Tearing in Jurassic Park rip

JimmyBarnes · 20th December 2011, 07:29

Ripped JP BD to 1080p/x264/AC3. Then played on 2 PCs, with special scrutiny for the first 32 minutes or so:

Media PC
* Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, WinXP SP3
* XFX HD-435X-ZAH2 VP.1 PCI-E 1GB graphics (ATI Radeon 4350 HD)
* Panasonic TX-37LZD800A 94 cm LCD TV
* Zoom Player Home MAX 8
* CoreAVC Pro 3.0.1 H.264/AVC decoder

Work PC
* Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83 GHz, 4 GB RAM, WinXP SP3
* XFX HD-435X-YN PCI-E 1GB graphics (Radeon R4350)
* BenQ G2222HDL
* Zoom Player 2.9
* ffmpeg-mt (ffdshow 6.80 Basic) H.264/AVC decoder

On Media PC, I see distinct tearing in 6 places.
On Work PC, I see no tearing in those same 6 places.

What do I mean by "tearing"? "{Tearing] means that picture displayed on screen consists of two frames (adjacent in time), so there is a visible, transient discontinuity at top (10-20%) of the screen."

These measures failed to remove tearing on Media PC:
* Replaced CoreAVC on PC1 with ffdshow 6.8.0 Basic, or 8.0.7 Basic, then used ffmpeg-mt decoder
* Added more RAM (2x DDR2-800 dual channel)
* Substituted BenQ G2222HDL in place of Panasonic TV

Your comments please. Surely I do not have to upgrade my media PC to a Core2Quad to get rid of the tearing?

Ghitulescu · 20th December 2011, 08:53

And the standalone shows any "tearing"?
That helps you in finding out whether the "tearing" is actually there. It might be that the work PC2 masks the "defect" zones.

hello_hello · 20th December 2011, 09:57

I get a bit of tearing when using my PC and MPC-HC if I use the Bicubic resizer but not if I use the Bilinear resizer. I think the renderer also plays a part but I don't fully understand the causes of tearing. There's more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing
You appear not to be resizing, but maybe experiment with a different renderer and/or media player to see if you can find what's causing it. The fact that you're using a different version of Potplayer on each PC seems to indicate the problem may lie in that direction.
You might want to also try ReClock if you're not already using it. Initially I thought it'd fixed my tearing problem but unfortunately it only made it less frequent (only changing the resizer fixed it) however it can't hurt to try. http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ReClo...ectshow-Filter

JimmyBarnes · 20th December 2011, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

And the standalone shows any "tearing"?
That helps you in finding out whether the "tearing" is actually there. It might be that the work PC2 masks the "defect" zones.

What "standalone" are you referring to?

HOW would the work PC (sorry, not Work PC2 - typo in original post now corrected) "mask" the defect?

Ghitulescu · 20th December 2011, 10:32

It happens many times to me that 1:1 copies of DVDs and recently BDs that look ok eg in VLC have pixelation issues in Mplayer, and vice-versa. None of them show any sign of error when copied to a DVD-R/W or accordingly BD-R/E and played in my Pioneer/s. Since my laptop is quite old I safely consider that the errors come from the codecs used by each of those SW ontop of my older CPU and non-defragmented HDDs. So it's a SW/HW bottleneck, not a stream issue.

JimmyBarnes · 20th December 2011, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

It happens many times to me that 1:1 copies of DVDs and recently BDs that look ok eg in VLC have pixelation issues in Mplayer, and vice-versa. None of them show any sign of error when copied to a DVD-R/W or accordingly BD-R/E and played in my Pioneer/s. Since my laptop is quite old I safely consider that the errors come from the codecs used by each of those SW ontop of my older CPU and non-defragmented HDDs. So it's a SW/HW bottleneck, not a stream issue.

But in my case the 2 PCs are quite similar, have the same graphics card, and I tried the same decoder (ffdshow) on both.

Ghitulescu · 20th December 2011, 11:02

Unless brand-new industry installed PCs (which [must] use the same HW, and I mean it, and installed using the same "blind" installation), no two computers are the same.

Have you switched the graphic cards and see if the defect follows one of them?

And I repeat myself, are you absolutely sure that the stream you made is flawless?

hello_hello · 20th December 2011, 20:59

Tearing isn't the same thing as pixelation.
It probably wouldn't hurt to swap the video cards "just in case". Not that I think it's likely to be the video card. My 8600GT displays full HD without tearing now I've switched resizers (the CPU is an E6750). Once the video card has been eliminated it pretty much comes down to software doesn't it?
Maybe also try disabling any image enhancing features in the video card's Control Panel to see if it makes a difference. I'm an Nvidia guy but if memory serves me correctly ATI have a lot of that stuff enabled by default.

