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Old 25th September 2012, 10:13   #14141  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Tried the new version and it s working flawlessly on my GTX460:

+1 for skipping exclusive fullscreen mode in the next version. Not needed anymore!
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Old 25th September 2012, 10:22   #14142  |  Link
Jong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
Tried the new version and it s working flawlessly on my GTX460:

+1 for skipping exclusive fullscreen mode in the next version. Not needed anymore!
This isn't true. Read what Madshi said on this yesterday:
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not moving away from FSE at all. Overlay mode is not really meant (by me) to replace FSE. It's meant to replace conventional windowed mode. Personally, I'll stay with FSE for fullscreen movie playback because it is more likely to produce stable and smooth output.

Technically, with Overlay, I can present one frame in advance. So if there's some timing glitch (maybe the CPU is busy doing something else), a frame drop could occur. With FSE mode, if you prepresent multiple frames in advance, there should be no frame drop, even if the CPU is busy for a relatively long time.
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:00   #14143  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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So why would anyone want to use Overlay Mode when playing content in fullscreen if FSE is simply better when running content in fullscreen??
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:13   #14144  |  Link
cyberbeing
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If you have a lower powered GPU which struggles or has issues with madVR's Windowed or FSE modes, Overlay should be significantly faster.

Speed: Overlay > Windowed > FSE
Quality: FSE > Windowed > Overlay
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:13   #14145  |  Link
ryrynz
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One reason I can think of is using the seekbar and multimedia controls in the player UI. This is where FSE falls a little flat right now. Also for some people FSE might not work 100% (dropping frames etc) not sure this is really much of an issue anymore though, but it certainly pays to have options.
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:14   #14146  |  Link
DragonQ
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I never liked overlay in the old XP + WMP days. Bad colours and couldn't take screenshots.
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HTPC Hardware: Intel Celeron G530; nVidia GT 430
HTPC Software: Windows 7; MediaPortal 1.19.0; Kodi DSPlayer 17.6; LAV Filters (DXVA2); MadVR
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:28   #14147  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Mock up of FSE mode seekbar with filename displayed on the left. Some comments on this please.
I like the missing vertical bar. Looks better this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
If I pause playback and move the window around the screen the image doesn't refresh inside the window until I press play, thus the video image is outside the window and remains so until I move it back to it's original location.
Really? That's weird. I explicitly tested that and believed to have it fixed. Does everybody has the same problem?

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Originally Posted by naoan View Post
Hey madshi, just to be clear, if we have ATi card is the overlay mode automaticallly disabled even though the option is ticked?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by detmek View Post
I get an error "Resetting Direct3D failled (8876086c)" and video pauses with 0.83.4 build if I:
1. Check Overlay and FSE in settings
2. Open video
3. Go into full screen
4. Reopen video (Ctrl+E)
5. Go back to windowed overlay mode.
madVR - log
madVR - log1
I tried MPC-BE and PotPlayer.
Thanks, will have a look at your logs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
So why would anyone want to use Overlay Mode when playing content in fullscreen if FSE is simply better when running content in fullscreen??
Reread Jong's comment, it's explained there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Speed: Overlay > Windowed > FSE
I disagree. FSE should actually be the fastest mode. And on my PCs (both AMD and NVidia) it most definitely is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
I never liked overlay in the old XP + WMP days. Bad colours and couldn't take screenshots.
Do you have bad colors with v0.83.4 when using Overlay mode? I don't think so, but if you have, please let me know!
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:41   #14148  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I disagree. FSE should actually be the fastest mode. And on my PCs (both AMD and NVidia) it most definitely is.
That's never been the case on my PCs, and I've told you as much in the past when I had my 7800GTX 512.
Even with my NVIDIA GT440 DDR5 & ATI 5750 in my new computers, Windowed mode results is lower GPU load than FSE.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 25th September 2012 at 12:58.
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:52   #14149  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I like the missing vertical bar. Looks better this way.
*Fistpump* Now if I could only get people to comment on the filename being displayed too =/ At least I know your paying attention Madshi

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Really? That's weird.
Mmm, interested to see others results. Guys can you pause the video whilst windowed and move the window around, does the video frame track with the window?
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Old 25th September 2012, 12:57   #14150  |  Link
madshi
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That's never been the case on my PCs, and I've told you as much in the past when I had my 7800GTX 512. Even with my GT440 Windowed mode results is lower GPU load than FSE.
What I said is true for the typical usage scenario. You're using very high refresh rates, IIRC? That's a different situation. With high refresh rates, FSE mode has to do more work than windowed mode, that's why you're seeing higher GPU load. But that's really not the typical usage scenario. Most people today have matching refresh rate = movie frame rate, and in that situation FSE mode is faster than windowed mode.
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Old 25th September 2012, 13:18   #14151  |  Link
cyberbeing
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I'll take your word for it then, since I've only tested between 48Hz-120Hz where Overlay > Windowed > FSE in terms of speed.

I'm still a bit curious as to how it's possible that you measured Overlay be slower than FSE @24hz? Shouldn't Overlay be doing the least work out of all the rendering modes?

Last edited by cyberbeing; 25th September 2012 at 13:45.
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Old 25th September 2012, 13:50   #14152  |  Link
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Technically, with Overlay, I can present one frame in advance. So if there's some timing glitch (maybe the CPU is busy doing something else), a frame drop could occur. With FSE mode, if you prepresent multiple frames in advance, there should be no frame drop, even if the CPU is busy for a relatively long time.
How about using FlipEx? Isn't it similar?
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Old 25th September 2012, 14:23   #14153  |  Link
madshi
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I'll take your word for it then, since I've only tested between 48Hz-120Hz where Overlay > Windowed > FSE in terms of speed.

