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Old 4th March 2016, 08:43   #36641  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by kabal223 View Post
Well, after some serious testing the only fix for my problem is using a 58hz refresh rate, now the playback is almost perfect, thank you guys!
Really, at 58 Hz? I would have thought that would make it worse.
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Old 4th March 2016, 09:18   #36642  |  Link
kabal223
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Me too Warner, but no, everything is perfect now, maybe it compensate with the clock deviation or something like that, because right now the clock deviation is like 0.000x% and before was much higher. Im really happy now, Ive been testing for like two hours with movies with a lot of panning (like the martian) and every was really smooth, with no visible dropped frames or choppy movement, and the best, no flicker!! (I hate flicker). Ive been testing on three different setups (a tv, a projector and a pc screen) and Ive got the same result on all of them.

Thank you so much!

Last edited by kabal223; 4th March 2016 at 09:25.
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Old 4th March 2016, 11:08   #36643  |  Link
Sunset1982
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I've had some problems starting movies the last two days. When I first start a file the screen gets black and my tv shows no connection. When I press ctrl +alt + del desktop comes back and mpc-hc and madvr is closed. When I try to start the file again, it works flawless.

Someone had same problems?

Don't know if it is madvr90.13 which I installed these days or the windows 10 Update which was installed 3 days ago... I'll test with older madvr today.


Next thing I've seen these days with madvr 90.13 and the new glitch handling method activated was that during playback my screen gets dark and back again, showing "exclusive mode failed" message and then movie goes on playing fine. Don't know if its the new madvr option, but after disabling this option everything worked fine except for the other problem above.
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Old 4th March 2016, 11:27   #36644  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
I've had some problems starting movies the last two days.
Do you use NNEDI3? It's likely related to that, downgrade to 0.90.11 until 0.90.14 comes out.
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Old 4th March 2016, 11:46   #36645  |  Link
kalston
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Sigmoidal light seems to reduce aliasing with Jinc AR.

Sigmoidal light:


Gamma light:


Original:
http://www.royalgrass.de/wp-content/...grass-lawn.jpg

So, maybe it can be recommended in general for upscaling?
Nice find, thanks!

Took me a while to notice but sigmoidal looks a bit "cleaner" to me now. Very interesting as 1080p>1440p with Jinc AR is 99% of the upscaling I do so this sounds like something worth checking out when I get back home. Need to test this with other samples.
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Old 4th March 2016, 12:00   #36646  |  Link
Sunset1982
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Do you use NNEDI3? It's likely related to that, downgrade to 0.90.11 until 0.90.14 comes out.
that is possible, cause I changed some options in my upscaling profiles. Will test it out...
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Old 4th March 2016, 12:09   #36647  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leandronb View Post
Updated to the newer version and after a while with no problems it gave me the same error.
I used the debug mode to create the log, it created a 69MB file and i compressed it to 3mb and uploaded to mega.
Steps i did, opened an episode, went fullscreen, skipped 1, skipped 2 and it gave me the black screen i said earlier, hit esc to exit fullscreen and closed mpc.
this is the link:
https://mega.nz/#!tAIVEIoL!YjThiXXYo...2yv0isJBuGLuGU
Finally had a look at this. According to your log the decoder is not sending any frames when the problem occurs. I don't know why. It doesn't look like a madVR bug to me, but it's hard to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Madshi, this is till happening on my 960 using latest drivers with similar resolution content with .13. Tried earlier drivers, still crashes.

