madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

You may already guessed it, but I'm extremely sad that I can't use NNEDI3 anymore, since I watch videos on my gaming system which profits by new drivers.
I'm really missing madshi's deband filter in MPDN...

Didn't you say 353.49 Hotfix drivers work fine?

I see many people complaining about this D3D9 OpenCL interop thing, but I only see myself and 2 other people complaining to NVidia. Maybe they would listen if more people submitted this issue to them via their "Submit Bug" official Feedback/Support system instead of hoping they would read their reply on GeForce forums?

If there is enough demand, NVidia will budge!

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

Didn't you say 353.49 Hotfix drivers work fine?

I also said I want newest drivers for games.
In fall, there'll be lots of new games which profit by new drivers.

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

If there is enough demand, NVidia will budge!

You don't know Nvidia, it seems.

And it will never be "enough" people complaining, as madVR is a non-commercial 1 man project and probably even most of its users are hardly aware of NNEDI3 and how it looks different to other algorithms.

They may change it back, since it's on their bugtracker and madVR got popular for HTPC users, but I'd never bet on that.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by madshi

I hope AMD releases next generation GPUs with HEVC DXVA, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 soon.

AMD just finished releasing a new GPU series, and it has none of these features, so good luck waiting for that.

[aufkrawall]

Fiji has HEVC 10 bit DXVA and next year's Arctic Island GPUs will have all the other features as well (up to 100% certain).

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Fiji has HEVC 10 bit DXVA

It does not, only 8-bit, which is unfortunately not very useful for commercial 4K content like UHD Blu-ray (and hopefully streamed 4K as well, as BT.2020 needs 10-bit to be good).
Not that 10-bit would be that ideal on AMD, as 10-bit isn't supported through DXVA-Native, but only Copy-Back, and AMD is notoriously bad at Copy-Back, especially considering you would want all the bandwidth to remain "free" for OpenCL-CopyBack with NNEDI3.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

It does not, only 8-bit, which is unfortunately not very useful for commercial 4K content like UHD Blu-ray (and hopefully streamed 4K as well, as BT.2020 needs 10-bit to be good).
Not that 10-bit would be that ideal on AMD, as 10-bit isn't supported through DXVA-Native, but only Copy-Back, and AMD is notoriously bad at Copy-Back, especially considering you would want all the bandwidth to remain "free" for OpenCL-CopyBack with NNEDI3.

shouldn't that be UHD anyway?

[ashlar42]

Well... I was planning anyway to wait a while before upgrading to Windows 10, one reason more...

I have a generic (and probably stupid) questione regarding scaling. With 4k... scaling 1080p to 4k, why shouldn't Nearest Neighbour suffice? It's exactly double the size both horizontally and vertically. That way one should see the exact same pictures with the exact same size of a 1080p pixel (a 2x2 pixels matrix). Otherwise we try to add detail that is not in the original image... am I wrong?

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

It does not, only 8-bit, which is unfortunately not very useful for commercial 4K content like UHD Blu-ray (and hopefully streamed 4K as well, as BT.2020 needs 10-bit to be good).
Not that 10-bit would be that ideal on AMD, as 10-bit isn't supported through DXVA-Native, but only Copy-Back, and AMD is notoriously bad at Copy-Back, especially considering you would want all the bandwidth to remain "free" for OpenCL-CopyBack with NNEDI3.

Ah, yes, you're right:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/t...ury-x-review/8
Another AMD fail *facepalm*. Well, still AI should have it, since I suspect Fiji is just a GCN HBM showcase.

But interesting regarding copyback.
I suppose many people have never been able to try NNEDI3 because the AMD driver sabotaged copyback performance (at least this was the case for me). OpenCL for realtime video-applications has totally failed imho. I really hope it won't be christmas until we have non-OpenCL NNEDI3 in madVR.

[huhn]

Nearest Neighbour for x2 scaling is a viable choice.

in the end "all" source are scaled before they are pressed on a disc/encoded so scaling them with something other than Nearest Neighbour for x2 can be closer to the original.

no scaler is adding details they most of the time remove aliasing.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by huhn

Nearest Neighbour for x2 scaling is a viable choice.

I disagree, 720p looks terrifying with nn on WQHD.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Ah, yes, you're right:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/t...ury-x-review/8
Another AMD fail *facepalm*. Well, still AI should have it, since I suspect Fiji is just a GCN HBM showcase.

