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Old 25th September 2017, 15:52   #45981  |  Link
noee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsh
Probably. Polaris is rather slow with madVR's NGU algorithm, though. So if you plan to use NGU, at this point I'd rather recommend an Nvidia GPU.
I'm currently testing an RX560 4G (MSI)* using quad NGU(High) for luma, NGU Med for chroma and SSIM100 LL downscaling, material is DVD to 1080P and it appears there is even more headroom. Very High NGU is a slide show, however. Would this be considered a hard load on the GPU? NGU seems to be very efficient.

Haven't tried scaling with DVD to 4K yet with this card.

*Win7, latest Crimson stuff, JRiver MC x64
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Old 25th September 2017, 16:40   #45982  |  Link
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How is your multi monitor setup configured? Are you using Clone or Extend or something else? In my setup I'm using Extend, which means that my computer monitor and my TV are two completely separate "monitors" to the OS. Does the madLevelsTweaker text change at all when you move it from one monitor to the other?
I am using Extend same as you because I need the monitors to have different refresh rates. The tool instantly has its text changed when moved across monitors, but if I go for Full on one monitor it appears as Full or "Force PC levels (0-255)" ticked on both.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The FAQ explains what happens in the background, and which effect setting the GPU control panel and madVR to 16-235 or 0-255 has exactly. As such it always applies, to any PC/situation.

I'm not sure why you're getting incorrect black levels with a proper setup. There must be something wrong somewhere, but it's hard for me to analyze from a distance.
But if everything works as intended in the NVIDIA CP and madVR then there has to be something with the TV, but the TV has only 1 setting regarding RGB and everything else are viewing modes which more or less alter sharpness, color, brightness and gamma and not much else.

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Are you using a dedicated PCIe GPU? Or are we talking Laptop? Can you make screenshots of your Nvidia control panel (all pages related to TV and color setup) and upload them somewhere for us to look at? Please don't post the images in full in this thread, just post links to the images here.
I am using an NVIDIA 1080 Ti and everything works with this graphics card exactly the same as it did with the NVIDIA 760 before it and an NVIDIA Titan even before that. The TV set remained the same.

The links below contain albums with the settings you requested, if you need more or missed something let me know and I will post it ASAP. The ones relating to the TV are in order, so if an option is highlighted in a screenshot the next image is that option's settings, otherwise there is a description on the top left corner.

NVIDIA CP: https://imgur.com/a/VXouP
TV: https://imgur.com/a/DtNcO
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Old 25th September 2017, 16:45   #45983  |  Link
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Originally Posted by noee View Post
I'm currently testing an RX560 4G (MSI)* using quad NGU(High) for luma, NGU Med for chroma and SSIM100 LL downscaling, material is DVD to 1080P and it appears there is even more headroom. Very High NGU is a slide show, however. Would this be considered a hard load on the GPU? NGU seems to be very efficient.

Haven't tried scaling with DVD to 4K yet with this card.

*Win7, latest Crimson stuff, JRiver MC x64
I'm interested in the RX560 too, but mostly for 4K HDR. Are you going to test it ?
Btw, which NGU have you tested, NGU AA, NGU Standard or NGU Sharp ?
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Old 25th September 2017, 16:57   #45984  |  Link
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Sounds good to me. See FAQ in the 2nd post of this thread.
Finally am home and was able to do some more testing of my equipment. So for me, my Panasonic plasma certainly "allows" limited and full, even on 3D playback. However, for 3D, it *MUST* receive limited in order for playback to be correct. If I use full, and I tested this on my xbox one just to be sure it wasn't something screwy with my HTPC, it will "ghost" the background. At least I can rule out the HTPC as being the problem. As I said, limited->full->limited works fine for me and your explanation of what's happening in the FAQ with those settings works for me. I may experiment with setting the TV to auto and using a profile to set madvr to full for all non-3D content and limited for 3D and see if that works.
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Old 25th September 2017, 17:00   #45985  |  Link
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I've tried to read few pages back but maybe I missed something, it seems like my LAV Video cannot see my GPU under "active hardware accelerator" no matter if I use native or copy-back, the result is always "none", I used to see it just a while ago before update madVR to 0.92.3, is it something related to madVR by the way?

