Need help using TVONE 1T-TBC to restore VHS.

joe_71 · 22nd March 2010, 13:42

I have recorded a clip from italian analogic tv (PAL system) with a faulty VCR (low cost, not a S-VHS, with mechanical problems I think) and now I have the urgent need to restore the video which is almost incomprehensible!
I have tried with a TvOne-Task 1T-TBC Multi Standard Time Base Corrector from B&H Video and a Terratec Grabster AV400 but the result is not so good.
What type of defect has my recording?
Any suggestion for a possible remedy (hw or sw like a VirtualDub plug-in)?
Here is a clip from the video.
http://www.4shared.com/file/24161835...ovie_0001.html

Thanks

Ghitulescu · 22nd March 2010, 16:03

As you can see there's for now not a single software solution -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152706

I think it's the Grabster that makes the problems - I never saw in my life such a bad TB error, it appears that the hardware encoder gets confused about these TB errors, these are not lines but [MPEG-]blocks ...

Have you checked the image going through the VCR and TBC (use the other output to your TV)? If you did you would have known by now which causes this issue ...

It would also be useful to test the TBC against other irregular sources (not a DVD or anything digital like Bluray or PS3), maybe it has a faulty memory controller ....

joe_71 · 23rd March 2010, 10:20

I'm sure that the problem was in the faulty mechanics of my old VCR: I've watched the tape directly and it has that strange periodic horizontal shift. As for the TBC, I think that it's working: I've tried to insert it in the chain VCR -> TV and it seems to make some correction (the result is what You can see in the video and it's too poor). The Grabster adds some artifact and noise but it's not the problem...

Thanks

Ghitulescu · 23rd March 2010, 13:05

You got me all wrong - see eg the right side of the hanging screens - there are blocks of 16 pixels there.

A simulated TB error is here -> http://www.mediacollege.com/video/ca...ase-error.html

A real life one is there -> http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2...d-anyway/page7.

None of them has so many scanlines moved as a group. It has to do either with the memory addressing chip in the TBC or with the MPEG-2 algorithm in Grabster. I'm positively sure you won't have this error when watching the VHS directly on the TV. I mean it you have it, but not on large blocks. Or did you indeed have it as in the attachment?

So I repeat myself, check the signal after each element to find who's guilty as charged.

joe_71 · 25th March 2010, 10:01

Thanks

As soon as possible, I'll try to aquire the clip again (without the TBC) and I'll post You a sample.

joe_71 · 31st March 2010, 10:52

Here is the clip from VHS -> Grabber.
http://www.4shared.com/file/25349873...94/No_TBC.html
I have watched the VHS directly from TV and it presents the same time-errors as in the clip.

Thanks

Ghitulescu · 31st March 2010, 12:07

The TBC does not work well or the TB error cannot be fully corrected by this particular type of TBC.

I must confess I never saw in my life such a TB fluctuation. So, first get a good VCR then try the tape once more, with and without the TBC.

lordsmurf · 5th April 2010, 07:19

That's not a timebase issue, that's a signal interference problem.

Ghitulescu · 12th April 2010, 19:43

I think you wanna say that was an interference that caused the TB error and this is definitively "burnt-in" on the tape (ie this occured during the taping). In this case the TBC works correctly and the error cannot be further corrected in hardware. See the thread I gave for a software solution.

NB (@joe71): unlike the human eye/brain, a TBC cannot "understand" the picture to see what's wrong with it.

PS: if the software solutions do not satisfy you, the only way of correcting this error in software remains the following: 1. output the video as a set of images (BMP), 2. edit each image by hand (moving lines of pixels by hand), 3. reassemble the images back into a movie.

lordsmurf · 14th April 2010, 22:27

I don't think there's any timebase error there at all -- it's just signal noise. Maybe some timing instability, sure, but mostly just interference noise. Without re-downloading the clip, I believe this was the "herringbone on steroids" or "herringbone from hell" clip I saw some weeks back. Yes?