DzigiBau · 20th December 2011, 22:29

So far, I see ReClock as solution for you. Maybe you find a time to try this couple of ideas.

First, install MPC - HC, does not matter what version, maybe newst one. Then play a movie and press CTRL+J to see information. Pick a detail about movies on the top which could be: 23.976 (24Hz), 25.000 (25Hz or 50Hz), 30.000 (60Hz).

You need here to make three different profiles in your ATI Catalyst software for your graphic card for three refresh rate modes on your screen resolution, like 1920x1080 resolution and 24Hz refresh rate. Save profiles, put some Hotkey for switching from monitor to television and be careful to choose refresh rate depends on movies information from MPC-HC. That will probably solve the most of your tearing problems.

namaiki · 21st December 2011, 01:26

Which video renderer are you using? Maybe you can try use overlay.

JimmyBarnes · 21st December 2011, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by namaiki

Which video renderer are you using? Maybe you can try use overlay.

EVR - but I've tried them all without any getting DXVA to work.

namaiki · 21st December 2011, 12:28

Overlay should get rid of tearing. DXVA should work with Overlay on Windows XP as long as there isn't DirectVobSub being used.

JAMESE · 21st December 2011, 12:36

Well
In my favor Tearing isn't the same thing as pixelation.
Thanks for sharing.

dukey · 21st December 2011, 12:40

You need Vista/7 for DXVA 2.0

JimmyBarnes · 21st December 2011, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by namaiki

Overlay should get rid of tearing. DXVA should work with Overlay on Windows XP as long as there isn't DirectVobSub being used.

Can you be more specific re "overlay". Where do I set "overlay"?

JimmyBarnes · 21st December 2011, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukey

You need Vista/7 for DXVA 2.0

EVR says it needs Vista OR .NET 3.5 (which I have on Media PC), does the same apply to DXVA 2.0?

How is DXVA2.0 better than DXVA?

nevcairiel · 21st December 2011, 12:53

DXVA2 decoding only works on Vista/7, even installing EVR on XP will not make it work. For DXVA on XP you should use VMR9 and DXVA1.

namaiki · 21st December 2011, 12:57

You can set Overlay or VMR9 in Zoom Player options on the Playback-> Video tab.

JimmyBarnes · 21st December 2011, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

DXVA2 decoding only works on Vista/7, even installing EVR on XP will not make it work. For DXVA on XP you should use VMR9 and DXVA1.

Tried all the VMR9 video renderers - none of them got DXVA of any type to work according to CoreAVC or my CPU usage.

How does one select between DXVA1 and DXVA2? I've seen no mention of the 2 types. Or is it something inherent in the graphics card itself?

JimmyBarnes · 21st December 2011, 13:04

Is there a particular brand and model of graphics card where DXVA is generally agreed to work without much problem?

Or is DXVA a !@#$ of a thing to get working on any graphics card/system?

20th December 2011, 07:29	#1 \| Link
JimmyBarnes the Interrogator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: DownUnder Posts: 664	Tearing in Jurassic Park rip Ripped JP BD to 1080p/x264/AC3. Then played on 2 PCs, with special scrutiny for the first 32 minutes or so: Media PC * Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, WinXP SP3 * XFX HD-435X-ZAH2 VP.1 PCI-E 1GB graphics (ATI Radeon 4350 HD) * Panasonic TX-37LZD800A 94 cm LCD TV * Zoom Player Home MAX 8 * CoreAVC Pro 3.0.1 H.264/AVC decoder Work PC * Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83 GHz, 4 GB RAM, WinXP SP3 * XFX HD-435X-YN PCI-E 1GB graphics (Radeon R4350) * BenQ G2222HDL * Zoom Player 2.9 * ffmpeg-mt (ffdshow 6.80 Basic) H.264/AVC decoder On Media PC, I see distinct tearing in 6 places. On Work PC, I see no tearing in those same 6 places. What do I mean by "tearing"? "{Tearing] means that picture displayed on screen consists of two frames (adjacent in time), so there is a visible, transient discontinuity at top (10-20%) of the screen." These measures failed to remove tearing on Media PC: * Replaced CoreAVC on PC1 with ffdshow 6.8.0 Basic, or 8.0.7 Basic, then used ffmpeg-mt decoder * Added more RAM (2x DDR2-800 dual channel) * Substituted BenQ G2222HDL in place of Panasonic TV Your comments please. Surely I do not have to upgrade my media PC to a Core2Quad to get rid of the tearing? Last edited by JimmyBarnes; 20th December 2011 at 10:35.