I updated today to 0.92.4, but I didn't pay attention if this happened also with the 0.92.3, sorry If I am asking something wrong, here's a couple of screenshot:

https://imgur.com/a/AVpfD

Last edited by yukinok25; 25th September 2017 at 17:02.
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Old 25th September 2017, 17:35   #45986  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
I'm interested in the RX560 too, but mostly for 4K HDR. Are you going to test it ?
Btw, which NGU have you tested, NGU AA, NGU Standard or NGU Sharp ?
I have a RX460 and there is no way to get ngu standard with 4k tv.
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Old 25th September 2017, 17:52   #45987  |  Link
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Originally Posted by yukinok25 View Post
I've tried to read few pages back but maybe I missed something, it seems like my LAV Video cannot see my GPU under "active hardware accelerator" no matter if I use native or copy-back, the result is always "none", I used to see it just a while ago before update madVR to 0.92.3, is it something related to madVR by the way?

I updated today to 0.92.4, but I didn't pay attention if this happened also with the 0.92.3, sorry If I am asking something wrong, here's a couple of screenshot:

https://imgur.com/a/AVpfD
when using D3D11 you will always get hardware decoding if it is a supported format madVR has nothing todo with it.

so the file is maybe incompatible
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Old 25th September 2017, 18:02   #45988  |  Link
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Is there any configuration in madvr where that setting touch the video range? Something like hardware upscaling

If that setting is working then video range will be PC Levels and with gpu output to limited and display expecting limited ... range levels would be correct even if madvr is sending limited.
I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you're saying. Can you clarify/explain?

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Errr... I have been talking about srt subs (embedded or external) not subpictures. Haven't you?
No, definitely not. This is why I don't like if people comment in this thread with "I have the same problem" or with "I noticed the same thing", because it's rarely really the same thing. The original user reported problems with DVD *menus*, not with external srt subs. So when you wrote you noticed the same thing, obviously I expected you were talking about DVD menus.

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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Finally am home and was able to do some more testing of my equipment. So for me, my Panasonic plasma certainly "allows" limited and full, even on 3D playback. However, for 3D, it *MUST* receive limited in order for playback to be correct. If I use full, and I tested this on my xbox one just to be sure it wasn't something screwy with my HTPC, it will "ghost" the background. At least I can rule out the HTPC as being the problem. As I said, limited->full->limited works fine for me and your explanation of what's happening in the FAQ with those settings works for me. I may experiment with setting the TV to auto and using a profile to set madvr to full for all non-3D content and limited for 3D and see if that works.
Interesting to hear. So your plasma is at fault here! But it's good to find these things out, so you can optimize the settings accordingly.

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Originally Posted by yukinok25 View Post
I've tried to read few pages back but maybe I missed something, it seems like my LAV Video cannot see my GPU under "active hardware accelerator" no matter if I use native or copy-back, the result is always "none", I used to see it just a while ago before update madVR to 0.92.3, is it something related to madVR by the way?

I updated today to 0.92.4, but I didn't pay attention if this happened also with the 0.92.3, sorry If I am asking something wrong, here's a couple of screenshot:

https://imgur.com/a/AVpfD
For LAV related questions, please ask in the LAV thread. This doesn't seem to be madVR specific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
The links below contain albums with the settings you requested, if you need more or missed something let me know and I will post it ASAP. The ones relating to the TV are in order, so if an option is highlighted in a screenshot the next image is that option's settings, otherwise there is a description on the top left corner.

NVIDIA CP: https://imgur.com/a/VXouP
TV: https://imgur.com/a/DtNcO
The Nvidia settings look alright to me. One thing to double check, though: For "Content type reported to the display" you have selected "Movies". Have you tried other settings there? This setting *could* have an effect, depending on whether your TV reacts to this or not.

Looking at your TV settings screenshots, the most important setting is probably "HDMI RGB Range", which you currently have set to "AUTO". Have you tried different settings there?

