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Old 14th April 2009, 09:07   #261  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazil2 View Post
I'm still having aspect ratio troubles with the two samples I've posted here.

The first sample (VC-1 in MKV) gives me the correct aspect ratio with the MPC-HC built-in decoder. I always got a wrong aspect ratio when the Microsoft decoder is used and it doesn't matter which splitter is used.
The VC-1 aspect ratio problem will be fixed in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazil2 View Post
Now I got different results with the Beyonce TS sample depending on which combination of splitter + decoder is used. So I've done more tests:

Splitter + Decoder = aspect ratio result

MPC-HC + MPC-HC = wrong
MPC-HC + Arcsoft = wrong
MPC-HC + CoreAVC = OK
MPC-HC + Divx7 = wrong
Hmmmmm, it seems that with e.g. divx7 the correct aspect ratio is only available after playback already started. Will have to look into this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egh View Post
It seems now there's no difference between primary and secondary monitor in terms of CPU consumption, only thing matters is what monitor the video has been initialized in!!! The following scenario is now valid: open an empty window on primary, move to secondary, drop a video into it -- no core maximisation ;P move the window back to primary -- maximisation is present again If I revert the order of monitors in this scenario and do it again, same thing happens.

To sum up, it is possible to use a workaround now, which is to force madVR to reinitialize on a different monitor. That apparently fixes now both refresh issue and CPU consumption. Only thing now is to make it work automatically )
Yeah, madVR does currently not detect when you move the media player window to another monitor. Will need to add that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
Nope,it just flashes on the screen for a second and is gone.
Manually running the command from a admin command prompt works fine
Could you please try starting the batch from a command prompt, so that you can see (and report) the error message?

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
I did some more tests.
High CPU consumption is caused by the OSD stats(ctrl-J)
That makes sense. It's not 100% for me, but with OSD active I'm doing some things differently to be able to output reliable statistics. This different way of doing things costs a lot more CPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
With everything disabled i get +/- 50ms
Well, you could still switch scaling to "Bilinear", that is done by the graphics card "for free". Doing that might push you under 40ms. But of course then you have lost many advantages of madVR. So I'd say with your graphics card using madVR does not really make that much sense, unless you want to use madVR for gamut&gamma correction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgur View Post
When pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL (going into the screen where you can lock your computer or start task manager) and coming back to the desktop, the player crashes.
Thanks, will look at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgur View Post
The other issue is minor, when MadVR is first launched, no setting are set in the DS property page. Maybe the default scaling algorithm should be set.
Works for me!

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Originally Posted by vucloutr View Post
Well for the 720p files I checked already "max gpu rendering time" -> "resample textures" (which was "update textures" before?)
has gone up to ~4ms from ~2ms before but "average gpu rendering time" is practically as good as with madVR 0.3.
With v0.3 there were 2 separate lines "update textures" and "resample textures". Now with v0.4 "update textures" is gone, because I'm not doing that myself, anymore. Instead I leave that to Direct3D. Probably "resample textures" takes more time because of that now. The "average gpu rendering time" is unchanged for me, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesgrey3 View Post
There is no problem with madVR nor with cr3dlut. leeperry was just using a custom output gamma curve different from the input gamma curve.
But why does he get different results from t3dlut and madVR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
OTOH some BD's seem very hard to stabilize w/ CoreAVC+all my PP, but as soon as I turn CUDA on...hell breaks loose, I get tearing at the third quarter bottom of the screen(and reseeking does not help).

do any of the stats look alarming? it plays fine in HR(RGB32).
Stats look beautiful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malow View Post
an 9800GT Pci-E 2.0 @ 16x is not capable of output 60fps video at 1920x1200 screen?

wen using BOB on interlaced material, the playback is jerky. but if not viewing in fullscreen (resizing the window to 75% of display) the playback is smooth.

this happens with madVR and haali renderer... only crappy overlay can play full-hd video at 60fps...
Please post madVR statistics (Ctr+J).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinigami-Sama View Post
was working last time I played it
The MPC Video decoder bug occurs only when the decoder is forced to output YV12.
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Old 14th April 2009, 09:07   #262  |  Link
FoLLgoTT
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Since you mentioned the Germany My Fair Lady DVD, here's that DVD, enlarged to my PC display's native resolution of 1680x1050:



Left side is "SoftCubic50", right size "Lanczos8". The ringing you can see in the right side is not in the source at all. It's added by the Lanczos resampling algorithm. As you can see, I didn't have to search very long to find ringing. After all this is still the movie intro... Here are the full screenshots:
I admit in this example the additional ringing inside the fonts is clearly visible and annoying. Thank you for the example!
But is it really visible inside of text lacking movie scenes? I never saw it.