Occurs when I play this and have NNEDI3 enabled (doubling or quadrupling) and downscale into a window. .10 doesn't crash.
Last weekend I was able to reproduce it, but today I can't. Can you please upload your settings.bin, and also make a screenshot of the OSD so that I can see which exact resolution you're playing at, and which scaling algos madVR lists etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS-DOS View Post
Could you make madVR not render frames, or render at extremely low framerates (1 fps), or at 1x1 resolution when the player is minimized?
I'll add it to my to do list, but with a low priority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
Tested. Don't see any difference at all. Present Queue drops the same with or without this option enabled when the seek bar is on screen in FSE mode.
As was said before, the present queue dropping with the seek bar on is INTENTIONAL to speed up GUI reaction times. That's not what the new option is about. Some users had low present queue fill state without the seek bar visible, when using 10bit output. The new option may help with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
It's been discussed by a few of us here, but no one seems to be able to track this down. Since v0.90.11 playback results in a black screen for me. I can pull up PotPlayer's OSD and madVR's OSD... sound plays and so does the video, except that the video is just black. Here is the screen shots which clearly shows something is broken. First shot is of v0.90.10 and the second is v0.90.13 (11 & 12 were the same)
Can you please upload your settings.bin so that I can try to reproduce the problem on my PC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post
Well I sort of figured out what the problem with Nvidia 3d vision was:

I normally keep the monitor (asus pg278q) at 120hz

At 120Hz, 3d playback is enabled but I still see double with the glasses
At 60Hz, playback works. Is there a way to automatically switch to 60Hz when a 3D file is played?

...nevermind, the above only works occassionally

Switching to any resolution with the windows display properties option while the video is playing makes 3d work in windowed mode but causes intermittent crashing of MPC-HC when changing to fullscreen. Using the nvidia control panel to change anything seems less reliable. Seems more Nvidia bugs.

After some more testing, this only worked for few tries then stopped as well. After turning off stereoscopic 3d in the windows display properties and back on it started working again. no idea why the behavior is so inconsistent.

But the key to get it working was changing to a different 3D resolution or frequency while the video was already playing. After stopping the video and closing MPC-HC, and reopening the video, 3D again does not work until changing the resolution or frequency. Changing the resolution with the windows 10 display properties seems like the most reliable method.
Have you tried letting madVR enable/disable OS 3D support when you play a 3D vs 2D movie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
I tried out the alternative glitch option on d3d11 playback (8 bit). My queues are now able to go above 2-3/3. (However, setting them to 16 will max them out at 14-15/15 for some reason).

I get presentation glitches "more", but only in situations that I'm supposed to have them, like when I empty the present queue on right clicking out of FSE, toggling full screen and FSE, seeking, etc. In normal playback, I don't get any extra presentation glitches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
I'm experiencing a/v desync right from the beginning of the playback.
Is the desync constant or varying? Are you sure that the new option causes the desync? You definitely don't have it when using the old option? What happens if you use D3D9 presentation? Do you have the same AV sync as the new D3D11 option, or the old?

Do you have the "render frames in advance" (or however it was named) NVidia GPU control panel option set to "application controlled"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
2) I really like it! I liked "sharpen edges" but there was a little bit of ringing sometimes that stopped me to always use it. Now it's very clean, I haven't seen any problems with it and I'm considering to use it with low values (and it's a big step for me because like I've said, I don't like sharpening filters).
3) Hard to tell... LL on is closer to the source (less bright with high sharpening values) but it generates artefacts around letters, I don't think it's ringing.
I will post screenshots ASAP but I still prefer LL off for now.
Glad to hear that! Looking forward to your screenshots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
For me, with Nvidia default drivers, GTX860M laptop, I cannot use Direct3D11 without getting a mpc-hc crash. Everything works fine if I do not try to use Direct3D11
Attaching stuff to this forum doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I am still confused by the decoding of HDR content. To my understanding, an UHD Blu-ray looks like this:
  • Base Layer - HDR10: (up to 1,000 nits, DCI-P3 -> Rec. 2020) 10-bit HEVC;
  • Enhancement Layer - Dolby Vision: (up to 4,000 nits, DCI-P3 -> Rec. 2020) 12-bit HDR.
HDR -> SDR conversion is possible, but what happens when LAV Video decodes the HDR10 stream? Does the HDR metadata float on top of the base layer master, or is the entire video stream remapped to the output gamut?
The decoder outputs the video as it was compressed. Which for HDR10 means it's usually 10bit with a PQ transfer function. The metadata is totally separate and is for the whole stream, not per frame. Remapping is done by madVR according to your madVR settings, not by LAV.

