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Old 16th November 2016, 01:02   #40121  |  Link
Shiandow
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I think the upscaled Mononoke image would be even closer to ground truth if a sharper downscaler would have been used.
Well, maybe but it's kind of pointless to optimize the downscaling since that's the part we don't have usually any control over (otherwise, why would we even downscale?). Catmull-Rom in gamma light is pretty realistic. You could argue that a box filter in linear light is closer to how cameras work, but I'd be surprised if it resulted in a huge difference in the relative quality of the scaling algorithms.
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Old 16th November 2016, 01:07   #40122  |  Link
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I was wondering if a post process sharpener specifically designed based upon the differences from an NG1 upscaled image and ground truth could be used to bring it as close as possible to ground truth, it does seem to be quite close as it is though.
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Old 16th November 2016, 01:40   #40123  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I simply can't understand this "logic". I'm considering updating my GTX 960 to a 1060 for exactly this purpose.. An extra $100 or whatever to run this new scaler comfortably for most content at low power levels? You'd be mad not to.
Or you know, you could just keep using NNEDI3 or whatever, your choice. Just don't QQ about not wanting to spend money because you can't see the benefit when it's clearly obvious.
There's been enough discussion about more demanding algorithms over the years. Do you really think the upgrade train stops here?

Because Warner306 is having a cry, I vote for:

Next Gen Mad Hardware Upgrade Scaler.

Seriously impressive result there Madshi. Does SuperRes work any good with it, probably not really needed though.

Considering how well this is doing with lines thickness I might actually no longer need to use Avisynth upscaling to achieve similar quality for low res content.
Only a few days to go..
Sounds terrible. NG...anything, really, works for me. Why not NG1 or NG373, NG69?

I not crying. I'm just hopeful I don't have to open up my computer and drop some money into it. The most recent card cost me $100, used. It is good enough for my purposes, about equivalent to a PS4.

I like what I have been able to do with old hardware. I am also a madVR nut, now, and that wasn't the case when I started with HTPCs. I do want to try NG1 and get some enjoyment from it. I still publish a blog on this software that is updated every week. You can't publish 2,000 words on madVR and not care about its features.

But I really don't watch that much content these days? A movie every week or two and a couple of TV shows. That isn't worth a fortune or a GTX 1080.

Last edited by Warner306; 16th November 2016 at 01:45.
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Old 16th November 2016, 02:44   #40124  |  Link
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You can't search for three letter words (NG1) in the forum.
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Old 16th November 2016, 03:01   #40125  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by Shiandow View Post
Well, maybe but it's kind of pointless to optimize the downscaling since that's the part we don't have usually any control over (otherwise, why would we even downscale?). Catmull-Rom in gamma light is pretty realistic. You could argue that a box filter in linear light is closer to how cameras work, but I'd be surprised if it resulted in a huge difference in the relative quality of the scaling algorithms.
I agree that it's realistic. My intention was to point out that it isn't necessarily the upscaler's fault if the image is a bit softer than ground truth.
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Old 16th November 2016, 03:31   #40126  |  Link
jerryleungwh
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This may be a very dumb question but I'm new to this so please bear with me. May I ask how can you guys capture an exact same frame from a video with different scaling algorithms? I want to try doing the comparisons by myself but I can don't know how to
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Old 16th November 2016, 03:47   #40127  |  Link
Warner306
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This may be a very dumb question but I'm new to this so please bear with me. May I ask how can you guys capture an exact same frame from a video with different scaling algorithms? I want to try doing the comparisons by myself but I can don't know how to
Pause the video and switch algorithms.

It is easier if you use still frame images from the Internet. Do a Google search for 1280 x 720 images, or something like that. Seeing differences in live video is more difficult compared to a good still frame image. Drag the image into the MPC-HC window and press pause. Run your tests.

Last edited by Warner306; 16th November 2016 at 19:16.
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Old 16th November 2016, 04:12   #40128  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Pause the video and switch algorithms.


And how to take screenshots that have upscaling refinements applied? If take mpc-be the refinements don t appear on the image


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Old 16th November 2016, 04:44   #40129  |  Link
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Hi, I've been trying for over an hour to fix a subtitle display problem that I'm pretty sure has to do with madVR rather than MPC-HC.

I have an "ultrawide" 21:9 aspect ratio monitor, and I use madVR's settings under Processing -> Zoom Control to zoom/crop past the hardcoded top & bottom "black bars" of most movies.

The problem is that subtitles are still rendered as if those black bars are visible.

The nature of the problem becomes clear if I just show you screenshots:

This is what I see in fullscreen. (Notice the few pixels of black bar at the top and bottom - that's because 21:9 monitors aren't precisely the same aspect ratio as movies, but pretty darn close.)

This is what I see in windowed mode.

