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12th May 2015, 19:28 | #29781 | Link | ||
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Driver version is different on Windows 10, it 10.18.15.4124. It doesn't matter if I use 10bit, 8bit or usual 7bit output, MPC-HC or MPC-BE, x86 or x64. ************ Upgrading from Win 8.1 to Win 10 was not a good idea. It created some system instability (high CPU usage). I had to refomat so I decided to try with Windows 7. Problem remains.
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Intel Pentium G3220, Asus H81M-K, 4GB DDR3@1600MHz (1333MHz working), LG W1934S, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 Last edited by detmek; 12th May 2015 at 21:34. |
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12th May 2015, 20:40 | #29782 | Link |
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Have created a tracker entry regarding the NV NNEDI3 quadrupling issue.
---------------- Regarding chroma scaling: I think it was a good idea to remove the NNEDI3 chroma doubling options since they were pretty much redundant because of NNEDI3 chroma scaling and luma doubling/quadrupling options. I think no one will miss it. However, in the first post of this thread, it says: "- no shortcuts, highest quality has priority over anything else" which is not true anymore with that C-R chroma "shortcut". I could probably search for days and wouldn't find a (good) example for doing chroma scaling completely via Jinc3. But who knows, I already stumbled over nasty artifacts with NNEDI3 chroma scaling. If it didn't matter how chroma is scaled, you could remove everything instead of bilinear and C-R for it. It's not impossible that pure Jinc3 scaling can look better than C-R, while the other way round is highly unlikely. I think MPDN has a nice compromise with those quality templates. I really want to have a maximum quality mode without any shortcuts, like promised in the first post. It's also about the impression of not educating or teaching users what is good for them and what is not. When using NNEDI3 image doubling and quadrupling with each 64 neurons, I really don't care if rendering is 1-2% slower due to pure Jinc3 chroma scaling. It doesn't matter. |
12th May 2015, 21:23 | #29783 | Link | |
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Last edited by JPulowski; 12th May 2015 at 21:27. |
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12th May 2015, 21:55 | #29784 | Link | |
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System specs: Sager NP9150 SE with i7-3630QM 2.40GHz, 16 GB RAM, 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, NVidia GTX 680M/Intel 4000 HD optimus dual GPU system. Video viewed on LG notebook screen and LG 3D passive TV. |
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12th May 2015, 22:01 | #29785 | Link | |
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12th May 2015, 22:06 | #29786 | Link | |
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12th May 2015, 22:23 | #29788 | Link |
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Its possible its gamma as opposed to color itself that may be shifting, so I'll look in my Nvidia gamma settings to see if that is indeed what is happening. I haven't seem any increased banding in my testing as of yet...
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System specs: Sager NP9150 SE with i7-3630QM 2.40GHz, 16 GB RAM, 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, NVidia GTX 680M/Intel 4000 HD optimus dual GPU system. Video viewed on LG notebook screen and LG 3D passive TV. |
12th May 2015, 22:28 | #29789 | Link | |||||||
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If it would be very easy for you, maybe you could create a short digicam video, showing the problem you're seeing? But don't bother if it would be hard for you to do. Quote:
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The first page says "highest quality has priority over anything else", and that is still my goal. However, the point here is that I don't think that there's a visible difference between Catmull-Rom and Jinc for chroma doubling. The situation is different for chroma upscaling. There the difference is much bigger than for chroma doubling. You won't get highest quality by using the most expensive algorithm for every part of the processing pipeline. You will get highest quality by spending your GPU for algorithms which make a difference. Instead of worrying about chroma doubling, have a look at FineSharp and SuperRes. Look, I could have hidden what I'm doing. I could just have said nothing and hidden the Catmull-Rom information from the OSD. Nobody would ever have known. There are many such things hidden in various places. Not only in madVR, but also in MPDN. E.g. NEDI falls back to Lanczos *without* AR. Or SuperRes for chroma upsampling uses bilinear upscaling to upscale the error. These are fixed parts of the algorithms and no global setting in MPDN or madVR influences that. I guess you might call this "shortcut", but I think it only qualifies as a shortcut in a negative way if it ends up being visible. If I used the most expensive algorithms everywhere, madVR would be 5 times slower than it is now, and you wouldn't see the tiniest difference in quality. It's all about spending the GPU power wisely, so you have some left for algorithms which do make a visible difference. But I'm willing to bow to the majority. What does everybody else say? Should I "allow" Jinc3 to be used for chroma doubling? Instead of blocking it and using Catmull-Rom instead? Quote:
