Button over video, button & subpicture question

[Séamus]

yep, and I'm guessing there's over 30 buttons

[RB]

Originally posted by jel
@RB
as i asked earlier, would you have to remove the (with Stop) attributes from the corresponding substream BOV subpics using your method, or does it not matter?

I always do this as it seems logical. To remove the Display Stop just set data end time to 00:00:00:00 in data editor.

@Séamus
Of course the "dummy subs" in the non-BOV subtitle streams don't have to be blank, they can be any valid subtitle, just make sure they start and end exactly where the BOV sub starts/ends.

[influenza]

Of course the "dummy subs" in the non-BOV subtitle streams don't have to be blank, they can be any valid subtitle, just make sure they start and end exactly where the BOV sub starts/ends.

What I find very annoying about BOV is that you won't have any subs. SO I usually put in the buttons in the subpicture stream of my own language. This way you also solve the dummy subpic 'problem'

[Séamus]

Wanted to let you guys know how my project was going along

Not so good actually
So, as you know I first imported only 10 subtitle streams and then made the BOVs. But upon importing the rest of the subtitle streams I noticed that the last 4 streams do not match at all, for any of the buttons.

These are director's comments streams. 23 - 26
www.kleir.be/bov02.jpg

I'm not sure what to do with this
The thing is, in the orginal movie, the Bovs do not work with stream 23-26 either.

thx

[Arky]

Hi Séamus, I would like to help here, but I am not entirely sure what you mean when you say that your subtitle streams "do not match at all" with your BOVs.

I am a little confused because, as I am sure you are aware, you cannot display seperate BOV sub pics simultaneously with another (i.e. language/words) subpic stream.

Hence, can you please clarify what you mean by your subs "not matching". Thanks. Hopefully we can solve this problem


Arky ;o)


P.S. From what I can gather from the filenames in your screenshot, you are authoring a 16:9 project (apologies if this is an incorrect assumption). Have you taken account of this aspect ratio when creating your BOV subpics?

[Séamus]

First of all, I know BOV and subtitle can't be active at the exact same time, but they can both be enabled at the same time, meaning...
-subtitle-subtitle-bov-subtitle
On the original movie, the bovs appear between 2 subtitle subs
So they're kind of mixed if you know what I mean

And yes, this is 16:9 (all subs are imported as 16:9)
But as you see in the screenshot streams 23-26, how am I supposed to align them with the other streams, should I shift the subs and change the duration or something ? (Scenarist says something about unable to create highlight because not all the streams are aligned at the bov point)

Thx for the help
My first BOV title turns out to be a nightmare

[Arky]

Thanks for clarifying that, Séamus.

Yeah, I agree that BOVs can be placed in between subs. Just making sure, not trying to teach you to suck eggs or anything.

I am accustomed to DVD SP 2, more than Scenarist, but can't you zoom up on your asset tracks? If so, is it not clear if a BOV is conflicting (i.e. trying to display at the same time) with each of your last four subtitle streams? Surely it would be readily apparent within the timeline? Again, I am not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs here, I'm just trying to eliminate possibilities, so may I ask if you had to manually edit all your other (working) subtitle streams to make room for your BOVs, and perhaps overlooked doing the same with the last four streams? Only you know the exact procedures which led your project to the current stage, so it is quite difficult for an outsider to guess where the problem may have arisen from.

Perhaps you could open your problematic subtitle streams in an editor, and manually check the timecodes match those of the working sub streams at the positions where the BOVs are supposed to appear?

What happens when you preview your project from the timeline? Do the subs still fail, or do they appear to work ok?

To be honest, I think you have already come to a logical conclusion ("should I shift the subs and change the duration?")in the sense that it might be sensible to cut your losses and just go ahead and manually edit your problematic streams so that they do fit. There's no sense in you wasting valuable time.

I apologise that I have been unable to give you a definitive answer - I would very much have liked to. It is very strange that all your other streams are working, but not your last four (although, obviously, it is common for different languages to require different sentence lengths and thus different display durations for the viewer to be able to read them in time). Well, I wish you the best of luck, and I look forward to seeing a post from you, saying that you have succeeded!

Kind regards,


Arky ;o)

[influenza]

What you should do (or could do) is: open the sst for one of the tracks that is alligned properly (the forced one) and compare this to the sst of one of the non alligning. The timecodes (for the buttons) should be the same. If they are not something strange has happened with the extraction of the subs. If they do something's wrong while importing.

Good Luck.

[Séamus]

Substreams 23-26 are directors commentaries
In the original movie bov does not work when one of these subtitle streams is selected, which would explain things.Bov is not meant to work with these streams.

The problem is that Scenarist complains (when building the project) if I leave them like they are.

[influenza]

isn't there a different setup between pgcs or so? Maybe you can send me the ifo so I can take a look at it

[jel]

in the sense that it might be sensible to cut your losses and just go ahead and manually edit your problematic streams so that they do fit. There's no sense in you wasting valuable time.

i would tend to agree with Arky on this one

correct me if i am wrong (i havent had a chance to test this personally) but by editing your BOV bitmaps to have no end duration (by removing the stop) they will 'snap' to a scenes start/end times and cannot be modfied.
now this will work on the majority of BOV titles as the BOV start/end times are usually authored so that they are the only subpictures to fall within a scene. however this is not the case with this title.
so....
what i would suggest (given the work you have already put into this) is to alter substream 23 to 26 to suit.

substream 23: looks pretty close. simply add the largest subtitle with (no stop) to that scene and adjust adjacent subpics duration to start/end outside of this scene time
substream 24: again pretty close, so repeat as above
substream 25 and 26: this is where you may have problems as there are two (relatively) long subtitles that cross this scene. open up the respective subpics in a picture viewer and see if they are the same or not. if they are the same, simply delete one of them and make the other (no Stop) and add to the scene. now if they are not the same, personally i would adjust the first subpic to be (no stop) and add to the scene and i would manually adjust the start time of the second subpic to start after the scene (eg. @ 00:22:24;04) and to end at say 00:22:25;00 and adjust the following subpics start time so there is no overlap in times (eg change start time to 00:22:25;01)
now admittedly this will result in the second subpic only being displayed for a short time but at least it will be displayed.

sorry its not a perfect solution but it should work.

good luck
j

@influenza (and i mean no offence in my question - you are after all a BOV guru) but....
i am a bit confused as to the importance of the different pgs? i was under the impression that regardless of pgc structure it was the tracks highlight that was critical for BOV and that unless you had a seperate track for the commentary, then all substreams must have an aligned subpic for BOV to work?

[Séamus]

influenza: I sent you a pm with the ifo file

I will try it like you said jel
I will adjust stream 23-26 for every bov moment

and I haven't even created half of the bovs
There's over 30 bov's in the movie

[influenza]

@Jel: yes you're right (talking bout scenarist). I've seen some dvds that have a let's say strange layout. Multiple pgcs with different characteristics like pgc1 has other subs than pgc2 . Obviously authored with something else than scenarist.

But in this case that couldn't be the case, so I'm sorry for the confusion

@Seamus: looked at your ifo, and it's not very special. So I can't draw any conclusions from it.