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14th October 2019, 10:18 | #1861 | Link |
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MPC-HC 1.8.4 (LAV v0.73.1) uses libaom for AV1 decoding, 1.8.5 (LAV v0.74) uses dav1d. dav1d isn't optimized for 10 bit AV1 yet and it seems for this particular case and your hardware that libaom is faster (for 8 bit dav1d is much faster). Probably same problem for mpv. As dav1d matures this problem will be solved.
https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d/issues/216 https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d/issues/78 Last edited by sneaker_ger; 14th October 2019 at 10:20. |
15th October 2019, 00:27 | #1862 | Link |
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And VMAF isn't THAT great a metric. Many encoders will do some more sophisticated things internally. particularly around maintaining temporal coherence. VMAF does at least include a lightweight interframe comparison metric, but it doesn't do anything new to figure out how the variation of quality of individual frames impacts the overall viewer experience.
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15th October 2019, 00:31 | #1863 | Link | |
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23rd October 2019, 13:02 | #1864 | Link |
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First commercial AV1 hardware decoder, claimed by Chips&Media and it's called Wave510A.
Can handle 4K60fps AV1 main profile using one core@500MHz and expands to dual core@1000MHz for 8K60fps. Supports AV1 8bit/10bit up to 8Kx8K and up to 50Mbps More here: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15003...av1-decoder-ip and here: https://en.chipsnmedia.com/page/product_view/5919
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24th October 2019, 16:46 | #1866 | Link | |
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I wish there was some hint on how many transistors this takes, so we could estimate the silicon cost of adding it to a chip. It could be bigger than normal as this is JUST an AV1 decoder, without sharing anything with H.264/HEVC/VP9/etcetera decoders. In a more mature implementation, one would expect an integrated decoder which supports multiple bitstreams. That takes a lot fewer transistors in total that having all those as independent decoders. 400/500 MHz is pretty reasonable, as it can run in a processor in a relatively lower power state for better battery life on long-term content. I am not a deep SoC guy, so take all above with an appropriately scaled grain of salt. I'm looking forward to seeing an announcement for the first device with HW AV1 decode. AV1 isn't relevant for premium content until a material portion of customers have devices with HW decoders with integrated HW DRM. So much hinges on whether the additive cost of AV1 decode will be low enough to be a default in lower cost SoCs in the next year or two. I'm kinda startled how murky that still is as we approach 2020. |
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26th October 2019, 22:09 | #1871 | Link |
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Yes.
Possibly every video but we can't say for sure. It will cost a lot of cpu time/money to convert all videos in all resolutions (+SDR/HDR) to AV1. For the longest time Youtube did not encode all videos to VP9 either. So we don't really know how it will be for AV1. |
26th October 2019, 22:39 | #1872 | Link | |
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27th October 2019, 11:44 | #1875 | Link |
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No. Google encodes into VP9 only videos with more than N number of views or views pre day where N or N/day are yet to be determined.
I really doubt that considering that AV1 is up to two orders of magnitude more computationally expensive and older x86 CPUs cannot even decode FullHD 60fps videos encoded in it in real time. |
27th October 2019, 14:18 | #1876 | Link | |
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For example, it wouldn't surprise me if the total stream watch time for AV1 is already above HEVC due to YouTube encoding low res versions of popular videos. Mozilla released some numbers that suggested AV1 Firefox video views on their nightly channel rapidly rose to 20% of all video plays just before YouTube paused their AV1 rollout. Would be interested to see where that's gone since. Instagram already uses a software decoder for VP9 on Android ( a version of libvpx surprisingly) so switching to dav1d and AV1 for popular content isn't totally unbelievable even before hardware decoders are widespread. (I'm not sure if AV1 would be much better in terms of bitrate than VP9 for their user generated content at low bitrates, but if SVT and dav1d are sufficiently better than libvpx then it would actually save them time and energy to upgrade. I'd love to see a real world comparison of watching something like Breaking Bad on a phone on a metered connection. What are realistic bitrates for these users, if you can get a 30% bitrate saving just from synthetic film grain and AV1's tools appear to work better at lower bitrates how much does the software decoding actually cost you? Once you factor in network savings is it actually noticeable against the baseline of having the screen on? What about in the download scenario? Is it worth the battery hit to see 5 more episodes on your monthly bandwidth allowance? Last edited by dapperdan; 27th October 2019 at 14:23. |
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27th October 2019, 17:38 | #1877 | Link |
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I wonder why dav1d developers have dedicated time to optimize for SSE2. Isn't SSSE3 already old enough? AMD has catched up and implemented SSSE3 in 2011. Even outdated Core 2 Duo has SSSE3.
While 10 bits decoding has literally zero optimizations till moment. P.S. Few years ago I have tested 10 years old laptop with Pentium T4200 (SSSE3) which now rests unused. It could barely play Youtube VP9 720p videos while still dropped some frames, leave alone AV1 with its 3x complexity. AV1 would be actually a downgrade for this kind of hardware (from VP9 720p to AV1 360/480p). And we're talking about CPU with SSSE3. Last edited by IgorC; 27th October 2019 at 18:58. |
27th October 2019, 19:02 | #1878 | Link | |
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28th October 2019, 10:43 | #1880 | Link |
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dav1ds AVX2 is fine. If you want to properly compare SSSE3 vs AVX2, then you need to look at Single Threaded benchmarks. Multi-Threading is often limited in scaling, where such differences can "hide".
But you should also not expect twice the performance from AVX2, since once you optimize everything possible with SSSE3/AVX2, the remaining parts that cannot be optimized so easily will impact the performance the most.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 28th October 2019 at 10:45. |
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