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8th November 2005, 11:51 | #201 | Link | |||
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Last edited by Elias; 8th November 2005 at 11:57. |
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8th November 2005, 12:14 | #202 | Link |
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I understand quite well the interest in trying out new things, but considering my needs (receiver-based decoding of any multi-channel material over S/PDIF and highest audio quality all around), as well as the procedure I've standardized myself upon (DVD Decrypter -> DGIndex -> GKnot (not autogk) => .AVI, then VDubMod muxes the .AVI and audio extracted from the above DGIndex step (DTS whenever available, then 5.1 AC3, and Vorbis for all 2ch material), it doesn't make sense for me to use AAC for anything (since my receiver can't decode it, can any?), or a container format other than OGM. I've never had any trouble with OGM, and VDubMod supports it fully, unlike MKV. When Matroska support in VDubMod materializes, I'd be happy to start using that. VDubMod is so useful for things above and beyond encoding and muxing, I'm not yet willing to abandon it and start creating files it can't read in.
Can anyone see any flaws in my logic? Am I missing anything? I understand the preference for formats that properly support Unicode (I'm a big supporter myself), but I don't need anything other than vanilla English support for my own purposes, so I'd like to wait for VDubMod to properly support the full Matroska spec before switching from OGM. Does this make sense to anyone? Also, why are people even discussing anything made by Apple? What could possibly be interesting about anything QT-related, in the context of the discussion of the selection of superior formats? I think there's something key to this whole thing that I'm missing. @Vlada: I'm also curious about the role pixel shaders have in video playback. Does anyone know? |
8th November 2005, 12:57 | #203 | Link |
李姗倩 Lǐ Shān Qiàn
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Yeah, basically I totally agree with you, I've been waiting for SV8,
but I suppose that won't come soon... BTW before someone gets wrong idea reading vlada's post: MPC could mean both Media Player Classic and Musepack. Vlada said "MPC seems to be dead," but that doesn't mean Media Player Classic. This is getting too off-topic, but there is some complication about Musepack. |
8th November 2005, 13:45 | #204 | Link |
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Liisachan> I don't say that MP3 is better format then AAC, but current implementations of AAC (FAAC, Nero) give sometimes a worse result then MP3
(LAME 3.97). Have a look at this thread. Of course AAC has a higher potential then MP3, but it just seems that current encoders don't use it. Regarding Nero, I meant to say that it has many bugs in all of it's applications. Not that there is a bug in AAC encoder. But anyway the Nero AAC encoder doesen't seem to give a good quality results, but the people from Nero say they are working on improvement. RyosukeFC> VDM is also a dead project and is not developed for more then a year, IIRC. So don't expect to have a correct support for MKV there. To work with MKV use AVI-Mux GUI or MKVToolnix. I don't say, that OGM is a bad container, but it is unsupported and you will likely run into problems with it. I would suggest you to produce a video file using DGIndex+AviSynth+VD (or VDM) as you do now, then mux it with original DTS or AC3 sound with MKVToolnix. It easy to do and it gives you a lot of new possibilities. A perfect splitter with chapters support, a good support for multiple audio tracks and a lot more. I would SUGGEST you to switch to MKV, but if you don't, it's your choice. I can't make you P.S. Sorry for this offtopic. Last edited by vlada; 8th November 2005 at 13:47. |
8th November 2005, 13:50 | #205 | Link | |
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VirtualDubMod1.5.10.2 is dated August 29, 2005, and it's one of my everyday tools for typesetting when subbing. |
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8th November 2005, 13:54 | #206 | Link |
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AAC is generally a really crappy codec, MP3 is so mature that is can easily produce similar quality nowadays, to get a real improvement you should still use OGG Vorbis Audio, it's a real free format and it has superior sound quality. He may not do wonders at low bitrates like HE-AAC but for general material it's the best codec to choose.