The "HDMI Content Type" settings in your TV also look like they could be related. Does changing that stuff do anything to your black and white levels?
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Old 25th September 2017, 18:18   #45989  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
I'm interested in the RX560 too, but mostly for 4K HDR. Are you going to test it ?
Btw, which NGU have you tested, NGU AA, NGU Standard or NGU Sharp ?
I've tested *all* variants of NGU doubling/quad-ing and very high is where it hits the wall -- hard. Again, with DVD 4x-ed/downscaled to 1080p.

I don't have a 4K/HDR screen currently and I have to give this machine up in a couple of days and the next build I do will most likely be with a Vega variant of some sort....I hope to have a 4K/HDR option available at that point (hopefully in a month or so).
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Old 25th September 2017, 18:31   #45990  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Interesting to hear. So your plasma is at fault here! But it's good to find these things out, so you can optimize the settings accordingly.
I was quite surprised by the result I got. However, the xbox one at RGB FULL showed the exact same problem that I got when I set madvr and gpu to full. Quite depressing as I don't see this issue with 2D playback, hence why I think I want to try a profile and set it to limited only for 3D. Very strange but at least now I know what's going on with it.
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Old 25th September 2017, 18:33   #45991  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
when using D3D11 you will always get hardware decoding if it is a supported format madVR has nothing todo with it.

so the file is maybe incompatible
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
For LAV related questions, please ask in the LAV thread. This doesn't seem to be madVR specific.
I thought so too madshi, just wanted to make sure with someone here first, thanks guys!



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Old 25th September 2017, 18:58   #45992  |  Link
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Well, I named the option "send HDR metadata to the display", but it might not be a totally accurate description. The option does multiple things, and how these things are named depends on the API set I'm using (Microsoft vs Nvidia vs AMD). E.g. with Nvidia I'm calling an "HdrColorControl" API to set the "HDR mode". Ideally, doing all this should only result in the "PQ" flag being sent to the display together with the SMPTE 2086 metadata. But it's a black box. The Nvidia driver may decide to change something else, too, when I call that API, like changing the color format from RGB to YCbCr or things like that. The API is not called "SetMetadata", but more something like "SetHdrMode".
As promised, I've done more tests and here is the temporary result:

1) I wanted to find a way to rule out the HDR metadata, so I used the Vertex to capture the full metadata sent by the GPU when the OS is set to enable HDR (here it is FYI, with the header: 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80:3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01). I then set the OS back to HDR off.

2) I placed an Integral between the AVR and the Vertex and I used the Integral to inject the exact same HDR infoframe (the OS was still set to SDR). I was able to switch the display to HDR without any magenta issue in 4K60p RGB 8bits.

So as expected, this is NOT a metadata issue or a bandwidth. It's something else done by the GPU.

I discussed this with HD Fury and they have identified the issue as being caused by the AVI Infoframe. They are working on it.

I'll keep you posted when I have some news, but I thought this interim report might be useful, in case it helps you to figure out what the nVidia API is doing wrong when you call it.

This is purely intended to provide you some feedback, I've followed your suggestion and am using profiles to disable metadata when fps is above 30, so from a user point of view I'm sorted for now.
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Old 25th September 2017, 19:40   #45993  |  Link
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I discussed this with HD Fury and they have identified the issue as being caused by the AVI Infoframe. They are working on it.
Oh, so they can reproduce it?? Do they have a JVC to test with? Or does it also occur with other displays? That's very interesting!
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Old 25th September 2017, 19:42   #45994  |  Link
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Oh, so they can reproduce it?? Do they have a JVC to test with? Or does it also occur with other displays? That's very interesting!
I don't have any details yet, I'll let you know when I do, but I don't think they have a JVC.
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Old 25th September 2017, 22:36   #45995  |  Link
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I'm struggling to have a good idea of what the problem could be. If toggling the "send HDR metadata" switch results in a visible change in "passthrough HDR content to the display" mode, then obviously madVR is able to successfully switch your TV into HDR mode. In "passthrough" mode madVR simply outputs all pixels more or less untouched, so there's not so much that could go wrong on madVR's side.
I figure it out. Nothing to do with madvr. Sorry. I had to change a few settings from my Samsung TV. It has an option for 'Colour space', and it was set to 'auto'. I changed it to 'Native' and voila, colours now look right. Funny enough if I go back to 'auto' they also look good now.
I also had to change the 'hdmi black level' setting -which is an option for 16-235 or 0-255- from full to limited. Or else I would get washed out blacks. Now it looks great. Thanks for your time.
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Old 25th September 2017, 23:30   #45996  |  Link
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I use a 1920*1080 full hd monitor, and mpc-be. Zoom settings in madvr are configured to move subs to the bottom.

