Gordian Knot is a pain in the ASS.

TravLouJak · 9th January 2004, 18:13

2 years ago Gordian Knot was my favourite program. I have ripped over 1000 music videos from DVD with it. I've been waiting for it to come out with a VOB chapter like batch feature, because ripping 20 chapters seperatley in the case of music video's is tiresome and repetitive. I still used GK though cause it was the best. WAS. I commend you guys for your amazing efforts. However, this program is becoming something only nutter video encoders who know every single last detail about video encoding can use. Everytime I go to use the latest versions of GK there's some new filter or something that everyone argues about which is better so I have to wonder for an hour whether to change or not. Everytime I install a new version, there's some new issue I have to search the forums about for an hour to find a solution for. It's now gotten to the stage where I can't rip any DVD's with it at all unless they're brand new or absolutely perfect. (this new pain in the ass "access violation crash" issue). Why couldn't you just leave 0.27 as it was with XVID support added and maybe a couple more de-interlace filters. It was a rock steady hassle free program. Now I spend more time trying to get GK working than I do actually using it and I tell you now, I'm no newbie. I'm sick and tired of too many options and too many issues. Like the VW Beetle KEEP IT SIMPLE! Credit where it's due to len0x. AutoGK is the best thing to come out since 0.27. It's the one last thing that may save GK's popularity. Fire away....I've been silent here for long enough.

DarkNite · 9th January 2004, 22:48

I'm glad to hear that you like AutoGK.

As for the rest of your post - I don't believe that all the options/features available in GordionKnot would be there if they weren't requested by a large enough number of users, and/or frequently.

We're on complete opposites of the poles here. If I were forced to use AutoGK I might die of dehydration from the projectile vomiting that would occur from automated utility use because it can't be relied upon to deliver the best quality in all situations, and you would probably have a cardiac arrest or massive stroke if you tried to encode an entire series using YATTA to get the "perfect" IVTC, and running a series of quality tests to determine the best filterchain for your given source because it would take far more time/effort than you're accustomed to.

I've always felt GK was a great median. Let's just leave it at that, and appreciate it for what it is - a great piece of work in progress that still has a lot less bugs than most M$ beta bloatware.

colordog · 9th January 2004, 23:55

@DarkNite

You bring up a good point there, about options and features being requested by enough users. TravLouJack says "I've been waiting for it to come out with a VOB chapter like batch feature", and as this was his first post, it's higly likely that he has not stated this desire before to the developers. As I'm fairly sure that len0x is not adept at reading minds from afar, it's not surprising that his wanted features aren't incorporated into GKnot. This is a very interesting issue, from a sociology type perspective - this phenomenon of people 1) using free software who 2) want stuff done to it but 3) don't ask for it and 4) get angry as a result. I find it absolutely amazing that people can be angry in such a situation. "Your free thing doesn't do what I want, and I didn't tell you want I want, so it sucks!" Oh boy. It's bad enough with just the "Your free thing doesn't do what I want, it sucks" part. Not just them saying, "It's not the right product for me", but rather, "It's a pain in the ass".

Also, it's not like he couldn't download his own decrypter and then use GKnot to continue to encode his stuff. Maybe he's not aware that he's not forced to use the ones that come bundled with it?

Although, given the techinical problems that he seems to be having with it, it could be part of an issue dealing from the user's computer. (It sounds much more like a hardware issue if a DVD-ROM can only read new or non-scratched discs. This is common.) I too, have encoded thousands of items with GKnot, but have not suffered from any of the issues he talks about.

I like the fact that GKnot keeps itself updated with the latest filters and such - there's plenty of encoding programs out there with stagnant DLLs and filters for people who don't ever want to learn or adapt to anything new.

@TravLouJak

The video encoding field is evolving at a very, very rapid rate. Developers are constantly racing into order to incorporate better encoding, muxing, and algorithms to get higher quality from less bitspace. If GKnot were not to incorporate the new AviSynth, or VDubMod, or deinterlacer, it would rapidly fall behind other encoders, and no one would continue to use it. For instance, if it didn't incorporate XviD (but that one's okay with you), or YV2 colorspace, or corrected deinterlacers. I think you'll be hardpressed to find an evolving video encoding program that doesn't update parts of its components often. With the codecs and frameservers constantly changing - how can they not?

Since it takes you an hour to use the search button to find details about the latest changes to the release, you might want to consider not upgrading to newer versions of GKnot - go back to a version that you like.

I find it amusing that you complain about the upgrades to GKnot, when in fact in the recent past, AutoGK has been updated more often. Is there a point where putting in newer filters in AutoGK stops becoming ok? Maybe you could let len0x know ahead of time in order to avoid confusion like this.

TravLouJak · 10th January 2004, 00:23

I've never felt I deserved to be able to 'complain' about a free program. Especially one developed by people who's knowledge base is far superior to my own. However, rather than remaining a silent member, I have finally felt that any feedback would be better than no feedback.

This is the exact current problem I have:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...cess+violation

I have reverted back to GK 0.27 It rips the same 7 DVD's I can't rip with 0.28.7 without error.

I'm not convinced this is a hardware or decrypter problem.

The upgrades to AutoGK have enhanced it, but not complicated it any way.

Over time GK has also gotten better, but it's too complicated now to keep using the latest versions without too much time invested in tracking down causes to software or installation errors.

JensG. · 10th January 2004, 19:26

*LOL*
If your old Gordian Knot was good enough to rip 1000 DVDs, then why did you you upgrade at all?

