Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Yesterday, 14:07   #55401  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
So with PC mode, it's actually doing the raw input without internal deband, and thereby exhibiting the natural output ?
But you should not see banding with madVR if dithering is configured correctly, so "raw input" on the TV should not show it either. IMHO it's caused by multiple low-quality conversions inside the TV because some of the image processing pipeline cannot handle RGB. The fact PC mode adds other issues (3:2 judder on 24p) is weird too.
If you want to check if the LG is running a debanding algorithm on its inputs when not in PC mode, you can disable dithering in madVR and then compare PC and standard mode again.
__________________
HTPC: W10 1803, E7400, 1050 Ti, DVB-C, Denon 2310, Panasonic GT60 | Desktop: W10 1809, 4690K, HD 7870, Dell U2713HM | MediaPortal 1/MPC-HC, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:41   #55402  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
The fact PC mode adds other issues (3:2 judder on 24p) is weird too.
Not really weird. Even in standard HDMI mode you need to enable "real cinema" to get proper 24p cadence but that also adds input lag and in pc-mode this option is greyed out (permanently disabled).

Though I've successfully created a 48Hz custom refresh rate (using 50Hz as a base) as a workaround and that way you can get proper cadence for movie content even in pc-mode.

Last edited by j82k; Yesterday at 14:44.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:55   #55403  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Having a play with one of the latest test builds of HDR->SDR now I have a graphics card that can handle it. I think it looks really nice, but unsure if this is because my SDR is calibrated more for blacks and whites (using test patterns and nothing fancy) and going from HDR to an HDR -> SDR comparison is hard to compare as I cannot really calibrate the HDR side, so the SDR looks brighter and punchier for an initial comparison.

Any expert or more experienced person done a more in depth analysis with an LED TV and have any thoughts ?
I have set-up an LED TV like this:

2.40 (madVR) -> 2.20 (display)

Because the image is actually getting brighter at the display, I increased the real display peak nits / lower limit in madVR to 225 nits to prevent the image from appearing washed out.

Set like above, the difference in brightness between HDR and SDR is actually reasonably close when the dynamic target nits in the test builds is making the decision on the end display brightness as the movie plays. UHD Blu-ray actually looks better than SDR Blu-ray in most cases, with some exceptions where SDR Blu-ray is noticeably brighter.

For a fair comparison, use full-bitrate UHD rips and not any of the UHD torrents out there that suffer from visual loss of quality.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 17:19   #55404  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
So I just measured a 50 point saturation sweep using 20% pattern stimulus on my LG C8 in PC HDMI input mode (4:4:4 chroma) vs standard HDMI input mode.
All picture enhancement settings were disabled. GPU was set to RGB Full 8-bit.



That pretty much confirms the banding I'm seeing when using pc-mode.
I didn't even bother to check other colors.

SO they make the panel, they probably have to do a sweep / precalibration of some sort

My point is maybe that table gets disabled in PC mode to trade for response time or something.

So you're getting a more raw version of what the panel should look like .

This may actually be a better mode to calibrate under, because then correction is not happening twice, once by chip, once by gpu.

How do calibrated luts look on this mode ? still banding ?
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 17:43   #55405  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 79
What I assume could be happening is that the TVs internal lut works at less precision in pc-mode. If it is input lag related then the game preset which has the same input lag as pc-mode should also suffer from increased banding. Gonna check that out later.

I did create a 3dlut calibration in pc-mode once but it didn't turn out good, which isn't surprising. To correct all of these banding errors (they are everywhere in the low end range) would require an insane amount of corrections.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:53   #55406  |  Link
XMonarchY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Many of us have got around that problem by using the CRU utility to create custom resolutions, then using madVR to optimize them. CRU apparently adds the custom settings at the OS level rather than the GPU level which protects them from driver-level changes.
Could you help me out with that? I could never figure out on how to add the same exact custom resolution that madVR adds via CRU...
__________________
8700K @ 5Ghz | ASUS Z370 Hero X | Corsair 16GB @ 3200Mhz | GTX 1080 Ti @ 2025Mhz | Samsung 970 NVMe 250GB | WD Black 2TB | Corsair AX 850W | LG 32GK850G-B @ 165Hz | Xonar DGX | Windows 10 LTSC 1809
XMonarchY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 00:21   #55407  |  Link
jkauff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Akron, OH in the U.S.A.
Posts: 421
Although you can enter any values you want into CRU, it's generally better to create a custom resolution with the default EDID settings in CRU, then use madVR to create the optimizations.
jkauff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.