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Old 8th January 2004, 17:18   #41  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
@Sirber: HE-AAC encoding in Producer
The HE-AAC DLL (racp.dll), with codec name 'racp', is not distributed with the Producer Application for licensing reasons, but it is included with the Producer SDK.
yummie

when will the sdk be available? and will this dll be usable in realplayer or helixproducer than?
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Old 8th January 2004, 18:18   #42  |  Link
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is ATRAC3 still avalible? or it was replaced by AAC?
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Old 8th January 2004, 18:21   #43  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sirber
is ATRAC3 still avalible? or it was replaced by AAC?
Read the first post, "AAC has replaced ATRAC3 as the high bitrate audio codec"

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Old 8th January 2004, 18:44   #44  |  Link
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I really need to move some of my answers to the first post, in an FAQ section. Will do shortly. In the meantime:

@iwod: Is the new PP included in RealPlayer 10? Or is it still currently being developed?
If you are asking about the minor improvement to add back some high frequency spatial information.. sorry, not complete in time to be included.

@CruNcher: hehe i don't know what to think about this marketing gag
I rather liked my RV9-EHQ name , but marketing wanted to collect all the new developments into one main '10' release. It is also RealNetworks' 10 year anniversary coming up.

@Sirber: Can we still use the number if EHQ instead of his name and don't bother with this RV9/RV10 thing?
Yes, when Helix Producer 10 is available, do change to using 'rv10' as the codec name in the audience file. Like I mentioned, without any encoding complexity, you will then get RV9-EHQ @ 85. The cleanest and preferred method is to use 'rv10' + high, medium, or low encoding complexity (-eco switch to Producer)

@satori: Realnetworks will rerease tools to convert RA10 to AAC or mp4?
No, but I am sure someone else will. Gabest is working on a splitter update right now. For Gold, I think RP 10 will rip to .aac as well, but this has not been finally decided yet.

Please say your boss DO NOT ask mail adress and personal info at the end of install realplayer. I hate real want to collect personal info.I always put fake adress and info.
Yes, me too, and most others, but RealNetworks has to generate revenue somehow. RealPlayer is its main instrument for this, and we need to document the number of users. Use fake info if you like.

@LiFe: Too bad level 2 partners don't get betas. I'm sure there's plenty of crap I could complain about before it went gold
I am sure too, but it's available for free for everyone here:
http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=d9
This is for Windows only, for now, top link, the others are older versions.
Linux playback of the latest formats is via the open source Helix Player.

@bond: SDK availability?
Not sure. will let you know.

Oh, on slashdot this morning, there was the usual flurry of negative responses to kforeman's Real 10 announcement, where he even referred to Doom9 : "In developing RealVideo 10, our codec team has been working closely with the Doom9 community".

I posted this reply, but it was probably too late to be read by most
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Last edited by karl_lillevold; 9th January 2004 at 00:34.
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Old 8th January 2004, 20:03   #45  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold

Oh, on slashdot this morning, there was the usual flurry of negative responses in response to kforeman's Real 10 announcement, where he even referred to Doom9 : "In developing RealVideo 10, our codec team has been working closely with the Doom9 community".

I posted this reply, but it was probably too late to be read by most
WOW!. That is lots of reply.... but at first sight it is all negative post. It seems these people still don't understand how good is RV9EHQ
or now RV10. I now understand that what sirber is saying about Vp6 encoding @ low bitrate. Rv10 is still the best on Anime on low bitrate.

@Sirber
you need to join in the slashdot message chain to convince them now...
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Old 8th January 2004, 21:59   #46  |  Link
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Quote:
Helix DRM 10 : Our latest DRM technology.
AFAIK Helix is an open-source project (everything except the codecs), does that mean your DRM is open-source (I´m yust hoping, but I think I know the answer)?
If not, is there at least a dll which is useable for Gabest´s filter for example like the codec dlls?