The only spec difference Dolby Vision brings is 12bit instead of 10bit. Dolby Vision doesn't have different gamut or peak luminance values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Also, if an example color gamut (BT.709) is calibrated to 100 nits.

What would happen if I set HDR peak luminance to 1000 nits? The peaks would fall well outside the cube -- this would create a washed out image, correct?

In this case, would the recommendation be to set the display to 100 - 200 nits instead?
The higher you set the peak luminance value in the madVR settings, the darker the image gets, because madVR expects your high display luminance to make up for the darker image. If you set th peak luminance value in madVR much higher than it really is, you'll get a very dark image. Generally, don't worry too much about these things. Just calibrate your display as you would usually do (maybe optimize for more brightness, though), then try different peak luminance values in the madVR settings to see which looks best to your eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
More on the anti-ringing changes, here are a couple of other test patterns:Looking at these with Catmull-Rom +AR +LL, comparing 0.89.18 (oldest build I had on my machine) and 0.90.13, I'm actually seeing a bit more ringing in the new builds.
Aliasing doesn't seem to be a problem though, just ringing.

Looking near the center of Zone Plate A:And the lower-left corner:
Patterns were scaled to 952x714 - just what the MPC-HC window scaled it to when snapped to the side of my 1080p screen.
Thanks! Will have a look at these...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTrojan View Post
If you have a HDR movie, I would let the TV decode it instead of the PC & MadVR.
I wouldn't. The TV will probably have much lower remapping algorithms than madVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabal223 View Post
Hi guys, I have a problem with madvr playing 23.976 on every 60hz display I have, its like the normal (and fine with me) judder effect but much more worse, its totally choppy, I mean, it looks like something is wrong with the 3:2 pulldown because is more "jumpy" than normal. This doest happen with others renders, only with madvr, and also it happens on every player/setup Ive tested on my house (using madvr of course). The only way to fix this is turning on smooth motion, but I dont like that effect because in 60hz I can see some ghosting on some scenes.

Please help! How can I play 60hz on madvr? (I dont like neither 24hz or 48hz because I totally hate flicker)
Can your TV do any higher than 60Hz? Ideal would be 72Hz.

madVR's pulldown playback (23fps at 60Hz) isn't really very optimized atm, it's not as smooth as it could be. 23fps at 60Hz is really what smooth motion FRC was mode for. If you hate the smooth motion FRC look, then your best bet is to try to set your TV to a simple multiply of the video framerate, which would be 47.952Hz or 71.928Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post
This fix very old bug with D3D11@Intel HD4000/HD2500@Win7 - on second (and in more rare cases - on first/only) monitor exit from FS Exclusive (with video played) start massive frame repeats/drops for seconds(5-20) sometimes .
Good to hear! Do you notice any audio/video desync when using the new option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Sigmoidal light seems to reduce aliasing with Jinc AR.
In some scenes it does. But if there's a lot of visible ringing artifacts, it sometimes makes things worse. Which is why I'm not sure I should recommend it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
madshi, any plans on adding a "black level correction" checkbox?

I'm about halfway through Peaky Blinders and still have no idea why the blu-ray is so bright. Blacks are almost gray.

Would love an option to correct these mastering issues. DVDs seem to suffer from it more than blu-rays.
You can press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I to switch input black levels through various different values. You can also use file name tags (e.g. "levels=pc" or "levels=double" or "levels=triple") to make madVR always use a specific setting for one specific file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
I've had some problems starting movies the last two days. When I first start a file the screen gets black and my tv shows no connection. When I press ctrl +alt + del desktop comes back and mpc-hc and madvr is closed. When I try to start the file again, it works flawless.
If your TV shows no connection that sounds as if your GPU is switching to a display mode which is not supported by your TV. Are you using custom resolutions? Are you using the display mode switcher? Try removing both, as a test.
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Old 4th March 2016, 15:27   #36648  |  Link
kabal223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Can your TV do any higher than 60Hz? Ideal would be 72Hz.

madVR's pulldown playback (23fps at 60Hz) isn't really very optimized atm, it's not as smooth as it could be. 23fps at 60Hz is really what smooth motion FRC was mode for. If you hate the smooth motion FRC look, then your best bet is to try to set your TV to a simple multiply of the video framerate, which would be 47.952Hz or 71.928Hz.