22nd March 2010, 13:42	#1 \| Link
joe_71 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4	Need help using TVONE 1T-TBC to restore VHS. I have recorded a clip from italian analogic tv (PAL system) with a faulty VCR (low cost, not a S-VHS, with mechanical problems I think) and now I have the urgent need to restore the video which is almost incomprehensible! I have tried with a TvOne-Task 1T-TBC Multi Standard Time Base Corrector from B&H Video and a Terratec Grabster AV400 but the result is not so good. What type of defect has my recording? Any suggestion for a possible remedy (hw or sw like a VirtualDub plug-in)? Here is a clip from the video. http://www.4shared.com/file/24161835...ovie_0001.html Thanks

5th April 2010, 07:19	#8 \| Link
lordsmurf Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 124	That's not a timebase issue, that's a signal interference problem. __________________ Back in town. If you want my advice, then find me at the DigitalFAQ forum. Glad to assist.

14th April 2010, 22:27	#10 \| Link
lordsmurf Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 124	I don't think there's any timebase error there at all -- it's just signal noise. Maybe some timing instability, sure, but mostly just interference noise. Without re-downloading the clip, I believe this was the "herringbone on steroids" or "herringbone from hell" clip I saw some weeks back. Yes? __________________ Back in town. If you want my advice, then find me at the DigitalFAQ forum. Glad to assist.

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22nd March 2010, 16:03	#2 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	As you can see there's for now not a single software solution -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152706 I think it's the Grabster that makes the problems - I never saw in my life such a bad TB error, it appears that the hardware encoder gets confused about these TB errors, these are not lines but [MPEG-]blocks ... Have you checked the image going through the VCR and TBC (use the other output to your TV)? If you did you would have known by now which causes this issue ... It would also be useful to test the TBC against other irregular sources (not a DVD or anything digital like Bluray or PS3), maybe it has a faulty memory controller ....

23rd March 2010, 10:20	#3 \| Link
joe_71 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4	I'm sure that the problem was in the faulty mechanics of my old VCR: I've watched the tape directly and it has that strange periodic horizontal shift. As for the TBC, I think that it's working: I've tried to insert it in the chain VCR -> TV and it seems to make some correction (the result is what You can see in the video and it's too poor). The Grabster adds some artifact and noise but it's not the problem... Thanks

23rd March 2010, 13:05	#4 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	You got me all wrong - see eg the right side of the hanging screens - there are blocks of 16 pixels there. A simulated TB error is here -> http://www.mediacollege.com/video/ca...ase-error.html A real life one is there -> http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2...d-anyway/page7. None of them has so many scanlines moved as a group. It has to do either with the memory addressing chip in the TBC or with the MPEG-2 algorithm in Grabster. I'm positively sure you won't have this error when watching the VHS directly on the TV. I mean it you have it, but not on large blocks. Or did you indeed have it as in the attachment? So I repeat myself, check the signal after each element to find who's guilty as charged.

25th March 2010, 10:01	#5 \| Link
joe_71 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4	Thanks As soon as possible, I'll try to aquire the clip again (without the TBC) and I'll post You a sample.

31st March 2010, 10:52	#6 \| Link
joe_71 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4	Here is the clip from VHS -> Grabber. http://www.4shared.com/file/25349873...94/No_TBC.html I have watched the VHS directly from TV and it presents the same time-errors as in the clip. Thanks

31st March 2010, 12:07	#7 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	The TBC does not work well or the TB error cannot be fully corrected by this particular type of TBC. I must confess I never saw in my life such a TB fluctuation. So, first get a good VCR then try the tape once more, with and without the TBC.

12th April 2010, 19:43	#9 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	I think you wanna say that was an interference that caused the TB error and this is definitively "burnt-in" on the tape (ie this occured during the taping). In this case the TBC works correctly and the error cannot be further corrected in hardware. See the thread I gave for a software solution. NB (@joe71): unlike the human eye/brain, a TBC cannot "understand" the picture to see what's wrong with it. PS: if the software solutions do not satisfy you, the only way of correcting this error in software remains the following: 1. output the video as a set of images (BMP), 2. edit each image by hand (moving lines of pixels by hand), 3. reassemble the images back into a movie.