On the other hand if you look at these shots from the same movie you can see much less aliasing on the inner side of the mirror (very annoying in moving scenes), but no additional ringing.

Lanczos2:


Lanczos10:



And if we analyze the picture a bit closer with the h-sweep pattern and a waveform analyzer:



Lanczos2:


Lanczos10:


It is obvious that the higher frequencies are transported better with Lanczos10 and that this algorithm acts as a better low pass, because beats (aliasing) gets less. The h-sweep looks cleaner and very slightly more detail is visible.
Of course if you look at the sides of the h-sweep (hard edges, square wave) there is additional ringing introduced by the scaling algorithm. But these areas content high spatial frequencies which movies *usually* don't (or as I learned only rarely), because of the necessary low pass filtering.

Anyway, you are right. Because everything is just a big compromise it is just a matter of preference. Less aliasing and more detail (Lanczos8) or less ringing (e.g. Catmull-Rom).

Last edited by FoLLgoTT; 14th April 2009 at 09:21.
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Old 14th April 2009, 09:53   #263  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
I admit in this example the additional ringing inside the fonts is clearly visible and annoying. Thank you for the example!
But is it really visible inside of text lacking movie scenes? I never saw it.


I see two or rather three circles (light, dark, light) around that ear ring with Lanczos8.

(This is still My Fair Lady, the scene directly after the intro.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
Anyway, you are right. Because everything is just a big compromise it is just a matter of preference. Less aliasing and more detail (Lanczos8) or less ringing (e.g. Catmull-Rom).
Have you tried SoftCubic50? Yeah, it's not as sharp as Lanczos, but it's just as aliasing free as Lanczos (I think) and adds no ringing at all.
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Old 14th April 2009, 11:00   #264  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
well, the same 16LUT gives different results in t3dlut() and MVR...both different from ddcc(), and no matter what I do it's too green compared to ddcc()
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
But why does he get different results from t3dlut and madVR?
I will look into this...
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Old 14th April 2009, 11:19   #265  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Hi mashi, yes i tried lowering the scaling filter and was able to get a lower GPU time, now its fully usable!
I Don't have to use point, the next one up works too!

Trade quality for speed options lower 10ms, however the different scalers can make a difference of up to 40ms.

I know my card is not very fast, but it has no problems with Fallout3 @ 1920x1080, with most settings at low
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Old 14th April 2009, 12:06   #266  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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Madshi

The tearing on the secondary monitor of my HD2600XT has been fixed by Version 0.4 (or 0.3...I was too slow for that one).

I have to pause/unpause to get smooth playback without jitter (similar to Haali, but not so smooth for now), but it's good, really good.

Thank you very much!

My stats:

display 95.90361 Hz (3s)
movie 23.976 (says source filter)
frame queue 16/16
movie resolution 1920,1080
target rectangle 0,0,1920,1080
vsync interval 10.43ms
movie frame interval 41.71ms
avrg gpu rendering time 14.08ms
max gpu rendering time 20.59ms
avrg present wait time 4.35ms

Is everything ok with the numbers?

As (nearly) always, I am doing no scaling, watching 1920x1080p 23.976fps at 1920x1080 interlaced at 95.904hz on a CRT monitor/projector.

Your renderer is mad

Mark

Last edited by Mark_A_W; 14th April 2009 at 12:18.
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Old 14th April 2009, 14:31   #267  |  Link
Brazil2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinigami-Sama View Post
I'm getting some weirdness with Dark_Shikari's 1080p Big buck bunny
click
Known bug of the MPC-HC internal decoder:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...14#post1272614
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Old 14th April 2009, 14:57   #268  |  Link
Malow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Please post madVR statistics (Ctr+J).
fullscreen:


windowed:
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Old 14th April 2009, 15:20   #269  |  Link
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
...someone mentioned that the latest HR build stutters badly on 60fps and that some older builds work fine. I tried it, and that's a fact!
you are right. i got a old one and worked nice at 60fps on fullscreen. BUT is giving tearing...
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Old 14th April 2009, 17:30   #270  |  Link
leeperry
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you are right. i got a old one and worked nice at 60fps on fullscreen. BUT is giving tearing...
I've always been convinced that tearing was due to some bad BIOS design/user misconfiguration...mostly the video data is not copied fast enough from the northbridge I think.

anyway, I've tried numerous mobos/graphic cards...never had any tearing on XP or Vista.

a little while ago, a guy posted all his BIOS settings on the Reclock forum....I gave him a few hints and the tearing he had in HR apparently went away

http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=18

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesgrey3 View Post
I will look into this...
that'd be pretty cool to get perfect colorimetry in mVR, hope you can work it out!