Unfortunately OGG doesn't support mixing channels together for multichannel audio, thus you need higher bitrates for 6ch audio. However AAC sounds pretty much crappy on a good 5.1 sound system with almost any bitrate, AC3 or DTS are still far superior to AAC. I think the problem is the prefiltering on playback that AAC requires, it uses basically the same trick MP3Pro introduced. OGG Vorbis should also work in MP4 so you can actually keep using and just ditch AAC. AAC is just hyped because it's prolly the next industry standard for audio and the thing you call MPEG-4 audio, however, it sucks. Industry likes it as it's just another codec that they can make lots of cash with by licensing and of course it supports DRM, just the same reason they like the mp4 container, as you can also enhance it with DRM. Anyone still using ogm must be an idiot Last edited by videomixer9; 8th November 2005 at 13:59. |
8th November 2005, 14:07 | #207 | Link | ||
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mp3 can use DRM too if I remember correct, yet Apple, Nero, Winamp and other companies favour AAC over mp3. The only reason why mp3 is still being used over other superior codecs like AAC, OGG Vorbis etc, is because of its compatibility. That's it. mp3 is old and outdated (even though Lame is really good), and as much as the current implementations of AAC don't use the full potential of AAC, I seriously doubt they're all inferior to mp3. Quote:
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8th November 2005, 14:21 | #208 | Link |
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it's obvious for anyone who got a good sound system and some working ears, AAC often suffers from crispy sound and especially with 6ch audio has a noise loaden flat sound. The decoder applies this special filter for HE-AAC. For 2ch audio it suffers mostly from the crisp sound that's not really what i'd call clear and in blind hearing test i'd bet most ppl would say an 96kbps MP3 sounds better than the same bitrate AAC file. AAC only has a better scaling on low bitrates, but with video that's not meant for low bitrate streaming you'd never use so low rates anyways, and to get 6ch AAC to sound good you're almost at rates many AC3 streams are at anyways.
AAC encoders are far from mature, just like most H264 encoders. Maturity is one thing you should make a choice by, and there is not a single mature AAC encoder unlike there are for ogg or mp3. |
8th November 2005, 14:59 | #209 | Link | |||||
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but yeah it would be interesting to see a codec comparison comparing ac3/dts performance on 5.1 compared to aac encoded from a real raw 5.1 source at lets say 192kbps i never saw such a comparison but a wild guess would be you are totally wrong Quote:
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Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora | Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free |
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8th November 2005, 21:21 | #211 | Link | |
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Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora | Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free |
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8th November 2005, 23:33 | #212 | Link |
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Liisachan> I didn't know about this VDM release, I was using 1.5.10.1 from December 2003 - almost 2 years old. I couldn't find a changelog, do you know what's new? It would be great if somebody starts working on this program again.
Elias> The comparison of MP3, AAC and Vorbis, I reffered to, is from August 2005, it is the newest one I saw. bond> What is meant by channel mixing? Is it something like joint-stereo? You create a "middle channel" and then you only store differences between the main one and the other channels? That shouldn't be so hard to implement. Why doesn't Vorbis support it? Btw. I think we got quite off-topic. Why not split this thread and move this discussion to the proper section? Vlada |
8th November 2005, 23:58 | #213 | Link | |
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vorbis doesnt support it as noone implemented it till now
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Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora | Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free |
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9th November 2005, 00:59 | #214 | Link | |
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Streaming-related Problems
A few users reported that recent versions of Media Player Classic got problems when handling streaming formats, such as .asx.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...095#post735095 Quote:
(1) MPC doesn't understand the relative path in .asx, such as Code:
<ENTRY> <REF HREF="./relative/path/to/video.mpeg" /> </ENTRY> Code:
<BANNER HREF="http://sample.com/logo.png"> <ABSTRACT>About Us</ABSTRACT> <MOREINFO HREF="http://sample.com/dont.play.me.html" /> </BANNER> (4) The same ASX file doesn't work if the extension is not .asx (This should be 'by design') (5) Streamed .rm / .ra doesn't play just because the file extension is .ram (6) Streamed vorbis.ogg doesn't play by default. Using File extensions|.ogg|RealMedia may fix the problem as a workaround. (7) Streamed (? Embedded-in-HTML?) OGM doesn't play by MPC's internal splitter. An external filter like OggDS is needed. @vlada Just click the green book icon to see changelog in sf. http://sourceforge.net/project/shown...ease_id=352709 Last edited by Liisachan; 9th November 2005 at 01:08. |
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9th November 2005, 14:13 | #215 | Link | |
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9th November 2005, 14:50 | #216 | Link | |
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BeHappy - AviSynth-based audio transcoding tool Audio encoding via AviSynth On2 VP7 is great in quality but it is unusable for long-term video backup puposes! Sincerely Yours, MCPD/MCTS |
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9th November 2005, 18:42 | #217 | Link | |
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Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora | Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free |
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10th November 2005, 17:49 | #219 | Link | |
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10th November 2005, 18:55 | #220 | Link |
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The latest build does not appear to correctly display the streams properties within the MP4 container: -
Notice how it lists the first AAC stream as being "stereo", when it is in-fact 6Ch (5.1) "surround sound". Cheers
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