(so it can be decrypted with a valid license like iTunes m4p or M$-DRMv2 and saved unencrypted without decoding)
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Old 9th January 2004, 00:30   #47  |  Link
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i just found realplayer installed a directshowfilter on my system, it's called RealPlayer Audio Filter : is it meant to play ra10 files with every dshow based player or an internal filter for RP ?

any date for helix producer 10 ? ( i only use jobfiles and producer basic wants 200$ for this )
[edit]it's out , nice !! let's give it a try [/edit]
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Old 9th January 2004, 03:36   #48  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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Helix Producer 10.0

Helix Producer 10.0 Beta is available
from helixcommunity.org in the Binaries section (Binaries -> (click here for distribution binaries) -> Helix DNA Producer -> Command Line Application)

This includes all the latest updates, including the SDK.
Command line only.

It would be great when the various front-ends get around to updating, since this includes the latest improvements that until now has been available only via a separate DLL (1st pass speedup).

If you have any questions, let me know. The encoding complexity settings are now finalized. It is as simple as choosing 'rv9' or 'rv10' as the codec name. RV10 will be EHQ (85), RV9 will be good ole' RV9. All the old settings and tweaks still work. The only improvement that needs to be enabled with audience file or reg key, is the 1st pass speed-up.

Thanks to all the front-end GUI programmers! I apologize things have been changing, especially the encodingComplexity setting, but this has been un-avoidable considering how this community has helped test and improve during the development.
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Old 9th January 2004, 04:45   #49  |  Link
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Re: Helix Producer 10.0

Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
This includes all the latest updates
Everything that was done with the 9.2 series dlls? The improved twopass and high frequencies, and b-frame control? Just making sure.
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Old 9th January 2004, 04:49   #50  |  Link
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Oh, something I just remembered, I recall talk of implementing EHQ into RV8, don't remember whether it went through or not. Either way, what's the status of that in the new producer series?
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Old 9th January 2004, 04:55   #51  |  Link
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@RadicalEd: yes and yes. All improvements so far are included, EHQ in RV8 as well. The EHQ in RV8 does not include all parts of EHQ in RV9, and there is no improved 2-pass VBR, or fast 1st pass, but you do get better quality in 'high' encodingComplexity. In Producer 10, 'high' is the default complexity for all codecs, rv8, rv9, and rv10.
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Old 9th January 2004, 04:59   #52  |  Link
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Great, thanks. And now a minor Helix Producer doc error:
Quote:
disableLoadManagement [ job ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disables load management/CPU scalability functionality.

Load management occurs during real-time operation and enables codecs to reduce the complexity, and hence CPU requirements, in order to maintain steady state operation. This option should generally only be used for testing or in cases where there is a strong reason to disable automatic load management. Disabling load management may result undesirable behavior in cases where encoding load requirements exceeds available system resources.

Default:
false

Values:
Any valid Boolean Value where:

A value of 'true' means 2-pass encoding is enabled (file is analyzed in 1 pass and encoded in a 2nd pass)
A value of 'false' means 2-pass encoding is disabled (file is encoded in 1 pass)

Type:
bool

Example:
<disableLoadManagement type="bool">false</disableLoadManagement>
The two pass description was copied to the load management description in the Job File reference.
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Old 9th January 2004, 05:19   #53  |  Link
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Some more stuff.
The audience documentation says that max and average bitrate can be any integer between 1 and 999999 bps. Hopefully that's a bug, and producer isn't limited to encoding < 976 kbps.

Second, in the audio codec list, 128 kbps raac is stuck in between 64 kbps cook and 64 kbps raac and improperly labelled as flavor 0. It is in the right place further down at raac 2, though.

Quote:
64 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio cook 24 44.1 kHz RealPlayer 8
128 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 raac 0 44.1 kHz RealPlayer 8
64 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 raac 0 44.1 kHz RealOne Player
96 Kbps Stereo Music cook 13 44.1 kHz RealPlayer G2
96 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio cook 25 44.1 kHz RealPlayer 8
96 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 raac 1 44.1 kHz RealOne Player
128 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 raac 2 44.1 kHz RealOne Player
160 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 raac 3 44.1 kHz RealOne Player
Third, Startup Latency is again labelled as 4 - 25.
Quote:
Values:
Any number value between 4-25.0
And on a more minor note, since these have been like this for awhile, the audio section still contains an encodingType chart that doesn't actually apply to any of the audio codecs AFAIK, unless it was implemented into raac.
Similarly, the video section containes two encodingTypes that don't exist, vbrUnconstrainedQuality and vbrUnconstrainedBitrate.

