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Old 19th July 2014, 15:44   #26941  |  Link
Luca T
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I'm sorry if the question can be stupid but:

If MadVR is only in 32bit version should I use the 32bit version of MPC-HC?
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Old 19th July 2014, 16:38   #26942  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Luca T View Post
I'm sorry if the question can be stupid but:

If MadVR is only in 32bit version should I use the 32bit version of MPC-HC?
The answer to that question is yes: you should use 32-bit mpc-hc. MadVR 32-bit does not work with MPC-HC 64-bit.
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 19th July 2014 at 16:45.
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Old 19th July 2014, 17:35   #26943  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
I didn't view your second file, but theoretically if you want your 4:2:0 videos to be converted to 4:4:4 videos you could go into LAV video decoder, and uncheck all the output formats except for the 4:4:4 ones. It will not necessary lead to a better picture (it might under some circumstances), and it will use LAV to do conversion (which some people here don't like). Regardless you could test with it, and see if you notice any change in quality (good or bad). While you're in LAV video decoder proprieties you could also change RGB output levels to Untouched which would eliminate LAV as a conversion factor for that if nothing else.
chroma upscaling from Lav filter or chroma upsacling from madVR with a free choice for the scaler not that hard of a question.
there is simply no benefited from sending a YCbCr 4:2:0 source as RGB from Lavfilter.

of couse you can try things like this but in general it shouldn't be used the default setting from Lavfilter are choice like this for a good reason. the normal user should never change them if they don't know what they exactly do.
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Old 19th July 2014, 17:45   #26944  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
So, what are you advocating? That he/she go into LAV video decoder and uncheck all the RGB options, so that LAV doesn't convert anything to RGB?
No. LAV will always try to avoid any conversion. It will do conversion if render requires that. madVR does not require that conversion for most formats. So, he does not have to change anything, just leave the default settings.

BTW, I advocate that people should not complicate things because making something complicated most of the time does not lead to better quality. And a lot of online tutorials are too much complicated without any solid reason.

When it comes to madVR+LAV Filters combo, rule is that default settings are very good. If you want better, just use better scaling algorithm in madVR (requires high end graphic card). Also test if you can actually see improvement over default settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
I didn't view your second file, but theoretically if you want your 4:2:0 videos to be converted to 4:4:4 videos you could go into LAV video decoder, and uncheck all the output formats except for the 4:4:4 ones. It will not necessary lead to a better picture (it might under some circumstances), and it will use LAV to do conversion (which some people here don't like). Regardless you could test with it, and see if you notice any change in quality (good or bad). While you're in LAV video decoder proprieties you could also change RGB output levels to Untouched which would eliminate LAV as a conversion factor for that if nothing else.

If you're concerned that your colors look washed out in your videos you can experiment with adding the 16-235 to 0-255 [SD][HD] to active shaders in MPC under options -> Playback -> Shaders. Some people don't like it feeling that they loose some of their descreet greys while others feel it adds vibrancy.
Almost all aplicatons assume that RGB is full range, 0-255, so if he uses LAV for colorspace conversion output should be set to PC levels (0-255) and video will not look "washed".

While in LAV properties dialog he must uncheck all other output formats and leave RGB checked if he want LAV decoder to do conversion. Else, LAV will pass unchaged stream, as I already mentioned.

Almost everyone here loves LAV Filters but almost everyone recommends madVR for chroma (and luma) up/downscaling because it has better choice of scaling algorithms and better dithering.

Last edited by detmek; 19th July 2014 at 17:53.
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Old 20th July 2014, 08:40   #26945  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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Mathias: Sigmoidization was definitely pointing you in the wrong direction. It's dead. (Apologies.)
On the other hand, I'm pretty excited about this: http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse...113483#p113483
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Old 20th July 2014, 12:34   #26946  |  Link
nekromantik
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Hi
Not been on here a while and updated MadVR and noticed a lot of new options! ha
Whats the recommended settings for balance of watching SD and 720p content on a 1080 TV?
Thanks
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Old 20th July 2014, 12:50   #26947  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by NicolasRobidoux View Post
Mathias: Sigmoidization was definitely pointing you in the wrong direction. It's dead. (Apologies.)
On the other hand, I'm pretty excited about this: http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse...113483#p113483
just WOW
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Old 20th July 2014, 15:35   #26948  |  Link
fairchild
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Originally Posted by nekromantik View Post
Hi
Not been on here a while and updated MadVR and noticed a lot of new options! ha
Whats the recommended settings for balance of watching SD and 720p content on a 1080 TV?
Thanks
The defaults work quite well. I tweaked mine as such and am currently using the following. (anything I didn't mention is at defaults) This setup is for as little modification to the image as possible through extra post processing:


Quote:
MadVR settings

important shortcuts: CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+I (video ranges toggle)
CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+T (deinterlacing toggle)
CTRL+ALT+D (dithering toggle)
SHIFT+D (debanding toggle) (custom settings low/medium for str/fade str)

calibration: this display is already calibrated (BT.709 + pure power curve 2.20)

disable desktop composition
enable delay playback start until render queue is full
enable delay playback start after seeking, too

disable ALL trade quality for performance options
using ordered dithering, disable 2 options (colored and dynamic)
**disable dithering (only when checking/calibrating brightness setting)**

display modes: 1080p60,1080p50,1080p24,1080p23

chroma upscaling: Bicubic75
image doubling: double NNEDI3 - 16 neurons (2x) ~~doubling active on 960x540 or less~~
quadruple NNEDI3 - 16 neurons (3x) ~~quadrupling active on 640x360 or less~~
image upscaling: Bicubic75
image downscaling: Catmull-Rom (LL)
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Old 20th July 2014, 15:45   #26949  |  Link
michkrol
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Originally Posted by nekromantik View Post
Hi
Not been on here a while and updated MadVR and noticed a lot of new options! ha
Whats the recommended settings for balance of watching SD and 720p content on a 1080 TV?
Thanks
Everyone will give you a slightly different recommendation, but here goes mine - create 2 profiles:
SD (srcHeight<=576) - luma image doubling with as many neurons as possible, Jinc3 for image upscaling
HD (eveyrhing else/default profile) - Jinc3 for image upscaling, image doubling off
You could probably just set image doubling to "if scaling factor 2.0x or higher", but I myself have some 576p videos I want doubled with NNEDI and downscaled to 1080p, hence I use profiles.

Some folks here (say that they) can see a difference between using image doubling and simple Jinc3 scaling when going 720p -> 1080p, so you need to check it yourself

It's also kind of hard to recommend anything without knowing what your GPU can handle, but you can't go wrong with Jinc3 for HD and image doubling for SD (if your GPU can handle it).

Contrary to fairchild's recommendation I would leave "trade quality for performance options" at defaults or perhaps go there after configuring other settings.
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Old 20th July 2014, 16:09   #26950  |  Link
nekromantik
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Thanks
I lost defaults so will have to reset.
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Old 20th July 2014, 17:51   #26951  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Originally Posted by NicolasRobidoux View Post
Mathias: Sigmoidization was definitely pointing you in the wrong direction. It's dead. (Apologies.)
On the other hand, I'm pretty excited about this: http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse...113483#p113483
Interesting! So, in words:

1) Convert input (a) from sRGB to linear RGB

2a) Copy (a) to (b)
2b) Apply a gamma of 3 to (b)
2c) Resize (b) using whatever method
2d) Apply a gamma of 1/3 to (b)

3a) Copy (a) to (c)
3b) Negate each channel of (c)
3b) Apply a gamma of 3 to (c)
3c) Resize (c) using whatever method
3d) Apply a gamma of 1/3 to (c)
3e) Negate each channel of (c)

4a) Set output (d) to the mean of each channel of (b) and (c)
4b) Convert output (d) from linear RGB to sRGB

This then produces a result with similarly reduced ringing as if you had converted to LAB before resizing?

Edit: I guess if this thread is solely for madVR support, this might need its own topic.
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Old 21st July 2014, 13:41   #26952  |  Link
Stereodude
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Ok, in that case it should also be 24fps for decimated 720p60 content. Is there already an entry in the bug tracker for this? If not, could you please make one? Thx.
Okay, I made one. Sorry for the delay. #228

Also, I know you're officially not taking feature requests, but have you given any thought to adding a masking step in the processing pipeline. Something where a custom number of pixels on each edge could be masked/replaced with black? Something like the equivalent of crop + addborders in Avisynth. This would allow people with fixed pixel displays who are running with 1:1 pixel mapping to hide unwanted artifacts from the edges of content. Thanks!

Last edited by Stereodude; 21st July 2014 at 13:47.
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Old 21st July 2014, 19:27   #26953  |  Link
billqs
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I know that you can uncheck various parts of MadVR if you don't have enough horsepower in your CPU/GPU, but I'm building a 4k box and want to know if my i7 3820 CPU and GTX 650Ti GPU would be strong enough to scale to 4k using Jinc3 + AR filter (My Sony projector upscales well, but has too much ringing.) If this is not quite powerful enough to do this, I am open to suggestions a better GPU.