20th December 2011, 08:53	#2 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	And the standalone shows any "tearing"? That helps you in finding out whether the "tearing" is actually there. It might be that the work PC2 masks the "defect" zones. __________________ Born in the USB (not USA)

20th December 2011, 10:32	#5 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	It happens many times to me that 1:1 copies of DVDs and recently BDs that look ok eg in VLC have pixelation issues in Mplayer, and vice-versa. None of them show any sign of error when copied to a DVD-R/W or accordingly BD-R/E and played in my Pioneer/s. Since my laptop is quite old I safely consider that the errors come from the codecs used by each of those SW ontop of my older CPU and non-defragmented HDDs. So it's a SW/HW bottleneck, not a stream issue. __________________ Born in the USB (not USA)

20th December 2011, 11:02	#7 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	Unless brand-new industry installed PCs (which [must] use the same HW, and I mean it, and installed using the same "blind" installation), no two computers are the same. Have you switched the graphic cards and see if the defect follows one of them? And I repeat myself, are you absolutely sure that the stream you made is flawless? __________________ Born in the USB (not USA)

20th December 2011, 20:59	#8 \| Link
hello_hello Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,829	Tearing isn't the same thing as pixelation. It probably wouldn't hurt to swap the video cards "just in case". Not that I think it's likely to be the video card. My 8600GT displays full HD without tearing now I've switched resizers (the CPU is an E6750). Once the video card has been eliminated it pretty much comes down to software doesn't it? Maybe also try disabling any image enhancing features in the video card's Control Panel to see if it makes a difference. I'm an Nvidia guy but if memory serves me correctly ATI have a lot of that stuff enabled by default. Last edited by hello_hello; 20th December 2011 at 21:02.

20th December 2011, 09:57	#3 \| Link
hello_hello Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,829	I get a bit of tearing when using my PC and MPC-HC if I use the Bicubic resizer but not if I use the Bilinear resizer. I think the renderer also plays a part but I don't fully understand the causes of tearing. There's more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing You appear not to be resizing, but maybe experiment with a different renderer and/or media player to see if you can find what's causing it. The fact that you're using a different version of Potplayer on each PC seems to indicate the problem may lie in that direction. You might want to also try ReClock if you're not already using it. Initially I thought it'd fixed my tearing problem but unfortunately it only made it less frequent (only changing the resizer fixed it) however it can't hurt to try. http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ReClo...ectshow-Filter

20th December 2011, 22:29	#9 \| Link
DzigiBau Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 24	So far, I see ReClock as solution for you. Maybe you find a time to try this couple of ideas. First, install MPC - HC, does not matter what version, maybe newst one. Then play a movie and press CTRL+J to see information. Pick a detail about movies on the top which could be: 23.976 (24Hz), 25.000 (25Hz or 50Hz), 30.000 (60Hz). You need here to make three different profiles in your ATI Catalyst software for your graphic card for three refresh rate modes on your screen resolution, like 1920x1080 resolution and 24Hz refresh rate. Save profiles, put some Hotkey for switching from monitor to television and be careful to choose refresh rate depends on movies information from MPC-HC. That will probably solve the most of your tearing problems.

21st December 2011, 01:26	#10 \| Link
namaiki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,073	Which video renderer are you using? Maybe you can try use overlay.

21st December 2011, 12:28	#12 \| Link
namaiki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,073	Overlay should get rid of tearing. DXVA should work with Overlay on Windows XP as long as there isn't DirectVobSub being used.

21st December 2011, 12:36	#13 \| Link
JAMESE Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 7	Well In my favor Tearing isn't the same thing as pixelation. Thanks for sharing.

21st December 2011, 12:40	#14 \| Link
dukey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 560	You need Vista/7 for DXVA 2.0

21st December 2011, 12:53	#17 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	DXVA2 decoding only works on Vista/7, even installing EVR on XP will not make it work. For DXVA on XP you should use VMR9 and DXVA1. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

21st December 2011, 12:57	#18 \| Link
namaiki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,073	You can set Overlay or VMR9 in Zoom Player options on the Playback-> Video tab.

21st December 2011, 13:04	#20 \| Link
JimmyBarnes the Interrogator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: DownUnder Posts: 664	Is there a particular brand and model of graphics card where DXVA is generally agreed to work without much problem? Or is DXVA a !@#$ of a thing to get working on any graphics card/system?