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Old 31st January 2004, 20:17   #201  |  Link
bond
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it can definitely be that aac is more complex than mp3
the aac guys again claim that vorbis is even more complex than aac etc...
hm i am surely not the right one to ask, what format needs what processor power on what devices aso

hm about he-aac i also guess that compared to aac its harder to decode, but he-aac is also used by the digital radio mondial system, which maybe also had "small devices" as recievers in mind...

well whatever, as long as it decodes on my poor p3 866mhz
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Old 1st February 2004, 01:27   #202  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
before claiming that the test could be biased better read how it was done
Thanks for the information. I barely have time to keep up with this thread much less keep up with every detail of the latest in music compression formats and tests. Your direction helps.

A blind test does help eliminate bias a lot, but I am not sure it can eliminate all bias. If I listen to mp3's all the time, I can probably better pick out an mp3 in a line up than another format because my ears are tuned to listening to mp3s. This "picking out" may not be intentional either. It may be simply subliminal preference.

Despite all of Pepsi's intentions, I still don't think Pepsi tastes better than Coke despite their blind taste tests. I can find the Coke in a Pepsi challenge.

I guess I was looking for something a little more precise than a blind listening test. I mean, we can take an image, copy it, and then pass both images through an analysis program and see how they differ. It would seem the copy with the lowest delta would be best.
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Old 1st February 2004, 01:41   #203  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
kamiller42:

I don't have a system with RealOne V2, so I am not 100% sure I remember this feature. However, it seems in RealPlayer 10, you have both hyperlinks and pulldown-menus to navigate back up the library tree. See this snapshot:
Great!! I am glad to see the feature is still there. The application looks the same in a lot of ways, but I'm still getting used to the subtle differences. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Quote:
I would recommend AAC at 192 kbps, which I think there is wide agreement is very close to transparancy, and sounds better than HE-AAC at 96 kbps. This will play fine on devices that support AAC. I know of the iPod right now, others are probably soon arriving. Since RealPlayer 10 currently rips to .ra, you will have to go through some trans-muxing steps to convert to a device friendly format, until RealPlayer 10 Gold ships. See my FAQ in the first post.
That paragraph alone is worth its weight in gold. I've been going back and forth trying to find my "next generation" audio format, and now you've helped me answer that question.

You mentioned you're ripping to AAC 192kbps. I assume you're talking about ripping and encoding with the RealPlayer or encoder in .ra format. I'm ready to rip to 192 AAC, but I would like to avoid any rework if things are different when Real 10 Gold releases. Then again, I am not sure how or if things will be radically different when Gold releases. I guess I'll have to wait.
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Old 1st February 2004, 10:09   #204  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by kamiller42
A blind test does help eliminate bias a lot, but I am not sure it can eliminate all bias. If I listen to mp3's all the time, I can probably better pick out an mp3 in a line up than another format because my ears are tuned to listening to mp3s. This "picking out" may not be intentional either. It may be simply subliminal preference
if you have the interest and are fast there is atm such a blind listening test running on mp3 @ 128kbps
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/mp3-128/presentation.html

have a look at it but hurry up, today is the last day!
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Old 3rd February 2004, 07:57   #205  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by kamiller42
You mentioned you're ripping to AAC 192kbps. I assume you're talking about ripping and encoding with the RealPlayer or encoder in.ra format. I'm ready to rip to 192 AAC, but I would like to avoid any rework if things are different when Real 10 Gold releases.
Actually, since RealPlayer 10 is still Beta, and to avoid any extra work converting files later, by finding a complex solution to a automate the procedure now I am currently using an alternative solution to encode my CDs: Exact Audio Copy (EAC) with its command line encoder interface to do one of two:
1) EAC calls the RealProducer command line, which outputs AAC in .ra, then automatically and losslessly convert those files to .mkv, then too .aac, finally converting .aac to .m4a, and add tags. I described this earlier in the thread, but as you can see, there are many steps involved. Easier is
2) as discussed on hydrogenaudio, EAC calls command line nencode.exe, an interface to the Nero AAC encoder. The output is .m4a directly, and all that is needed now is to add tags.
Neither is all that easy to get started with, especially 1), but works well enough once up and running.

RealPlayer does include a "Convert Media" function which when Gold ships, can probably be used to convert losslessly from your .RA files to .M4A. However, since RealPlayer 10 Gold functionality in this respect is not yet certain and since it is Beta, I would probably recommend waiting. It should not be too long.
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Old 3rd February 2004, 14:45   #206  |  Link
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thanks for your efforts karl

i guess the most easiest way to rip and encode to real mp4/m4a files is using itunes!
it includes one of the best (independantly prooven) aac codecs, is available for free and outputs real mp4/m4a files right away

it should be the best/easiest solution for newbies and people who want quick solutions

for other freaks, which maybe like he-aac too, the two ways you described should work best
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Old 3rd February 2004, 15:39   #207  |  Link
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maybe someone could write a MP4 outout plugin for producer, like the MKV one
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Old 3rd February 2004, 16:23   #208  |  Link
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Hi everyone,

I've just generated some RealAudio 10 encodes at different bitrates using RealPlayer 10 beta.

