fun...78&atid=113478

Until next flac.exe version you must use only eac3to if flac file output is >2GB.

Edit: With an audio track tested don't exist many difference:
8032850564 Pulp.wav
3918536382 Pulp_120.flac 48.8%
3893160387 Pulp_121.flac 48.5%
no problems, eac3to is cool, work perfectly and easy to use.

thanks so much for the links, hints, suport, big patience and friendship.
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Old 25th August 2009, 15:03   #9257  |  Link
Midzuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
first, thanks for the link.
i really don't know TTA and need to read about this format.

WV lossy?
i don't knew that one lossless compression can be "lossy".
WavPack is a very-versatile format, indeed.

Quote:
adjusted "lossless(high)" to encode (no hibrid) 32 bit float
and adobe audition to open and check WV.

example from audition waveform statistics
(selected one channel where have one clip):
Code:
	Mono
Min Sample Value:	21785
Max Sample Value:	32767
Peak Amplitude:	-13.87 dB
Possibly Clipped:	1
DC Offset:	79.736 
Minimum RMS Power:	996.99 dB
Maximum RMS Power:	-inf dB
Average RMS Power:	-3.01 dB
Total RMS Power:	-18.65 dB
Actual Bit Depth:	16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms
Have you tried: 1) decompress the .WV file to a .WAV copy of the original source; 2) bit-compare the original .WAV and the copied .WAV; ???

I don't use Adobe Audition, so I can just suppose it doesn't deal very well with 32-bit .WV files...


BTW: Did you generate those 32-bit .WV archives from 32-bit sources --- or not ???

I mean: regardless of the possible bugs/imperfections of «WavPack.exe»,
I see no point in creating 32-bit .WV archives only because Adobe Audition is your favorite sound editor.

Last edited by Midzuki; 25th August 2009 at 16:03. Reason: fix typo
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Old 25th August 2009, 15:27   #9258  |  Link
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Quote:
WavPack is a very-versatile format, indeed.
lol

audition always open as wave 32bit float but i don't remember if i generate those 32-bit WavPack archives from 32-bit sources ...i don't use WV no more after see that clips.
sound forge show exactly the same clips as audition but audition is my favorite, have amazing differents features.
i'm using now flacs or apes.
flac is my preference.

cheers!
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Old 25th August 2009, 17:01   #9259  |  Link
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I've tested with Baraka, the biggest movie audio file I have, 5.1 96kHz 24bit.
wav : 9,452,814,404
1.2.0: 5,279,451,099 (55.85%)
1.2.1: 5,247,885,754 (55.51%)

That's not a very big difference. I'm not sure it's worth the effort to reencode all my backups with 1.2.1, I think I will only use it with the new ones...
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Old 25th August 2009, 21:30   #9260  |  Link
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Location: SK
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midzuki View Post
As you ¿can? see, there is no mentioning of "WaveFormatExtensible", nor "Channel_Mask".
Of course there isn't. They are just METADATA and therefore can have arbitrary names and values. It's up to the application processing such FLAC files to honor/ignore such tags. These tags are not the same as RIFF data structures which are mandatory in WAVE headers for example.
I just included one of that tags manually in order to obtain one FLAC file as closely similar to another one as possible for testing purposes.
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