But interesting regarding copyback.
I suppose many people have never been able to try NNEDI3 because the AMD driver sabotaged copyback performance (at least this was the case for me). OpenCL for realtime video-applications has totally failed imho. I really hope it won't be christmas until we have non-OpenCL NNEDI3 in madVR.

i can use nnedi3 with my old 6770 without problem so not sure what your problem is.

and the r9 270x is the most recommended card for madVR thanks to this very good nnedi3 performance.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I disagree, 720p looks terrifying with nn on WQHD.

the same as a 720p TV.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by ashlar42

I have a generic (and probably stupid) questione regarding scaling. With 4k... scaling 1080p to 4k, why shouldn't Nearest Neighbour suffice? It's exactly double the size both horizontally and vertically. That way one should see the exact same pictures with the exact same size of a 1080p pixel (a 2x2 pixels matrix). Otherwise we try to add detail that is not in the original image... am I wrong?

That results in terrible aliasing. Basically you are wasting the entire potential of a 4K screen, might as well buy a 1080p screen then.

Good scaling algorithms will provide a much better image.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by huhn

i can use nnedi3 with my old 6770 without problem so not sure what your problem is.

It's probably WQHD, I wouldn't bet the AMD copyback performance is scaling nicely with increasing frame size. Or only newer GPUs are affected by a certain bug etc.
And to what resolution would you scale with NNEDI3 on a 6770? It's an extremely slow GPU, judging from today.

Originally Posted by huhn

and the r9 270x is the most recommended card for madVR thanks to this very good nnedi3 performance.

When scaling to 1080p, the copyback performance is probably less of a problem than the net computing power, where Pitcairn XT is not bad. It's roughly the PS4 GPU.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

It's probably WQHD, I wouldn't bet the AMD copyback performance is scaling nicely with increasing frame size. Or only newer GPUs are affected by a certain bug etc.
And to what resolution would you scale with NNEDI3 on a 6770? It's an extremely slow GPU, judging from today.


When scaling to 1080p, the copyback performance is probably less of a problem than the net computing power, where Pitcairn XT is not bad. It's roughly the PS4 GPU.

1080p like 90%+ of all people. low CR QHD IPS it not for everyone.

[noee]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I suppose many people have never been able to try NNEDI3 because the AMD driver sabotaged copyback performance (at least this was the case for me). OpenCL for realtime video-applications has totally failed imho. I really hope it won't be christmas until we have non-OpenCL NNEDI3 in madVR.

Granted, my needs are somewhat trivial, but I use NNEDI3/32n on all my transcoded SD 24p sources on a shitty old HD6570 with some minor overclock and other than an occasional dropped frame, seems to work fine, gpu load up around 93%.

If I add h/w deint or smoothmotion (60Hz) or ED and then it's a slideshow.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by huhn

1080p like 90%+ of all people. low CR QHD IPS it not for everyone.

I always see 4k TVs in the brochures...

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

That results in terrible aliasing. Basically you are wasting the entire potential of a 4K screen, might as well buy a 1080p screen then.

Good scaling algorithms will provide a much better image.

Seen a lot of 4K TV's with almost NNEDI3 style upscaling. Just have the media player set to 1920 x 1080 on playback and enjoy, no PC upscaling required. Better off doing it with one of MADVR's scalers I'd say though.

[aufkrawall]

Have you tested really difficult pictures with it?
It's easy to look just crispy, especially when viewing from larger distance. Also four times higher pixel density helps to hide a lot of artifacts.

Btw: You can use madVR with DVB Viewer beta, and european TV is 720p50. I really doubt you want to use copyback for NNEDI3 -> WQHD (720p x 2) and DXVA2 at the same time, if even just NNEDI3 CB for itself works. It's not 2012 anymore. NNEDI3 was integrated early enough, but now it got borked at an already inconvenient time.

[alx000]

Originally Posted by XRyche

I also notice when playing 1080p (my display is 1080p) there is no wait times at all. This is going from Windowed player to FS and/or FSE. So I guess the excessive wait times are only when upscaling.

any news?

having the same problem, no image on FSE 1080p ... windowed works fine...

EDIT: just marked to use Direct3D 11 for presentation, and it solved the problem.