Last edited by leeperry; 14th April 2009 at 17:56.
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Old 14th April 2009, 18:25   #271  |  Link
FoLLgoTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I see two or rather three circles (light, dark, light) around that ear ring with Lanczos8.
Yes, I see. For my eyes it is not enough to annoy me that much. The ringing at the fonts are much more obvious. I think I'm more sensitive to aliasing than to ringing.

Quote:
Have you tried SoftCubic50? Yeah, it's not as sharp as Lanczos, but it's just as aliasing free as Lanczos (I think) and adds no ringing at all.
Yes, I tried it and I don't like it. It looks like bicubic scaling with additional low pass filtering. Aliasing is still there. It is only not that visible, because the frequency response is worse than with normal bicubic scaling and aliasing is located at the highest frequencies. The problem here is that the effective bandwidth is lowered and details are also affected by the low pass filtering. The picture looks much softer than with Lanczos or Catmull-Rom.
Btw in terms of bandwidth Catmull-Rom looks like Lanczos3, but with a bit less of ringing and a bit more of aliasing. I still prefer Lanczos8 when watching DVD's. On a big screen any aliasing or lack of detail becomes clearly visible. In my eyes the inherent ringing of most DVD's covers the little additional ringing caused by the scaling algorithm. Just my two cents.
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Old 14th April 2009, 18:29   #272  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
Yes, I see. For my eyes it is not enough to annoy me that much. The ringing at the fonts are much more obvious. I think I'm more sensitive to aliasing than to ringing.
I hope I don't have it wrong this time

don't u agree that spline36 is prefered for down or upscaling?
this thread seems to convey this idea(and so do my eyes in ffdshow) :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...30#post1266030

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohannesL View Post
www.sm64.org/div/Bilinear0.png
www.sm64.org/div/Spline360.png

640x480 to 320x240
Spline36 is sharper, but both look good to me.
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Old 14th April 2009, 18:38   #273  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
Yes, I see. For my eyes it is not enough to annoy me that much. The ringing at the fonts are much more obvious. I think I'm more sensitive to aliasing than to ringing.



Yes, I tried it and I don't like it. It looks like bicubic scaling with additional low pass filtering. Aliasing is still there. It is only not that visible, because the frequency response is worse than with normal bicubic scaling and aliasing is located at the highest frequencies. The problem here is that the effective bandwidth is lowered and details are also affected by the low pass filtering. The picture looks much softer than with Lanczos or Catmull-Rom.
Btw in terms of bandwidth Catmull-Rom looks like Lanczos3, but with a bit less of ringing and a bit more of aliasing. I still prefer Lanczos8 when watching DVD's. On a big screen any aliasing or lack of detail becomes clearly visible. In my eyes the inherent ringing of most DVD's covers the little additional ringing caused by the scaling algorithm. Just my two cents.
Could lanczos be modded/adjusted to reduce ringing?
If lanczos where ringing free would it be the best scaler?
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Old 14th April 2009, 18:44   #274  |  Link
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tutorial please ?

please can anybody post a kind of tutorial to use these video renders ,cause some people like me are newbies ,thx a lot....

eric
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Old 14th April 2009, 18:59   #275  |  Link
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Quote:
Yeah, madVR does currently not detect when you move the media player window to another monitor. Will need to add that..
@Madshi: yeah, and I was soooooooo happy about the fact that madVR can be moved around just like a simple GUI application.

Thing is to achieve somehow a "soft" reinitialisation of the renderer in the event of posting to a different monitor. Even HR has a noticable lag when you move the window, where video disappears for a second or so. Same with VMR9. madVR is the only one amongst usable renderers which doesn't do this and this is a definate bonus.