I'm still a bit curious as to how it's possible that you measured Overlay be slower than FSE @24hz? Shouldn't Overlay be doing the least work out of all the rendering modes?
I haven't actually tested Overlay speed yet. I was mostly talking about FSE <-> windowed. From a purely technical point of view, Overlay and FSE should be comparable in speed, if the movie frame rate matches the display refresh rate.

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How about using FlipEx? Isn't it similar?
I can only use FlipEx or Overlay, but not both at the same time.
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Old 25th September 2012, 15:00   #14154  |  Link
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I am having problems playing a test clip. http://hdcam.web-pda.info/

birds - 18514072.mp4

MadVR says the source filter is reporting it as 1.000FPS and playing it at 23.976Hz using MadVR auto-switching which is obviously incorrect as the video is 59.940FPS. Using EVR instead of MadVR and it plays at the correct refresh rate.

Using latest LAV filters for splitting and decoding.

Also if I add the line 1080p60 and play the 4.Girls.YoonYoon-1080p60fpsRef5-21Mbps.mkv test clip it plays at 60Hz when the source filter says 59.940FPS.

Any ideas?
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Old 25th September 2012, 15:12   #14155  |  Link
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Yes.
Thanks. IMO You might as well hide it for ATi users to prevent user confusion then, though is there any chance to have it available on ATi card? or is it completely unusable due to their bad driver?
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Old 25th September 2012, 15:24   #14156  |  Link
cyberbeing
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When you get around to updating 'madVR [benchmark]', will it be possible to add a modes for benchmarking the maximum achievable fps with each (Overlay/Windowed/FSE) rendering method?

Also semi-related, have you had any further thoughts about allowing high framerate (i.e. 60fps+) video to have it's own section so lighter weight settings could be specified? Or maybe add something like a temporary emergency fallback, when madVR detects performance is below a certain threshold at the beginning of playback?
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Old 25th September 2012, 15:29   #14157  |  Link
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bLight the Zoomplayer Developer asked me to post my madvr/Zoomplayer Error here.

I get an "Unbekannter Fehler" after switching the display mode between 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p59.

This only happens with newer Zoomplayer Versions 8.5 pre and rc1. Zoomplayer 8.16 and also MPC-HC is not affected.

madvr 0.82.5 , 0.83.1 and 0.83.4 tested. All give this Error with the newer Zoomplayer Versions. The second Error (Application Error) only happens with the newer Versions 0.83.* and only sometimes.



Zoomplayer Bugtracker

Link to a Debug-Log while the Error was displayed:
Log
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Old 25th September 2012, 15:42   #14158  |  Link
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Originally Posted by naoan View Post
Thanks. IMO You might as well hide it for ATi users to prevent user confusion then, though is there any chance to have it available on ATi card? or is it completely unusable due to their bad driver?
Some users might have a dual Intel/ATI setup, sometimes using the Intel GPU, sometimes the ATI GPU. So hiding this setting isn't a good idea because they might want to use overlay for the Intel GPU. Also, maybe some future AMD driver will enable overlay. So I prefer to keep the checkbox.

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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
When you get around to updating 'madVR [benchmark]', will it be possible to add a modes for benchmarking the maximum achievable fps with each (Overlay/Windowed/FSE) rendering method?

Also semi-related, have you had any further thoughts about allowing high framerate (i.e. 60fps+) video to have it's own section so lighter weight settings could be specified? Or maybe add something like a temporary emergency fallback, when madVR detects performance is below a certain threshold at the beginning of playback?
These are all things I'll eventually implement, when I find the time.

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Originally Posted by Prinz View Post
bLight the Zoomplayer Developer asked me to post my madvr/Zoomplayer Error here.
I'm sorry to do this to you, but I don't think there's much I can do about the problem without futher information. I simply don't have enough information to locate the problem. For all I know, it could be in ZoomPlayer just as much as it could be in madVR. What would really help would be if Blight could compile a Zoomplayer test build with "madExcept" enabled. That way we would get more useful crash information. If you tell him that, he'll know what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball View Post
I am having problems playing a test clip. http://hdcam.web-pda.info/

birds - 18514072.mp4

MadVR says the source filter is reporting it as 1.000FPS
And madVR is correct about that. It seems to be a bug in LAV, so please report it to Nev in the LAV thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball View Post
Also if I add the line 1080p60 and play the 4.Girls.YoonYoon-1080p60fpsRef5-21Mbps.mkv test clip it plays at 60Hz when the source filter says 59.940FPS.
If you add such a tag to a file name, madVR thinks that you want to overwrite the frame rate to 60.000Hz. That's not a bug but intended behaviour. Change it to 1080p59 and the problem should go away.
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Old 25th September 2012, 16:01   #14159  |  Link
oddball
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Thanks. I will report that bug to Nev. Also when playing back a 29.970FPS file that uses frame decimation to achieve 23.976fps MadVR will switch to 59.940Hz if the switch 1080p59 is used alongside any others. However if I don't use that switch in MadVR and use MPC-HC auto-switching instead (still using MadVR as the renderer) then it is decimated to the correct 23.976 (MadVR shows lots of dropped frames which I assume is correct as the video playback is smooth as silk). I tried adding 1080i29 to see if it helped but MadVR insists on switching to 59.940Hz when it should be 23.967Hz for frame decimation to work???

Or am I doing something wrong and the dropped frames are not due to frame decimation?
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Old 25th September 2012, 16:02   #14160  |  Link
Pat357
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Mock up of FSE mode seekbar with filename displayed on the left. Some comments on this please.

I like this !
It looks clean and "almost" professional
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