Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
7th December 2004, 22:24 | #201 | Link | |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,584
|
Re: Re: Nero (Ateme) H.264 in Avisynth duration not found
Quote:
Actually, Ateme was kind enough to let me participate in the Beta test, so I have version beta-4a. With this, I can kind of get Avisynth to work without seek. However, normal DirectShow playback, which the Nero versions of the filters handle well, is not working well in Ateme's versions, with frozen video, failed seeks, player will not open etc. (on the Nero encoded content)
__________________
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion. Last edited by karl_lillevold; 7th December 2004 at 22:27. |
|
7th December 2004, 22:27 | #202 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Riga, Latvia
Posts: 186
|
Hi, guys !
>>Sharktooth: Finally recode works. You are lucky. Still no chance for me. But I'll try your method step by step when I have spare time, may be it will help... >>Soulhunter: If I add "ConvertToRGB32" to the script, recode simply disappears !?! My current installation (show mpeg4 enc) disappears EVERY time I tried to use avs source, regardless of what is inside And >>Noise can be safely filtered out and then added during playback. >>Film grain cant... Hm ? Is that bolobolo, who showed here an example of analysing film grain before encoding and adding it after ? And said that it is one of the tools they gonna to implement in the future... Or I'm wrong ? (It was in that beta test chain on this forum) |
7th December 2004, 22:41 | #203 | Link | ||
Bored...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Unknown
Posts: 2,812
|
Quote:
Maybe moving all plugins in a different folder works... Quote:
But you need ffdshow to do this !!! Bye Last edited by Soulhunter; 7th December 2004 at 22:45. |
||
7th December 2004, 23:00 | #204 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Paris
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
There is indeed a loss in grain for both encodes (Xvid and ND) but it appears to me that it's closely related to the B-frames sequence : - ND B-frames are a little bit more blurry than XviD's but less noisy - ND P-frames are a little bit more precise than Xvid's and less noisy - The P-B sequences are not the same so the alternance of noisy/blurry frames is not the same As a result, a part of the grain you think Xvid preserves is noise added (mostly in B-frames) and the overall impression is closely related to the P-B frame sequence. As a matter of taste, in this very shot I prefer our way of handling the grain (it looks more "smooth" or less "rusty" to my eyes). |
|
7th December 2004, 23:15 | #205 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,770
|
Quote:
__________________
Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora | Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free |
|
7th December 2004, 23:17 | #206 | Link | |
Bored...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Unknown
Posts: 2,812
|
Quote:
I think a codec should be able to reproduce the source as exact as possible !?! For me this means, if the source looks "rusty" the encode should look rusty as well... If you prefer a clean "not rusty" look, you can use one of the numerous denoisers out there !!! Bye Last edited by Soulhunter; 7th December 2004 at 23:31. |
|
8th December 2004, 01:16 | #209 | Link | ||
TeacH Me!! I'm so n00b!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 316
|
Quote:
@soulhunter Premised that quality is subjective (and personally I don't like source-noise), I think you are right with this: Quote:
|
||
8th December 2004, 01:48 | #210 | Link | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Paris
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
Quote:
The source noise is by far not as rusty as the Xvid result especially in B-frames : the added noise in B-frames compensates too much the compression loss. So in my opinion, there is also a compression loss in ND. This one is smaller than with Xvid (since we have a higher coding efficiency) but is not compensated by an artificial encoder noise like in Xvid. For those who want to make their own mind, the clips are in ftp://mood.ateme.com/Samples.zip |
||
8th December 2004, 04:38 | #211 | Link |
Mr. Sandman
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Haddonfield, IL
Posts: 11,768
|
I prefer the xvid encode. It's sharper and noise/grain is more like the source. AVC encode b-frames are too much "denoised/smoothed".
BTW i spotted some "imperceptible blocks" in the background in both the encodes.
__________________
MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!! |
8th December 2004, 13:06 | #212 | Link | |
TeacH Me!! I'm so n00b!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 316
|
Quote:
Personally, for my sources (almost only DV) I prefer avc "denoised picture", becouse details are preserved, and it's hard to me to notice lousy bloks |
|
8th December 2004, 13:54 | #213 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 486
|
Quote:
|
|
8th December 2004, 14:13 | #214 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 863
|
Well, the smoothing away of the fine textures is an unfortunate side-effect of the loop-filter, similarly to the post-filter of mpeg4 asp, and this is the reason most of us don't use post-filtering at playback. The problem is, disabling the loop-filter won't solve the issue, but it creates other, because IMO the blocking effect of h.264 is much more annoying than in the case of mpeg4 asp. You can try to decrease the loop-filter strength, perhaps you can find a more optimal setting, where the smoothness is not so obvious, and the blockyness is still tolerable.
|
8th December 2004, 14:18 | #215 | Link |
Bored...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Unknown
Posts: 2,812
|
@ temporance
True, much ppl dislike WMV/RV9 for its "smooths out too much fine details" behavior... Maybe lowering the high frequency cut-off in exchange for some ringing could prevent this !?! Bye Last edited by Soulhunter; 8th December 2004 at 14:23. |
8th December 2004, 14:36 | #216 | Link | ||||
TeacH Me!! I'm so n00b!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 316
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
However these are only my own opinions, you have yours! my shots (postprocessing disabled): [EDIT]updated Last edited by nicco; 9th December 2004 at 13:08. |
||||
8th December 2004, 15:40 | #217 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 486
|
@ babayaga
I downloaded your samples, wow that's a high bitrate you use! I prefer the xvid version: the film grain / noise is more alive. The AVC encode has a slight 'dirty window' effect - there seems to be some artificial temporal correlation or "stickiness" of the noise (and the image appears very slightly softer). @ Tommy I don't have a problem with ASP deblocking. It doesn't hit texture in flattish areas of the image in the same way that AVC does. Perhaps it's partly helped by the larger block size in ASP. Also ASP deblocking is completely in the hands of the person and the codec doing the decoding - in-loop filtering is decided at encode time. I have more experimentation to do. Trying AVC with no and minimum deblocking next.... |
8th December 2004, 15:44 | #218 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 486
|
Quote:
|
|
8th December 2004, 16:54 | #219 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 121
|
Quote:
on the bottom-right corner of the very last picture? (is it what is refered to as "film grain generation" ? hehe ) More seriously: did you check all the pics are P-frames, e.g.? (or b-frames, for that matter) -Skal |
|
8th December 2004, 19:02 | #220 | Link | |||
TeacH Me!! I'm so n00b!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 316
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|