No, sorry, its a projector and the top is 60hz. For now it seems that 58hz is doing the trick for me, everything is working fine with that refresh rate, I dont know how, but it works.

Thank you so much Madshi.
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Old 4th March 2016, 16:41   #36649  |  Link
SweetLow
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Good to hear! Do you notice any audio/video desync when using the new option?
When i test - no, all is OK. I don't view long movies since this testing (some other interests ), but my children don't complain
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Old 4th March 2016, 17:49   #36650  |  Link
har3inger
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Is the desync constant or varying? Are you sure that the new option causes the desync? You definitely don't have it when using the old option? What happens if you use D3D9 presentation? Do you have the same AV sync as the new D3D11 option, or the old?

Do you have the "render frames in advance" (or however it was named) NVidia GPU control panel option set to "application controlled"?
The desync is subtle and constant, but I didn't have time to let the video go longer to see if it's better or worse. I'm pretty sure the new option is responsible. I turn it on and increase present frames, I get desync. I turn it off and go back to present 3 frames in advance, it goes away. I've only tried 2 video sources with the new option (first time I didn't notice desync with car sound effects and overdubbed narration in Donnie Darko, second time I did by watching lip movements vs voice timing in an episode of House) I haven't used D3D9 presentation for a long time, will try later. Last time I used it it gave me hundreds of presentation glitches per minute but with no or very few dropped frames.

I'm on ATI. The Crimson driver control panel doesn't allow manual tweaking of flip queue size. I have no idea what it is at default. My MPC-HC is renamed, so it shouldn't be triggering any per-app settings in the driver.

When I have a moment I'll troubleshoot this a bit more and let you know what happens.

I've been perfectly happy with 2-3 frames for the present queue with "present a new frame per vsync" unchecked (and 24 GPU 128 cpu) for quite some time now. FRC seems to work just fine even with a small present queue. The stats show it's constantly between 1-3 and I never get presentation glitches or dropped frames (though this could be misreporting). I've kept it this low because the GPU queue drops to a max of 2/24 when I increase present queue to 4 or above, and the present queue fails to fill higher than 4 regardless of how high I set it.
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Old 4th March 2016, 18:05   #36651  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
The desync is subtle and constant, but I didn't have time to let the video go longer to see if it's better or worse. I'm pretty sure the new option is responsible. I turn it on and increase present frames, I get desync. I turn it off and go back to present 3 frames in advance, it goes away. I've only tried 2 video sources with the new option (first time I didn't notice desync with car sound effects and overdubbed narration in Donnie Darko, second time I did by watching lip movements vs voice timing in an episode of House) I haven't used D3D9 presentation for a long time, will try later. Last time I used it it gave me hundreds of presentation glitches per minute but with no or very few dropped frames.

I'm on ATI. The Crimson driver control panel doesn't allow manual tweaking of flip queue size. I have no idea what it is at default. My MPC-HC is renamed, so it shouldn't be triggering any per-app settings in the driver.

When I have a moment I'll troubleshoot this a bit more and let you know what happens.

