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14th May 2018, 15:23 | #1 | Link |
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AVX512 vs Threadripper in x265
Im currently looking to buy a new render/encoding system.
I can't decide if I should get the threadripper 1950x or the i9 7900x... Looking at several benchmarks and reviews, Threadripper seems to perform really well overall, but what is making me doubt is the lack of AVX512 support. Since I'm also going to offload a lot of 3D rendering to this system it might be important, but it's hard to tell because I currently I don't know any rendering software that already has AVX512 support. So I cant find any benchmarks that show me how much of a difference it'll make. I've always hold off buying a new system because I read how much difference AVX512 could potentially make... But looking at x265's AVX512 results posted here it seems not to be really worth it... Or might that be because the AVX512 code is not fully ready/optimized yet (considering its only recently added)? Also, a bit off topic but 3D rendering (ray-tracing) is totally different so I'm wondering how much of a difference AVX512 can make there... (currently no renderer supports it so I have no clue since I know nothing about coding, instruction sets and related maths). ahhhrgh choices choices.... |
14th May 2018, 18:12 | #2 | Link |
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From what I remember from the benchmarks, Zen (and thus Threadripper) has some of its strongest results in 3d rendering. It's probably suited it for it even better than for encoding.
If you are not in hurry, you might want to wait till august, that's when the second generation should launch. And in second half of the year, Intel should have i9-7900X replacement too. On the other hand, now you can get discounts on the current generation, although mainly in USA. |
15th May 2018, 03:31 | #3 | Link |
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AVX512 is so badly memory and power bound that x265 can rarely use it effectively. For power, that means tweaking the BIOS and having a very solid cooling solution lined up, because I've heard of AVX512 alone exceeding 300W in unrestricted environments, in addition to the rest of the CPU and system, and for memory, that basically means buying the biggest i9 you can afford (since more cores = more cache = lower latency). Short of that, the investment probably isn't worth it.
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15th May 2018, 16:38 | #4 | Link | |
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You have no choice. Nothing. Nothing at all. Between 7900x and 1950x you can only buy one processor and that is of course 1950x or 2950x that will be released at Q3 2018. The overall difference, as you already know, is huge favoring 1950x especially on rendering/ encoding and AVX512 is nonsense, pure nonsense for almost any task for desktop or even workstation. You need 6 channel or 8 channel DDR4 or maybe DDR5 (2019/2020) to leverage effectively AVX512 and water cooling in most cases. Let's forget AVX512 for the next 5 years for desktop and workstation.
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16th May 2018, 05:14 | #6 | Link | |
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AVX512 is not going to make a difference for at least another 3-4 generations, IF that. |
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17th May 2018, 14:46 | #7 | Link |
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ok, thanks for the help guys... You helped me make up my mind
I think i'll wait a little longer until Q3-Q4. I can imagine i'd be quite disappointed to invest that amount of money for something that will be updated/replaced only in a month or 5-6. |
17th May 2018, 16:32 | #8 | Link | |
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17th May 2018, 22:36 | #9 | Link | |
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- Well after getting my 8700k yesterday, I finally see what everyone is talking about with core saturation. I'm only getting about 66% cpu use, with moderate vsynth + x265. (576p so far) Am I correct that the best way around this is to run two encodes at the same time? Cheers, Divxmaster |
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17th May 2018, 23:48 | #10 | Link |
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Yes, two encodes at once. Also larger resolutions and slower settings utilize more cores effectively.
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madVR options explained |
18th May 2018, 15:21 | #11 | Link |
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Or wait again until mid 2019 for threadripper (24C/48T) with better AVX unit in 7nm...
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Windows 7 Image Updater - SkyLake\KabyLake\CoffeLake\Ryzen Threadripper |
19th May 2018, 03:25 | #12 | Link | |
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Cheers, Divxmaster |
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19th May 2018, 11:09 | #13 | Link | ||
RipBot264 author
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Regarding AVX-512. Is it me or implementation of AVX-512 in x265 was a waste of time? https://networkbuilders.intel.com/do...nsions-512.pdf Quote:
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Windows 7 Image Updater - SkyLake\KabyLake\CoffeLake\Ryzen Threadripper Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 19th May 2018 at 11:16. |
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20th May 2018, 09:00 | #16 | Link | |
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Consumers are merely enjoying the consequences of the base encoder being open-source. Most of MCW's HEVC products are propietary. Specifically regarding AVX512, see here: https://www.intel.com.au/content/www...ms-uhdkit.html So, if you don't want to rapidly encode 20 target variations of the one master source, don't have the requisite farm of US$10000 server processors, don't want to encode 4:2:2 4K60 in real-time, or don't actually even use UHDKit (which, I'm guessing, cleverly compartmentalises AVX512 API workloads), then it's easy to dismiss the last year's worth of development as wasted. |
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20th May 2018, 13:05 | #17 | Link | |
Testeur de codecs
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Quote:
Well I thing that gain in 1080p resolution are realistic. 7900X is 10C/20T CPU. x265 in 1080p can't saturate 8C/16T CPU. 1080p for 8C/16T is something like 60-70% for CPU charge. In this case, no power problem here, and no offset for frequency are necessary (real power will be under TDP).
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Le Sagittaire ... ;-) 1- Ateme AVC or x264 2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime 3- XviD, DivX or WMV9 |
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20th May 2018, 15:15 | #18 | Link |
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
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IMHO, implementing it was not a waste of time because theory promised the existence of hardware and usage cases where the efficiency advantage could be considerable; but you can't be sure until proven (either right or wrong) by practical tests. And who knows the future ... I won't be surprised if the implementation in x265 may help the designers of coming CPU generations to avoid flaws of the previous.
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24th May 2018, 03:01 | #19 | Link | |
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Skylake-X has > 50% IPC advantage in the most recent encoder version over Ryzen, due to AVX2 (+41.7%) and AVX512 (+6.1%). Obviously Skylake-X is expensive and the power consumption is rather brutal, but regardless for typical end-user scenarios you're better basically with anything else than Threadripper. On a budget used MCC or HCC Haswell-EP CPUs are probably the best way to go. |
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24th May 2018, 06:45 | #20 | Link | |
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Quote:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=175467 |
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