That's all from the Audience File Reference Doc.

edit- another minor thing, erv4.dll is still labelled "RealVideo9 EHQ + xVBR1" in the producer codecs directory.

Last edited by RadicalEd; 9th January 2004 at 08:57.
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Old 9th January 2004, 08:42   #54  |  Link
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is there a list of standalone/cd mp3 players that will support the realaudio format, future(with aac support) and current ones. Thanks Karl.

p.s. I might get the toaster(mobo) as well.
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Old 9th January 2004, 09:24   #55  |  Link
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RadicalEd: thanks for all the problem reports! I will forward the documentation errors to the right person, as you can imagine the Producer team has been swamped getting this release ready, and there are a few areas in need of polishing. I will fix the DLL version info myself.

maxBitrate is a doc error.

That line in the list of AAC codec flavors should be deleted. I found that one myself earlier today.

Max Startup Latency should be 4-60, but there is a bug in the GUI that prevents anything above 25. No problem in the cmd line producer though.

phrentec: any player that will support AAC should work. Extracting AAC from the .ra files is no problem, if that's what it takes. The main reason they are currently written out as RM files is that this is what is supported throughout our system, and working out all the quirks with another fileformat takes some time. RealPlayer 10 Gold will most likely rip directly to AAC.

(toaster PC : very nice, but mine overheats a little too easy when encoding. Then it gets very noisy with its small power supply fan)
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Old 9th January 2004, 09:40   #56  |  Link
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Karl,

I did an encode last night using rv9 ehq and cook 5.1.

When i play it in the new real player the visual stutters and the sound doesnt play properly (like when the old reg hacks werent done).

I can play it in mpc though.

Question as well, if i want 6ch playback in mpc, where can this be set?

Is the new aac based 5.1 technically better than the cook 6ch and if I encoded using the new codec would this help with the sound issues above.

I used the reg hack for 1st pass vbr ehq and for the 1st time I have found that the resultant avg video bitrate and total file size were out.

Predicted avg should of been 1793kps and it ended up 1693kps

Predicted final file size should of been 1860Mb and it was 1875Mb

Not much difference on file size but the bitrate and bits/pixel are way off.

Is this something that happens because of the different EHQ settings?

Thanks for all the good work.

Data

Addition, I see the visual problem does exist in mpc also.

Should I revert back to realone with the 5.1 reg hack and modded files?

Last edited by datascab; 9th January 2004 at 10:05.
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Old 9th January 2004, 11:31   #57  |  Link
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is the he-aac dll also included in the helix sdk?

Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
any player that will support AAC should work. Extracting AAC from the .ra files is no problem, if that's what it takes. The main reason they are currently written out as RM files is that this is what is supported throughout our system, and working out all the quirks with another fileformat takes some time. RealPlayer 10 Gold will most likely rip directly to AAC.
i doubt that currently available aac players will play aac-in-ra or even plain .aac files
afaik as good as all important ones (ie ipod) need them in the mp4 container

aac-in-mp4 is simply the mpeg-4 spec compliant way:
you cant really seperate the two as you store the tags in mp4, the flag for he-aac is on mp4 level (you dont find an info if the stream is he-aac or not in the .aac file), the postgain flag is in mp4, the gapless playback is stored on mp4 level aso...
to sum it up you could say mp4 and aac have some sort of symbiosis

also (till now) all aac encoders output .mp4 files by default...

i hope real will not make a difference here cause i think it will only result in a mess and will strengthen m$ with its wm system

we, the users, need as much interoperability as possible!
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Old 9th January 2004, 15:24   #58  |  Link
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Is AAC recoreded as a "stéréo-music" or a "surround" codec? Does it supports 48kHz freq?
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Old 9th January 2004, 15:31   #59  |  Link
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Hey Siber,

I think I read that the new aac based codec is only for stereo and only @ 44.1kHz.

I'm sure Karl can clarify this.

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Old 9th January 2004, 15:41   #60  |  Link
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Sirber
of course you dont have to use reals aac codec!
simply use neros aac codec and enjoy multichannel and 48khz (in realplayer or whereever else you want to play it)

mpeg-4 gives you the freedom of choice (once again thats the beauty of it )
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