9th January 2004, 18:13	#1 \| Link
TravLouJak Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7	Gordian Knot is a pain in the ASS. 2 years ago Gordian Knot was my favourite program. I have ripped over 1000 music videos from DVD with it. I've been waiting for it to come out with a VOB chapter like batch feature, because ripping 20 chapters seperatley in the case of music video's is tiresome and repetitive. I still used GK though cause it was the best. WAS. I commend you guys for your amazing efforts. However, this program is becoming something only nutter video encoders who know every single last detail about video encoding can use. Everytime I go to use the latest versions of GK there's some new filter or something that everyone argues about which is better so I have to wonder for an hour whether to change or not. Everytime I install a new version, there's some new issue I have to search the forums about for an hour to find a solution for. It's now gotten to the stage where I can't rip any DVD's with it at all unless they're brand new or absolutely perfect. (this new pain in the ass "access violation crash" issue). Why couldn't you just leave 0.27 as it was with XVID support added and maybe a couple more de-interlace filters. It was a rock steady hassle free program. Now I spend more time trying to get GK working than I do actually using it and I tell you now, I'm no newbie. I'm sick and tired of too many options and too many issues. Like the VW Beetle KEEP IT SIMPLE! Credit where it's due to len0x. AutoGK is the best thing to come out since 0.27. It's the one last thing that may save GK's popularity. Fire away....I've been silent here for long enough.

9th January 2004, 22:48	#2 \| Link
DarkNite Almost Silent Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Purgatory Posts: 273	Umm... I'm glad to hear that you like AutoGK. As for the rest of your post - I don't believe that all the options/features available in GordionKnot would be there if they weren't requested by a large enough number of users, and/or frequently. We're on complete opposites of the poles here. If I were forced to use AutoGK I might die of dehydration from the projectile vomiting that would occur from automated utility use because it can't be relied upon to deliver the best quality in all situations, and you would probably have a cardiac arrest or massive stroke if you tried to encode an entire series using YATTA to get the "perfect" IVTC, and running a series of quality tests to determine the best filterchain for your given source because it would take far more time/effort than you're accustomed to. I've always felt GK was a great median. Let's just leave it at that, and appreciate it for what it is - a great piece of work in progress that still has a lot less bugs than most M$ beta bloatware. __________________ Rethinking the "Why?" chromosome.

10th January 2004, 00:23	#4 \| Link
TravLouJak Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7	I've never felt I deserved to be able to 'complain' about a free program. Especially one developed by people who's knowledge base is far superior to my own. However, rather than remaining a silent member, I have finally felt that any feedback would be better than no feedback. This is the exact current problem I have: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...cess+violation I have reverted back to GK 0.27 It rips the same 7 DVD's I can't rip with 0.28.7 without error. I'm not convinced this is a hardware or decrypter problem. The upgrades to AutoGK have enhanced it, but not complicated it any way. Over time GK has also gotten better, but it's too complicated now to keep using the latest versions without too much time invested in tracking down causes to software or installation errors. __________________ "Aggression is more useful than dis pear" Last edited by TravLouJak; 10th January 2004 at 00:28.

9th January 2004, 23:55	#3 \| Link
colordog Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 219	@DarkNite You bring up a good point there, about options and features being requested by enough users. TravLouJack says "I've been waiting for it to come out with a VOB chapter like batch feature", and as this was his first post, it's higly likely that he has not stated this desire before to the developers. As I'm fairly sure that len0x is not adept at reading minds from afar, it's not surprising that his wanted features aren't incorporated into GKnot. This is a very interesting issue, from a sociology type perspective - this phenomenon of people 1) using free software who 2) want stuff done to it but 3) don't ask for it and 4) get angry as a result. I find it absolutely amazing that people can be angry in such a situation. "Your free thing doesn't do what I want, and I didn't tell you want I want, so it sucks!" Oh boy. It's bad enough with just the "Your free thing doesn't do what I want, it sucks" part. Not just them saying, "It's not the right product for me", but rather, "It's a pain in the ass". Also, it's not like he couldn't download his own decrypter and then use GKnot to continue to encode his stuff. Maybe he's not aware that he's not forced to use the ones that come bundled with it? Although, given the techinical problems that he seems to be having with it, it could be part of an issue dealing from the user's computer. (It sounds much more like a hardware issue if a DVD-ROM can only read new or non-scratched discs. This is common.) I too, have encoded thousands of items with GKnot, but have not suffered from any of the issues he talks about. I like the fact that GKnot keeps itself updated with the latest filters and such - there's plenty of encoding programs out there with stagnant DLLs and filters for people who don't ever want to learn or adapt to anything new. @TravLouJak The video encoding field is evolving at a very, very rapid rate. Developers are constantly racing into order to incorporate better encoding, muxing, and algorithms to get higher quality from less bitspace. If GKnot were not to incorporate the new AviSynth, or VDubMod, or deinterlacer, it would rapidly fall behind other encoders, and no one would continue to use it. For instance, if it didn't incorporate XviD (but that one's okay with you), or YV2 colorspace, or corrected deinterlacers. I think you'll be hardpressed to find an evolving video encoding program that doesn't update parts of its components often. With the codecs and frameservers constantly changing - how can they not? Since it takes you an hour to use the search button to find details about the latest changes to the release, you might want to consider not upgrading to newer versions of GKnot - go back to a version that you like. I find it amusing that you complain about the upgrades to GKnot, when in fact in the recent past, AutoGK has been updated more often. Is there a point where putting in newer filters in AutoGK stops becoming ok? Maybe you could let len0x know ahead of time in order to avoid confusion like this.

10th January 2004, 19:26	#5 \| Link
JensG. Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 83	LOL If your old Gordian Knot was good enough to rip 1000 DVDs, then why did you you upgrade at all?