Thanks!
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Old 21st July 2014, 21:49   #26954  |  Link
dansrfe
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Originally Posted by billqs View Post
I know that you can uncheck various parts of MadVR if you don't have enough horsepower in your CPU/GPU, but I'm building a 4k box and want to know if my i7 3820 CPU and GTX 650Ti GPU would be strong enough to scale to 4k using Jinc3 + AR filter (My Sony projector upscales well, but has too much ringing.) If this is not quite powerful enough to do this, I am open to suggestions a better GPU.

Thanks!
Depends on what source you're scaling from. If you're scaling from full 1080p then you'll need a 8xx or Titan I believe for Jinc 3 AR.
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Old 21st July 2014, 22:11   #26955  |  Link
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My Titan can do 1080p30 -> 4K with NNEDI3 32 neuron luma doubling and Jinc3+AR for both chroma and image scaling with smooth motion on, but it is pretty busy at that point. What this says about a 650Ti doing Jinc3, I am not sure.

If you are willing to use something like bicubic75+AR for chroma and Jinc3+AR for image the 650Ti might do it but it would be close at best.
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Old 21st July 2014, 22:32   #26956  |  Link
huhn
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a r9 280 + should be able to do it my r9 270 gets 44 ms with image only and 50ms+ with chroma and image at jinc 3 ar on a 1080p23 source. spline 3 ar is a joke for it it's about 12 ms i'm not even sure if it is in the highest powerstate.

BTW you can easily test this bypressing numblock 9 and force a fake UHD output on mpc HC/BE.
for some reasons image doubling is faster with 16 neurons...
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Old 22nd July 2014, 02:38   #26957  |  Link
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I did a madVR performance test on my Titan with Jinc3+AR/Jinc3+AR, smooth motion on, debanding low/low, ordered dithering. 4 frame rendering buffer, 1 present queue, windowed mode (new path), Windows 8.1. SLI Off.

1080p24 -> 3840x2160@60Hz, 17.5ms

While playing Nvidia Inspector says:
GPU 41-52%
MCU 10-14%
GPU CLK 549-679 MHz
RAM 1429MB

Assuming performance is directly proportional to shaders*MHz a stock GTX650Ti has 39% of the GPU performance of a Titan @ 679 MHz. It also has 28% of the memory bandwidth of my Titan, well above the 14% I used.

This works out to at worst a 25.9ms rendering time on a GTX650Ti at 90% GPU usage; fine for 30fps or lower but not 60fps (16.6ms).

If I use Bicubic75+AR for chroma scaling and Jinc3 for image it changes to a 15.6 ms rendering time with at most 44% GPU usage. Scaling to a 19.5ms rendering time on a GTX650Ti @ 928MHz and 90% usage. Still not enough for 60 fps but plenty of headroom for 30 fps (33.3ms).

These are worst case estimates though, I wouldn't be surprised if the GTX650Ti had the GPU power for Jinc3 Image and Bicubic75 chroma for 1080p60. Sadly the memory bandwidth is probably insufficient.

Memory usage is a major issue though; if I turn the buffers down to 4 rending and 1 present I still hit 1429MB of GPU memory used and 4/1 is the minimum.

Edit: I was able to get memory usage down to 958MB with Jinc3+AR chroma and Jinc3+AR image by turning on most of the trade quality for performance options (10 bit instead of 16 bit) and turning off debanding and smooth motion.

Last edited by Asmodian; 22nd July 2014 at 02:58.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 04:58   #26958  |  Link
billqs
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Thanks, guys! You've given me some great information! I'm not looking to game in 4k at this point, just watch movies, so I could probably handle staying at 30fps for the time being. I'm much more familiar with using ATI/AMD cards for my HTPCs but I had read where the Kepler cards had beta drivers allowing them to expose 4k all the way up to 60hz over the same HDMI 1.4 card. My projector doesn't take display port, is there a good 4k option over HDMI for the R9 series from AMD?
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Old 22nd July 2014, 06:59   #26959  |  Link
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Wow, I had no idea. I happened to be running the newest Nvidia betas and just unplugged my DP 1.2 cable and plugged in an HDMI. It switched to 3840x2160@30 Hz and I have the options for 29, 25, 24, and 23 Hz in Windows.

These are great options for madVR but other then that we are going off topic (as happens all too often here).
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Old 22nd July 2014, 18:48   #26960  |  Link
nikola
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Wow, I had no idea. I happened to be running the newest Nvidia betas and just unplugged my DP 1.2 cable and plugged in an HDMI. It switched to 3840x2160@30 Hz and I have the options for 29, 25, 24, and 23 Hz in Windows.

These are great options for madVR but other then that we are going off topic (as happens all too often here).
On the topic of getting the best visual quality:

Be aware that nVidia is actually using chroma downsampling (4:2:2 if I recall correctly) to squeeze 4K into the bandwidth constraints of HDMI 1.4. Which defeats the whole purpose of madVR's RGB processing.
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