I tried with ISR, VSFilter and XySubFilter but subs are not showed in the black bars, but on top of video. How can i solve?

As i can see (using xysubfilter), the subs are on top of video for a portion of time, then go in black bars, then returns on the video area... don't know why...
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Old 26th September 2017, 00:03   #45997  |  Link
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The Nvidia settings look alright to me. One thing to double check, though: For "Content type reported to the display" you have selected "Movies". Have you tried other settings there? This setting *could* have an effect, depending on whether your TV reacts to this or not.

Looking at your TV settings screenshots, the most important setting is probably "HDMI RGB Range", which you currently have set to "AUTO". Have you tried different settings there?

The "HDMI Content Type" settings in your TV also look like they could be related. Does changing that stuff do anything to your black and white levels?
Content type reported to the display does nothing when I change it because HDMI Content Type is disabled on the TV. Therefore, the TV ignores such signals from the PC. I do not really need it since I can force the best HDMI Content Type for movies from the TV instead of waiting for NVIDIA's CP signal. Now, changing the HDMI Content Type to anything but "Graphics" and "Photos" gives an unnatural image. Graphics and Photo modes have a less dynamic image, showing less vibrant and not so rich colours (as if the gamut range is crippled) and although the TV's main menu settings seem unchanged, brightness and gamma seems lower as well. Cinema is a weird mode that is disabled from factory defaults (so it won't activate on its own) and can be forced on, but it seems a bit washed out and dark, brightness and gamma are too low and it forces warm colours, looks similar to the so called "THX Cinema" mode, which is complete crap. Game is a mode I cannot force on but it should be able to activate automatically - I do not know under which circumstances it activates and what it does but I am pretty sure it will not do any good for movies with madVR. Lastly, NVIDIA's CP "Auto" Content type will always sent a "Graphics" signal when madVR is playing and the TV will treat it as such if I have everything turned on. If I force the content type from NVIDIA's CP to "Movies" the TV will treat it as "Off" (no mode) by default unless I have Cinema mode on, which is not a factory setting.

The HDMI RGB Range has 3 settings: Auto, Full, Normal. For some reason the TV means "Full" = 16-235 and "Normal" = 0-255. This is an inconsistency which I never really noticed since I always used "Auto", until recently that I started fiddling with NVIDIA's CP output and madVR's settings. The TV's "Normal" (0-255) will force a 3rd black crushing level when activated which is slightly more unnatural than the black crushing NVIDIA's CP / madVR does when set to their equivalent "0-255" - as if there is a loss in quality. Auto seems to almost always use "Full" (16-235) or Limited for everything else, and this is what it defaults to when receiving signal directly from the blu-ray disc or any signal in general, in all my tests it never switched to its 0-255 levels. This mode does nothing when YCbCr signal is sent.
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Old 26th September 2017, 01:29   #45998  |  Link
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Hi guys. I noticed that in recent madvr versions image upscaling and doubling are now on the same page, most guides i checked was on older versions, so i am wondering which option should i choose.
I have a GTX 1070 and was using dxva2 on most options, very low render time but i read that i was losing some image quality. So which settings are considered the best to use on a good gpu?
Also if i have a good gpu, is there a reason to not use dxva2 on image downscaling? Isn't downscaling only used when the window is not on fullscreen?
Edit: I use a 1080p display.
I also notice how little resources dxva2 uses. I put every possible setting on dxva2 and only chroma upscaling on nnedi 128 neurons gives me 0,3ms render time, gpu is almost at idle.
I already tried some settings but it seems that it doesn't make much difference.
I tried one that uses NGU and other settings enabled that put my 1070 to really work hard but not really sure if I saw any difference.
I tried with 720p and 1080p sources, all with high bitrates.

