madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[HDR]

- TV set to Black Level = High
- Nvidia - RGB, 8bcc and Full
- MadVR set to (0-255)

This is what use on my LG oled and it's correct for desktop and videos.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by HDR

- TV set to Black Level = High
- Nvidia - RGB, 8bcc and Full
- MadVR set to (0-255)

This is what use on my LG oled and it's correct for desktop and videos.

Like I said, I then get raised blacks / lighter image.

[kitame]

increasing the minimum of monitor range from 0-255 to 16-255 would place a 16-level bias on the blacks towards whites.
leave it at 0-255 if you want deeper blacks.

monitor setting's "black level" on the other hand is a gamma curve adjustment, "High" puts it on a higher curve (brighter) while "Low" puts it on a lower curve (darker).
i suggest disabling it entirely if possible, as you want the gamma curve to be as close to the original as possible.

-----------

is there any performance benefit for MadVR when used with Nvidia's new RTX* cards?
*Turing architecture with RayTracing and Tensor cores.
if we're looking at this purely from raw processing power (GFLOPs) standpoint, Tensor cores on RTX cards is 8times more than their regular CUDA cores.

[mytbyte]

Originally Posted by huhn

but madVR follows the bt 2390 standard.

it will change colors that can'T be shown by your display because it can't get bright enough.

if you set the target peak nit to the same of the source file or higher it will not change colors.

and if your LG plays around dark parts of the image it is clearly not different from vivid mode. because it is clearly capable to display the dark details at the creator intended brightness so there is no need to change anything.

I'm not technical enough to understand the BT.2390 paper in full, and can't quite grasp how the rolloff algorithm works (for 200 cd/m2 max brightness on a comp monitor, the 70% I measured as being way too high, 80-100 are flat i.e clipped in the graph (probably depends on MaxL of content and mastering monitor etc). But, everything under 50% (95 nits) is more-less following the PQ curve at all times so there should be no major black crush from MadVR's tone map curve (note: I'm doing HDR->SDR)

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Sorry if I'm being slow to understand this, but I need some clarification. For me to avoid Black Crush / dark image I must use the following settings :

- TV set to Black Level = Low
- Use Nvidia color settings, RGB, 8bcc and Full
- MadVr set to TV levels (16-255)

Is this correct then? My LG C8 TV have only two options for Black Level when in HDMI mode, High and Low. I have tried to set the TV to High and MadVr to 0-255, but that gives me raised blacks / lighter image instead. I'm so confused since I did not have this problem with my old Panasonic VT30 plasma, or at least I didn't notice it. Btw this is with SDR content.

just open this image: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
set your GPU to full range RGB and check which setting makes all or at least most levels visible.

16-255 is unlikely to be correct.

[HDR]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Like I said, I then get raised blacks / lighter image.

We have the exact same setup, so I don't see how that's possible.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by kitame

is there any performance benefit for MadVR when used with Nvidia's new RTX* cards?

Madshi may be able to take advantage of the tensor cores but that'll likely be quite some time away, madshi will mention something I'm sure once he's taken a good look at what can be done with them.
Apart from that the 2080Ti is about 40% faster for madVR related tasks over the 1080Ti.

[kitame]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Madshi may be able to take advantage of the tensor cores but that'll likely be quite some time away, madshi will mention something I'm sure once he's taken a good look at what can be done with them.
Apart from that the 2080Ti is about 40% faster for madVR related tasks over the 1080Ti.

thanks, though 2080Ti is quite a bit more expensive than 1080Ti.
of which, the entire RTX series are a tad more expensive than the Pascal cards, so unless they have any sizeable advantage then i doubt it'd be worth it.

[ryrynz]

No need to quote my post.
They're worth it to anyone dealing with HDR 4K and 60FPS content wanting to unlock high/very high NGU modes for the most part, the 10 series still represents excellent value for madVR tasks
and right now I can't see any point in recommending the new cards apart from the 2080Ti right now unless you want the best madVR performance you can get though the 2080 would make sense if buying new as based on what I've seen so far it's about the same price as the 1080Ti.

[Betroz]

Well I can't disable the Black Level setting in my LG C8, and all reviews online recommend to set it to Low anyways. I guess I have to take a picture of my TV later to prove it.

[huhn]

reviews don't try to opimise for HTPC usage.

if you have your GPU at full range RGB. than this answers your question: "Like I said, I then get raised blacks / lighter image."
the option with the most "risen black level" is correct. because with a full range signal you can only get a clipped black/whites or correct one(ignoring madVR setting and expecting or defaults).
just try my very easy to do test with the image.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by huhn

reviews don't try to opimise for HTPC usage.

if you have your GPU at full range RGB. than this answers your question: "Like I said, I then get raised blacks / lighter image."
the option with the most "risen black level" is correct. because with a full range signal you can only get a clipped black/whites or correct one(ignoring madVR setting and expecting or defaults).
just try my very easy to do test with the image.