Can you please refresh my memory/confirm which codec and AAC complexity was used at following bitrates: -

32kbps
64kbps
96kbps
128kbps
160kbps
192kbps
256kbps
320kbps

Sorry to be a pain!

Cheers
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Old 3rd February 2004, 16:44   #209  |  Link
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Few points to made across........

1. Yes it is a fact that vobris is more complex than AAC. It was never designed with that in mind. AAC ( hi, bond? a open standard ^_^ ) has huge backing from the industry which means optimazation is faster.

2. Even though HE AAC is complex, by the time these tiny devices are widely avalible to play them, there processing power has gone up and decoder would have been better. Not to mention the new Paramatric Stero mode which suppose to increase quality at low bitrate ~ 24kbps.
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Old 3rd February 2004, 21:06   #210  |  Link
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Further to my previous post, the encodes sound a bit distorted!

Has anybody else reported this?

Cheers
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Old 3rd February 2004, 21:29   #211  |  Link
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SeeMoreDigital: 32 and 64 are cook. 96 and above AAC. Note that you can use D-C's useful RM analyzer/shell extension and get all the details when right clicking on any RealMedia file (rename to .rm first, D-C did not know about .ra when he wrote his tool).

Re distortion: no, not to my knowledge. I have been playing these files in many different players, and/or after various conversions to other container formats, and not noticed any problem. What kind of distortion, and which of the codec flavors? There are a number of steps you can do to isolate the problem : change player, change decoder, change format (to mkv, then aac).
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Old 3rd February 2004, 21:40   #212  |  Link
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I've been playing the RealMedia .ra encodes using my Xcard (yep it can play these files too!). I noticed the disortion when comparing the rips ones I made using dbPowerAMP.

I've posted some links to the files here: -

Created_using_RealMedia_AAC@96kbps.ra
Created_using_dbPowerAmp_AAC@96kbps.mp4

It might well be just an Xcard thing.

Cheers
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Old 3rd February 2004, 22:02   #213  |  Link
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Thanks. I think it is the Xcard. Both your samples sound fine here, RA played in RealPlayer and MPC (w 3ivx LC-AAC decoder), MP4 played in RealPlayer, MPC, and foobar2000.
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Old 3rd February 2004, 22:15   #214  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Thanks. I think it is the Xcard. Both your samples sound fine here, RA played in RealPlayer and MPC (w 3ivx LC-AAC decoder), MP4 played in RealPlayer, MPC, and foobar2000.
That's good to know.

I'll pass this info on to the guys at JovePlayer. After all, if it was'nt for them, I would not be able to watch all my wonderful .rmvb encodes on my TV via RGB/component video!

Thanks again
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Old 6th February 2004, 18:27   #215  |  Link
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For some reason I'm having problem with playing back a realaudio file. Can someone please give me the various names of the sipr dll. Thanks.
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Old 7th February 2004, 15:53   #216  |  Link
Shinobu
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try to install my decoding pack, it's in frensh but easy to understand and it can decode lots of vidéo file included all real file, mkv, mp4, mpeg4, vp6 .... it's a pack of filter so it won't distrub your codec install ++

http://satsuki.yatoshi.free.fr/
download =>

Satsuki.Decoder.Pack Version 1.0.1.9 (4.29Mo)
give it a try, i think it's a very usefull pack, i might trad it in english someday ^^

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Old 21st February 2004, 02:11   #217  |  Link
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File sharing now works on the new helixcommunity.org, but it will take some time to get all the previous binary releases in place. In the meantime, I have made available the DLLs that fix the problem playing back HE-AAC (racp) in RealPlayer 10 Beta:

HE-AAC (racp) fix for RealPlayer 10 Beta

If you have not already signed up, you have sign up to gain access to this. If you have signed up in the past, but not yet accessed the new site, you need to reset your password.

I have updated the FAQ in the beginning of this thread.
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Last edited by karl_lillevold; 23rd February 2004 at 21:06.
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Old 16th May 2004, 14:32   #218  |  Link
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What is the difference between raac-2 and raac-7 ?

And could somebody kind enough to give a complete list of cook,raac and racp profiles?

like this:

------------------------------------------------------------
64 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 racp 0 44.1 kHz
96 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 racp 1 44.1 kHz
128 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 racp 2 44.1 kHz
------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 16th May 2004, 16:24   #219  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanielSun
What is the difference between raac-2 and raac-7 ?

And could somebody kind enough to give a complete list of cook,raac and racp profiles?

like this:

------------------------------------------------------------
64 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 racp 0 44.1 kHz
96 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 racp 1 44.1 kHz
128 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10 racp 2 44.1 kHz
------------------------------------------------------------

The full list of codec flavors can be seen in the documentation that e.g.came with Helix Producer. Have a look at producer/docs/docs/AudienceFile.htm#Audio_Codec_Tables.
The documentation is available at Helixcomnuity, too, but i do not have the URL right away. But i am sure one can make its way through that side.

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Old 16th May 2004, 16:25   #220  |  Link
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Loock at the documention of the audiance in producer, you'll find all the audio descrition you search

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