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25th September 2018, 17:24 | #52721 | Link |
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@nevcairiel
correctly. properly used bit deep will lower the noise floor and depending on the source notable. i will not dare to say PQ is worse than gamma and they help extreme for lossy compression just like bit deep. but in the end the dispaly will convert everything to something close to gamma with the extra use of the backlight. how do you even create a transistor powered pixel response like PQ with a dynamic brightness? and would it even help at all. fun fact gamma was an artifactly by product from CRTs because that'S how they responded which helps quite alot for image compression these days just imaging it would be linear. but it was not created for SDR in mind it's just what we got. @Warner306 colors have little to nothing to do with gamma or PQ. the color differences don't come from banding or bit deep relations. my first guess would be gamut mapping. that'S the problem of these test they don't dither properly if they dod they would "only" talk about noise not banding. |
25th September 2018, 17:45 | #52722 | Link |
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The thing with Oleds is, they are terrible at near-blacks. Not only the uniformity but also the near-black gradation so I totally don't mind some dithering noise which hides this ugliness a little bit and also makes the gradation a little smoother. I wish Oleds would just dither the near-blacks by default like plasmas did. This would solve alot of problems and only cause a bit of noise.
edit: madshi should implement some algorithm to madVR for Oled owners that does heavy dithering to near-blacks and less and less on brighter parts of the picture. Last edited by j82k; 25th September 2018 at 17:52. |
25th September 2018, 18:45 | #52723 | Link | |||||||||||||||||||
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Personally, I don't think that's the purpose of HDR. So your question is quite valid. FWIW, the new "report BT.2020 to display" option might help a little, *if* your TV somehow reacts to that. But I suppose most TVs won't. With my projector, SDR is relatively bright, and HDR is quite a bit darker. But that's fine for me. Of course I could try to make SDR darker to match HDR, but what's the point of that? Our eyes adjust very quickly to different brightness levels, at least in a bat cave like mine... Quote:
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The key difference is that sending PQ means your TV will activate its own HDR -> SDR algorithm. While when sending power/BT.709 gamma, the TV will deactivate it's HDR -> SDR algorithm, and madVR can do that processing instead. Quote:
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For encoding/mastering, dithering doesn't work well. The reason for that is that videos are lossily encoded, and lossy encoders have trouble with noise, grain and dithering. You need to use very high encoding bitrates to make sure that noise, grain and dithering doesn't get completely lost. And even with high bitrates, that stuff still gets lost to some extent. Because of that, for encoding/mastering it's important to have high bitdepth, and PQ helps there, too, with it's more intelligent gamma curves. However, during playback/rendering, the whole chain is fully lossless. There's no lossy compression going on anywhere in between madVR and TV. So every dithered bit should reach the display untouched. As a result, bitdepth is much less important, because madVR's dithering is of very high quality. PQ has the benefit (and curse) of defining an exact nits value for each pixel. But there's not a single consumer display (I know of) that can render BT.2020 10,000nits. So every TV out there has to process the PQ data in such a way that it is fairly represented within the technical limitations of the TV. This process of dumbing the PQ/HDR data down to the capabilities of the TV is usually called "tone mapping". You can let your TV do that, or you can let madVR do that. Which would you rather trust to do this processing in highest quality? There's no HDR magic going on in TVs. Sending HDR content untouched as PQ to the TV from madVR doesn't magically turn your TV into a HDR miracle. Your TV will simply internally convert PQ to whatever internal format the TV works with. If you let madVR send power/BT.709 gamma to your TV, you simply move the tone mapping from your TV to madVR. That's it. The only difference between an HDR and SDR display is that the HDR TV has a firmware which can do tone mapping. (Ok, some TVs might switch to "overdrive" mode when receiving PQ data.) Quote:
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25th September 2018, 19:32 | #52724 | Link | |
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However if you turn it off it will be off for gaming and TV too where you are most likely yo get static images and therefore burn in. ABL is also something you should not turn off but I have, I just couldnt live with it. I dont doing gaming and I use an all back them / audio hide my taskbar etc etc. So far no problems and my OLED will be 3 years old shortly.
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LG OLED EF950-YAM RX-V685-RYZEN 3600 - 16GBRAM - WIN10 RX 5700 - https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions |
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25th September 2018, 19:32 | #52725 | Link | |
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When using the HDR pixel shader math option the image is EXTREMELY dark. This was reported earlier for v0.9.16 I believe.
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25th September 2018, 20:44 | #52726 | Link | |
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25th September 2018, 20:52 | #52727 | Link | |
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Separate issue....HDR using pixel shader math (meaning sending HDR as you know) is very dark no matter what it's set to. That's recent to v0.9.16. So two completely different things.
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HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED |
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25th September 2018, 21:03 | #52730 | Link |
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On my plasma I'm setting HDR nits to 200 and it's plenty bright.
I use one of the three calibrated profiles (there's Custom, Pro 1, Pro 2) which I've set to maximum brightness, and manualy select it when I play an HDR movie with madVR.
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25th September 2018, 21:12 | #52731 | Link | |
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The only reason it's on PC mode to begin with is because that's how the calibrator set it up, starting playback and MadVR display mode switching turns the TV into Home Theatre mode and onto the calibrated settings Now that I think about it I could just leave it in home theatre mode all the time For reference, the earlier reply to my post in March about colour differences for HDR in PC vs HT is here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...56#post1837356 "On 2016 LG Oleds (not sure about 2017) HDR is messed up when using PC HDMI input icon. Not sure what the TV is doing with HDR in pc-mode but it looks as if it was using a wrong color gamut or something like that. I haven't watched mad max in HDR yet, so I don't know how colorful it is but other movies will look desaturated and dull when using pc-mode HDR. " "Home Theater seems to have much better coverage on my TV. It is still mostly 4:4:4 but 4:2:2 shows up more than it does when set to PC, so there is extra processing that has some color blending. Good for video but not great for a monitor or precise chroma upscaling." "Make sure you enable Deep Color on that HDMI input, because my E6 does UHD at 23.976 / 24 on the PC label. However, PC label absolutely ruins HDR on the LG E6, locks settings, and makes it look washed out. You also cannot get 4:4:4 without using the "PC" label. So if you are using the display as both a desktop monitor and an HTPC, gotta switch between PC mode and non-PC mode depending on HDR. It sucks, shame on LG for never fixing it. " So I guess you could leave it on Home Theatre if all you do is watch video's, but my PC is not just a HTPC Last edited by famasfilms; 25th September 2018 at 21:17. |
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25th September 2018, 22:27 | #52732 | Link | ||
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Maybe 2016 and 2017 models will follow.... Only took them 2.5 years. Quote:
Someone buy madshi an Oled. |
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25th September 2018, 22:30 | #52733 | Link | |
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 25th September 2018 at 22:33. |
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26th September 2018, 10:09 | #52736 | Link | |
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26th September 2018, 10:18 | #52737 | Link |
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I considered that, but then my Desktop/10ft interface would still be burning. No good solutions!
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
26th September 2018, 10:31 | #52739 | Link |
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Not that I'm aware of. But i guess I could explore what CEC might offer. Maybe two inputs with automatic switching through CEC might work, even if a bit of a yanky setup.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
26th September 2018, 11:21 | #52740 | Link | |
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But then I decided to leave the machine running for the night, with monitors in sleep, and bam in the morning that video won't play. So at this point I don't believe just changing madVR settings will help. I'll temporary revert this JRiver profile to EVR, but after madVR the picture is not sharp at all) Last edited by jokerb47; 26th September 2018 at 11:23. |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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