Thanks for reply. Will come back here later when I have re-tested this again.

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Thanks for reply. Will come back here later when I have re-tested this again.

Hi, I follow LG OLED very closely and they all have roughly the same settings in this area, I can guarantee that is the recommended settings you've been given arent working correctely for you, you either have a fault or something setup incorrectly.

Double check the following again:

PC

Graphics card set to FULL RGB 4:4:4
MADVR set to 0-255
video player set to MADVR renderer

Try these settings as a test but also report your current settings.

TV

Black level HIGH
Gamma 2.2
Brightness 49
OLED light 50

With these settings and using the black clipping pattern you should see a black crush and will probs only see 20+ flashing.

report back what you get.

Which movie player are you using?

[iSeries]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Thanks for reply. Will come back here later when I have re-tested this again.

This all might be better off in the general thread but yes as others have said, MadVR at 0-255, GPU at 0-255, and black level high will be correct.

However, my experience with LG TVs, they all behave exactly the same when it comes to RGB - they are better near-black when fed limited range. For example, with my C7 brightness at default 50, using the pattern from https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post46798617, with a complete 0-255 chain, the first square that is meant to be visible (which is actually the second square, the first square is completely black) is crushed to black, but with MadVR at 16-235, GPU at 0-255, and TV at low, that square is visible. I've had 5 LG TVs over 10 years, and they have all acted like this.

[mclingo]

i've always had better control of black clipping feeding mine correctly, you'll get an extra conversion using limted in MADVR which can degrade the picture in other ways?

[iSeries]

There's no extra conversion with MadVR limited, GPU full, TV at limited (LG low). Also, with your brightness at default, test the pattern linked above :-)

[Manni]

Originally Posted by huhn

the issue from blackbar detection comes from it runs on the CPU not because of d3d11. it is clearly possible to do it on the GPU and planned too if i'm not mistaken. but not 100 % sure why you want that on the GPU it's not like copyback hurts notable on good GPU but a GPU version of blackbar detection is clearly not going to be free.

I don't really mind whether the black bars detection is done by the CPU or the GPU, I would only like to be able to use D3D11 native instead of having to select D3D11 copyback and lose performance simply because I need the black bars detection.

If DXVA2 copyback performs better than D3D11 native, then I might go back to DXVA2 copyback and not care much, otherwise I'd still like to be able to use D3D11 native without losing black bars detection, as I shift the picture to the top of the screen for my manual masking (single mask at the bottom of my 16/9 screen when playing 2.35 or 2.4 content) and can't do without it.

EDIT: also I forgot we needed D3D11 to get 10bits without FSE, that's probably why I'm using it. I don't want to use FSE unless I can't do otherwise (i.e. in 3D) due to the long HDMI resync it causes here when displaying a menu on screen, so full screen windowed in 10bits is a requirement for me. Unless I'm mistaken on that point, going back to DXVA2 isn't possible.

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by iSeries

There's no extra conversion... :-)

you'll get a crushed desktop in this config though so web and youtube and other stuff will be crushed too wont it?

[huhn]

it depends on your GPU but i have a hard time to see d3d11 win at all if you care about GPU performance until madshi switches to d3d11 render pipe. i have no proper way to measure copyback cost but for a modern high performance GPU it's not much at all. but using d3d11 even the madVR OSD tells you what it costs.

i still don't understand why you care about decoder costing you GPU performance but blackbar detection is fine when it takes GPU performance.

time will tell if copyback cost more or doing blackbar detection on the GPU.
even through copyback has other benefits.

[iSeries]

Originally Posted by mclingo

you'll get a crushed desktop in this config though so web and youtube and other stuff will be crushed too wont it?

In terms of video playback, there is no extra conversion - MadVR outputs limited range, GPU assumes it's full range and just passes it through. Only when GPU is at limited range would there be an extra conversion.

And sure the desktop is crushed, but the TV has lots of presets. I use ISF bright room with the black level set to high, and ISF dark room set to black level low (all other settings kept identical between them, so switching between bright and dark the only difference is the black level setting). Mine is an HTPC so I don't really use it for anything else anyway (I use the TVs YouTube and other apps with ARC). I know you use Kodi DSplayer, and that has the option to display in 16-235 for correct UI levels with a limited>full>limited chain.