Please note that there's also a partial case, when half of the video is shown on one monitor, half on another In such cases, haali and VMR9 still output as normal and call for reinitialisation when about 2/3 of the video enters to a different monitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I've always been convinced that tearing was due to some bad BIOS design/user misconfiguration...mostly the video data is not copied fast enough from the northbridge I think.

anyway, I've tried numerous mobos/graphic cards...never had any tearing on XP or Vista.

a little while ago, a guy posted all his BIOS settings on the Reclock forum....I gave him a few hints and the tearing he had in HR apparently went away
Wheeeeeeee! So I'm not the only person in the world who thinks that "tearing" etc is most overrated issue in video ever I had 7600 and 7900, on completely different systems, on old Athlon and much newer E8500, on XP and on XP64, and yet to see any tearing on video whatsoever

Last edited by Egh; 14th April 2009 at 19:04.
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Old 14th April 2009, 19:32   #276  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
The tearing on the secondary monitor of my HD2600XT has been fixed by Version 0.4 (or 0.3...I was too slow for that one).
Great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
display 95.90361 Hz (3s)
movie 23.976 (says source filter)
frame queue 16/16
movie resolution 1920,1080
target rectangle 0,0,1920,1080
vsync interval 10.43ms
movie frame interval 41.71ms
avrg gpu rendering time 14.08ms
max gpu rendering time 20.59ms
avrg present wait time 4.35ms
Good numbers, in 1:1 mode. If you need to scale, things could get worse...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malow View Post
fullscreen:

windowed:
Looks good to me. Your graphics card seems to be plenty fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
Btw in terms of bandwidth Catmull-Rom looks like Lanczos3, but with a bit less of ringing and a bit more of aliasing. I still prefer Lanczos8 when watching DVD's. On a big screen any aliasing or lack of detail becomes clearly visible. In my eyes the inherent ringing of most DVD's covers the little additional ringing caused by the scaling algorithm. Just my two cents.
Well, everybody has his own taste. That's why madVR offers all those algorithms for selection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
Could lanczos be modded/adjusted to reduce ringing?
You may want to search for threads started by me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericd View Post
please can anybody post a kind of tutorial to use these video renders ,cause some people like me are newbies ,thx a lot....
Basically:

(1) Use a good media player, e.g. MPC HC or Zoom Player.
(2) Select whatever renderer you want to use in the media player settings.
(3) Configure the media player and renderer to match your device setup and your personal likings.

Done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egh View Post
yeah, and I was soooooooo happy about the fact that madVR can be moved around just like a simple GUI application.

Thing is to achieve somehow a "soft" reinitialisation of the renderer in the event of posting to a different monitor. Even HR has a noticable lag when you move the window, where video disappears for a second or so. Same with VMR9. madVR is the only one amongst usable renderers which doesn't do this and this is a definate bonus.
Well, this bonus will likely go away, as soon as I implement the proper solution. There will likely be a lag which is as big as when switching madVR between fullscreen and windowed.
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Old 14th April 2009, 19:43   #277  |  Link
FoLLgoTT
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@leeperry
Quote:
don't u agree that spline36 is prefered for down or upscaling?
I never spent much time in downscaling, so I cannot tell.
For upscaling I always found that Spline in ffdshow (is it spline36?) looks very close to Lanczos3. And because it s not parametric for tweaking ringing/alising I always used Lanczos.


@tetsuo55
Quote:
Could lanczos be modded/adjusted to reduce ringing?
I don't know. Although I learned the basics about signal theory/processing during my study period I'm not that much into resampling algorithms that I could tell.
But there is already a thread from madshi with this topic.
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Old 14th April 2009, 20:24   #278  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
I never spent much time in downscaling, so I cannot tell.
For upscaling I always found that Spline in ffdshow (is it spline36?) looks very close to Lanczos3. And because it s not parametric for tweaking ringing/alising I always used Lanczos.
I post-process all my video content in the avisynth filter of ffdshow, so most likely I will always be sending native res to mVR. Yes, I think spline in ffdshow is spline36.
so what settings do you recommend exactly? what do u mean by "tweaking ringing/aliasing"...the number of taps?

Last edited by leeperry; 14th April 2009 at 20:29.
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Old 14th April 2009, 20:25   #279  |  Link
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@madshi:
feature request:
- support for the built-in subtitle engine (like Haali's Renderer) (important !!!)
- if possible:built-in shader support
- if not possible: sharpener scripts (eg. complex sharpen2) after the resizer (or customizable shader support ???)

question: isn't dxva support available at all by design ? (I tried CoreAVC CUDA, and it works, so it's not a big deal for nvidia users)

Thanks
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Old 14th April 2009, 20:56   #280  |  Link
Egh
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, this bonus will likely go away, as soon as I implement the proper solution. There will likely be a lag which is as big as when switching madVR between fullscreen and windowed.
I've checked the fullscreen mode and seems the switching lag is less than the lag caused by initialisation. So it may be tolerable.

Seems though when enabling fullscreen it first shows it as entire screen, and only then applies aspect ratio correction.
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