I've been perfectly happy with 2-3 frames for the present queue with "present a new frame per vsync" unchecked (and 24 GPU 128 cpu) for quite some time now. FRC seems to work just fine even with a small present queue. The stats show it's constantly between 1-3 and I never get presentation glitches or dropped frames (though this could be misreporting). I've kept it this low because the GPU queue drops to a max of 2/24 when I increase present queue to 4 or above, and the present queue fails to fill higher than 4 regardless of how high I set it.
Would be great if you could test all 3 variations (D3D9, D3D11 without the new option checked, D3D11 with new option checked) with the same presentation queue size to make sure that any desync you're seeing isn't caused by the present queue size. Of course if you get frame drop or presentation glitches all the time with a small presentation queue, when using D3D9 etc then you can't test it that way.
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Old 4th March 2016, 20:52   #36652  |  Link
har3inger
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I've gone ahead and done that. I tested:

D3D11 old, 3 present queue: Everything's fine.
D3D9, 3 present queue: Everything's fine.
D3D 11 new, 3 present queue: Everything's fine.

Here's where it's interesting:
D3D9, 16 present queue: a/v desync. Video is noticeably earlier than audio, but you'd have to be looking for it to see it. Didn't bother checking if it gets better/worse over time. I feel like it's a constant displacement.
D3D11 New, 15 present queue (setting it to 16 makes it 15): a/v desync. Exact same amount of perceived desync as D3D9, with video noticeably earlier than audio.
D3D11 Old, 15 present queue: Never fills the present queue above 4-5/15, never fills GPU queue above 3-4/24. Oddly enough, starts with mad stuttering and tons of dropped frames, but after queues stabilize, it settles down and stops dropping frames, with no A/V desync.

All of these above tests are using FSE mode, and I quit the program and reload after each setting just to be sure they're getting applied properly. The OSD reports that the present queues and D3D mode are set as I wanted. Oh yeah, D3D9 isn't throwing tons of glitches anymore. Everything is 0 glitches, 0 dropped frames after queues fill.

Now, in windowed, playing with backbuffer sizes:
D3D9: backbuffer 16, present queue 16: A/V desync in FSE, back out into windowed mode, desync is gone.
D3D11 new: present queue (windowed) 15, present queue FSE 15: A/V desync in FSE, gone in windowed.

It's definitely a problem with the present queues in FSE, and isn't a result of whether I use D3D11 or D3D9, since it affects both. The problem exists in FSE, but disappears in windowed mode with the same number of backbuffer/present frames. I suspect there's desync as well with smaller present queues, but it's been unnoticeable since I set it to max of 3.

Last edited by har3inger; 4th March 2016 at 21:01.
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Old 4th March 2016, 21:28   #36653  |  Link
Werewolfy
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Glad to hear that! Looking forward to your screenshots.
Here is a screenshot that shows clearly the difference between Linear Light on and off for Crispen Edges.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/164352

The value I used was 1.0 in upscaling refinement but the issue is also present in image enhancements. I guess it's ringing after all but it's pretty bad...
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Old 4th March 2016, 22:04   #36654  |  Link
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Does "Use Alternative Glitch-Handling Mode" option reduce visual quality and/or performance in any way?
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Old 4th March 2016, 22:30   #36655  |  Link
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Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Does "Use Alternative Glitch-Handling Mode" option reduce visual quality and/or performance in any way?
Nope. While I'm not too sure what it does exactly, it does seem to be something along the lines of "alternate vsync" basically having less glitches than regular vsync.
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Old 4th March 2016, 22:33   #36656  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
I've gone ahead and done that. I tested:

D3D11 old, 3 present queue: Everything's fine.
D3D9, 3 present queue: Everything's fine.
D3D 11 new, 3 present queue: Everything's fine.

Here's where it's interesting:
D3D9, 16 present queue: a/v desync. Video is noticeably earlier than audio, but you'd have to be looking for it to see it. Didn't bother checking if it gets better/worse over time. I feel like it's a constant displacement.
D3D11 New, 15 present queue (setting it to 16 makes it 15): a/v desync. Exact same amount of perceived desync as D3D9, with video noticeably earlier than audio.
D3D11 Old, 15 present queue: Never fills the present queue above 4-5/15, never fills GPU queue above 3-4/24. Oddly enough, starts with mad stuttering and tons of dropped frames, but after queues stabilize, it settles down and stops dropping frames, with no A/V desync.