Last edited by leandronb; 26th September 2017 at 03:15.
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Old 26th September 2017, 03:04   #45999  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
Now, changing the HDMI Content Type to anything but "Graphics" and "Photos" gives an unnatural image.
If you want a neutral image (i.e. no sharpening), set "HDMI Content type" to "Off", and then "Sharpness" to 0.
If you want more 'pop' I think it'd better to sharpen with madVR (because it can be adapted to the content being played using profiles) rather than with the TV's Content/Sharpness settings.

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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
it forces warm colours, looks similar to the so called "THX Cinema" mode, which is complete crap.
Whaaat?
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! )

Quote:
The HDMI RGB Range has 3 settings: Auto, Full, Normal. For some reason the TV means "Full" = 16-235 and "Normal" = 0-255.
No, Full always means PC which is 0-255 and Normal means Video which is 16-235. If it's the other way around there's a bug somewhere. Did you try to update your TV's firmware?

I think I know what's wrong here: as can be seen on the first screenshot of your TV settings, it's on Dynamic mode. That mode uses non-defeatable dynamic contrast which means you can never have any consistency in brightness levels as the TV will always try to artificially boost contrast by crushing blacks and/or clipping whites. So if you want consistent levels you need to use another mode than Dynamic, sorry. If you absolutely want Dynamic then you can forget about any accurate brightness levels setup.
Your best chance is to manually copy all the settings values from Dynamic mode to the Custom one. This should give you a picture closest to it but without the dynamic contrast that messes up the brightness levels.
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Last edited by el Filou; 26th September 2017 at 03:30. Reason: Erroneously said that Normal mode used dynamic contrast too; it doesn't
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Old 26th September 2017, 03:32   #46000  |  Link
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If you want a neutral image (i.e. no sharpening), set "HDMI Content type" to "Off", and then "Sharpness" to 0.
If you want more 'pop' I think it'd better to sharpen with madVR (because it can be adapted to the content being played using profiles) rather than with the TV's Content/Sharpness settings.
I always kept sharpness to 50 (default) because I always assumed that 50 is 0 for Panasonics, in a sense that anything below 50 will make the screen unnaturally smoother, like for example DOOM's (2016) sharpness slider has 0 at 1/4 or some TVs that have for example 30 as 0 and anything below it increases smoothness. Are you sure 0 is recommended for Panasonics? I know there is a general sense that it should always be 0 but that is not the case for all TVs and systems since some have their "0" at a higher number other than 0.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Whaaat?
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! )
Haha sorry but for me it is and pretty much everyone I tested various modes with agree that this one looks the worst. I highly doubt this mode is accurate, everything looks yellowish, worn out, and muddy. Sames goes for THX Cinema Bright Room. Maybe it's the model, but it has always been like this.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
No, Full always means PC which is 0-255 and Normal means Video which is 16-235. If it's the other way around there's a bug somewhere. Did you try to update your TV's firmware?
Yes absolutely the TV's firmware is updated, but the RGB settings are the other way around - I thought it was normal considering another model I configured in the past had "Normal" and "Limited", Normal meaning Full and Limited meaning Limited. I thought that my TV has its own kink like that one.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I think I know what's wrong here: as can be seen on the first screenshot of your TV settings, it's on Dynamic mode. That mode uses non-defeatable dynamic contrast which means you can never have any consistency in brightness levels as the TV will always try to artificially boost contrast by crushing blacks and/or clipping whites. Normal mode uses it too (although a bit less agressively), so if you want consistent levels you need to use another mode than Dynamic or Normal, sorry. If you absolutely want Dynamic or Normal then you can forget about any accurate brightness levels setup.
Your best chance is to manually copy all the settings values from Dynamic mode to the Custom one. This should give you a picture closest to it but without the dynamic contrast that messes up the brightness levels.
I already tried all possible modes, it was the first thing I tried. You are right, Dynamic mode enhances the problem but there is a stark difference between having Limited and Full and crushed Full levels on the TV. If I use a blu-ray system to play a disc there are no such issues, Limited appears as it should. I have issues only with the PC.
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