I thought that the fix would be easy: check the "move subtitles" option in madVR and choose one of the two options in the corresponding dropdown menu. However, neither of them seemed to have any effect at all.

So I next tried all conceivable combinations of enabling/disabling the following options within madVR:

Move subtitles (to bottom of screen)
Move subtitles (to bottom of video)
Zoom small black bars away
Crop black bars

No combination of those options seemed to have any effect on the subtitles at all, even when I closed MPC-HC and played the video all over again.

Am I right that this is a problem with madVR rather than MPC-HC? Because none of the subtitle options in MPC-HC seem to have any effect whatsoever (although, neither did any of madVR's subtitle settings). If that's the case, then is there any way I can fix it?

Let me know if there's any more information that would help diagnose this, or if there's anything you'd like me to test out for you in terms of a possible solution.

Thanks!

Last edited by HelmedHorror; 16th November 2016 at 04:50.
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Old 16th November 2016, 04:58   #40130  |  Link
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Subtitle formats that specify position (e.g. ass) cannot be moved by madVR. What format are your subtitles?

If they are ass you can convert them to srt but it is a bit of work, especially if you aren't used to demuxing and remuxing already.
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Old 16th November 2016, 05:03   #40131  |  Link
HelmedHorror
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Subtitle formats that specify position (e.g. ass) cannot be moved by madVR. What format are your subtitles?

If they are ass you can convert them to srt but it is a bit of work, especially if you aren't used to demuxing and remuxing already.
Whatever comes with the movie in its BluRay. I think they're all PGS. Certainly the one I've been testing this problem with (The Matrix Reloaded) is PGS.
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Old 16th November 2016, 05:12   #40132  |  Link
Asmodian
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Whatever comes with the movie in its BluRay. I think they're all PGS. Certainly the one I've been testing this problem with (The Matrix Reloaded) is PGS.
PGS does specify position, I believe nothing can move them.

I always OCR my subtitles, Subextractor is a good option, but that is quite a lot of work you probably don't want to do.

Sorry, but it isn't a madVR issue.
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Old 16th November 2016, 05:22   #40133  |  Link
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HelmedHorror
You can try MPC-BE, can move any subtitles - Ctrl+Shift+Arrow.
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Old 16th November 2016, 06:06   #40134  |  Link
HelmedHorror
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PGS does specify position, I believe nothing can move them.

I always OCR my subtitles, Subextractor is a good option, but that is quite a lot of work you probably don't want to do.

Sorry, but it isn't a madVR issue.
I see... Well, that's incredibly discouraging. It never ceases to amaze me the new ways I find in which 21:9 monitors aren't supported in some way or another, whether in video games or other software. Not that madVR is one such example; as you point out, this is a problem with PGS technology.

Is there at least a way I can stop madVR from getting rid of the black bars while in windowed mode? Because that way I could at least un-fullscreen if I really need to see a subtitle for some reason.

When I took those screenshots I was under the impression I had it set to keep the black bars in windowed mode, but I think I simply paused the video before it had a chance to crop the black bars. Because no matter what settings I use in madVR I can't seem to get it to stop removing the black bars in windowed mode.
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Old 16th November 2016, 07:30   #40135  |  Link
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madshi called it NG1, Next Generation 1. You have to pay attention on these things, if you're about to make a comment.
Indeed, I pay attention and that's why I made a comment.

Last edited by HillieSan; 16th November 2016 at 07:32.
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Old 16th November 2016, 08:05   #40136  |  Link
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Indeed, I pay attention and that's why I made a comment.
Madshi called it NG1 and nautilus7 suggested NGS, you then asked why he went with "Next Gen" and quite simply it's because madshi himself called it Next Gen.
Considering NNEDI3 was made in 2009 and this new scaler is likely based upon that to some degree, it is accurate to call it such.

Last edited by ryrynz; 16th November 2016 at 08:59.
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Old 16th November 2016, 09:44   #40137  |  Link
Betroz
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About the name:
Since Madshi is the creator, the algorithms name should have "Mad" in it. Like "MadSG1" or "MadScaler". Only SG1 is too anonymous.

Edit : SG1 is as we know the codename for the "Stargate SG1" TV series
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Last edited by Betroz; 16th November 2016 at 09:48.
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Old 16th November 2016, 13:42   #40138  |  Link
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I think "NGScaler" would work. Keeps the original name, but is searchable. Or "NG1Scaler", though the "1" might be mistaken for a lower-case "L".
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Old 16th November 2016, 13:55   #40139  |  Link
ashlar42
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I still publish a blog on this software that is updated every week. You can't publish 2,000 words on madVR and not care about its features.
Where's your blog?
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Old 16th November 2016, 15:25   #40140  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Considering NNEDI3 was made in 2009 and this new scaler is likely based upon that to some degree, it is accurate to call it such.
You're speculating a lot.
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