All of these above tests are using FSE mode, and I quit the program and reload after each setting just to be sure they're getting applied properly. The OSD reports that the present queues and D3D mode are set as I wanted. Oh yeah, D3D9 isn't throwing tons of glitches anymore. Everything is 0 glitches, 0 dropped frames after queues fill.

Now, in windowed, playing with backbuffer sizes:
D3D9: backbuffer 16, present queue 16: A/V desync in FSE, back out into windowed mode, desync is gone.
D3D11 new: present queue (windowed) 15, present queue FSE 15: A/V desync in FSE, gone in windowed.

It's definitely a problem with the present queues in FSE, and isn't a result of whether I use D3D11 or D3D9, since it affects both. The problem exists in FSE, but disappears in windowed mode with the same number of backbuffer/present frames. I suspect there's desync as well with smaller present queues, but it's been unnoticeable since I set it to max of 3.
Ok, that means the new mode isn't worse than the old, which is good.

Can you roughly quantify the desync amount?

In any case, it kinda looks like a driver issue. My impression is that for some reason your driver doesn't allow a higher than 4 frame queue. The "old" D3D11 mode just had different problems with that than the "new" mode. I assume you have tried different drivers already, and also a "clean" driver install with default settings etc?

Found this:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=403389

So it seems there is a registry setting for the flip queue size for AMD drivers. Maybe it's set to a non-standard value for your GPU for some reason? Try setting it to 16 as a test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
Here is a screenshot that shows clearly the difference between Linear Light on and off for Crispen Edges.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/164352

The value I used was 1.0 in upscaling refinement but the issue is also present in image enhancements. I guess it's ringing after all but it's pretty bad...
Uh, that does look ugly!

Can you please make the original unsharpened frame available (PNG should suffice), so that I can test with that?
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Old 4th March 2016, 22:37   #36657  |  Link
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If your queue isn't filling up, you're probably overtaxing the GPU. Test and see what happens when you set all the scaling to bilinear for example and don't use doubling. Does it still not fill up? Then...as madshi said, it's a driver issue.
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Old 4th March 2016, 23:08   #36658  |  Link
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
You probably rather downloaded the same picture twice.
I checked the image for different pixels (I downloaded them from the image hoster as well), each red pixel differs:
You are probably right. After downloading the two a third time (already did twice before) it finally showed the difference... Maybe some firefox caching problem or something along the lines...

Sorry though.

Greetz, Unr3aL
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Old 4th March 2016, 23:13   #36659  |  Link
Werewolfy
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Uh, that does look ugly!

Can you please make the original unsharpened frame available (PNG should suffice), so that I can test with that?
Sure, here you go

Original
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Old 4th March 2016, 23:18   #36660  |  Link
har3inger
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
If your queue isn't filling up, you're probably overtaxing the GPU. Test and see what happens when you set all the scaling to bilinear for example and don't use doubling. Does it still not fill up? Then...as madshi said, it's a driver issue.
They "fill" from zero and get stuck. It's definitely not dropping queues, which is what it would look like if GPU isn't keeping up. Render times can be <5ms and it wouldn't matter.

The A/V delay is probably on the order of 25-75 ms. It's slight, but it's there. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Only exists when you use very high present queues in FSE.

I've tried only 16.2 crimson for testing the A/V delay. The driver is kinda cruddy and has lots of broken UI/settings functions on laptop, but otherwise runs applications well. Things are all set at default. I don't really want to revert to 15.12 crimson because the new driver is needed for a couple games I have.

Radeonpro doesn't actually work on my computer. It can't find the ATI card. Regedit search shows that the reg key doesn't exist by default. I'll go add it in manually at some point later once I find where my GPU reg settings are.

For now, I might just go back to using a 3 frame queue for present queue. Honestly, I don't really see any difference between 3 and something huge like 12, and FRC behavior doesn't seem to change based on the queue size. I've read before that you need more frames in present queue for FRC, but haven't actually found this to be the case. What would I be looking for, if it's not working properly at low queue sizes?

Last edited by har3inger; 4th March 2016 at 23:22.
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Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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