BTW, I double checked and my version of LumaSharpen is identical to that from version 1.5.0, except that my code also has an optional experimental limiter in it. And I'm using the "best" pattern which is available in either 1.4.1 or 1.5.0, which is pattern 3. ------- I've done some digging and hacking and raping Direct3D, I think I have the refresh rate problems sorted out. Give this build a try: http://madshi.net/madVR885refreshRateFix.zip Should work for D3D9 and D3D11 now, and also for 64bit. Once again, I've spent a lot of time to fix Microsoft's stupidity. They actually *intentionally* use 59.940Hz (23.976Hz) even if you ask for 60.000Hz (24.000Hz). There's no way to convince Direct3D to use 60.000 (24.000), except by going behind their back and twisting and binding their fingers, like I've done. I wonder if there's any other software besides madVR which can switch FSE mode to 24.000/60.000? I kinda doubt it... |
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12th May 2015, 23:00 | #29791 | Link | |
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I'm fine with CR. Not sure if its much faster than, say, Lanc3AR though. |
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12th May 2015, 23:01 | #29792 | Link |
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I think you should use your best judgment on such matters. But I appreciate that you let us know what you are doing so that so that in some of these cases we can compare the different algorithms used on different content. I think that's important for educating ourselves on the real world value of what we're using.
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12th May 2015, 23:13 | #29793 | Link | |
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leave it as it is i wouldn't waste power on such a thing. |
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12th May 2015, 23:18 | #29794 | Link | |
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FWIW, NNEDI3 is still supported for chroma upsampling, just not for chroma doubling. Could you test that pixel art games for quality differences between 1) v0.87.21 NNEDI3 chroma doubling 2) v0.87.21 Jinc3 AR chroma doubling 3) Catmull-Rom AR chroma doubling? |
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12th May 2015, 23:36 | #29795 | Link | |
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so i'm talking about the even more demanding setting like the usually total over kill called NNEDI3 chroma doubling. it's a 320x200 pixel art game stored in RGB not a real source. |
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12th May 2015, 23:38 | #29797 | Link | ||||
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Btw: How'd I use chroma doubling with 0.87? Testing with 4:2:2 content? If yes, this is way too much effort. Quote:
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However, I'd really like to have a deblocking filter because sharpening can make the blocking way too obtrusive. I know this may seem like a fuss about nothing, but I still think this optimization can make much sense for slow GPUs, but not for fast ones. Maxwell was a huge boost for HTPC and 16nm GPUs are probably not very far either. |
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12th May 2015, 23:40 | #29798 | Link | |
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Does the test build fix the refresh rate problem for you? I doubt that it has to do with MP4 files. |
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12th May 2015, 23:43 | #29800 | Link |
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madshi, this is a question, not specifically related to the newer versions of madVR so absolutely no priority in a reply to this (FYI using the latest 0.88.5 version)
I just got a GTX 980 and have it overclocked as much as I can push it, so I have been experimenting with NNEDI 32 neurons for image doubling / quadrupling. Quadrupling seems to be working fine at 32 neurons on very low resolution files. I'm now testing of a movie which is 1280 x 720, so to get to 1920 x 1080 I can see the following is being used in Ctrl-J stats chroma > Jinc3 AR luma > Nnedi32 < Catmull-Rom AR chroma > Catmull-Rom AR This seems to be alot more demanding than the quadrupling of the lower resolution files, which is fine, so in gpu-z I can see GPU Load hitting ~90% but my question is. I don't see any dropped frames, delayed frames or presentation glitches, however the queues are as follows decoder queue 15-16 / 16 upload queue 7-8 / 8 render queue 1-2 / 8 present queue 0-2 / 8 My question is, although I know my gpu is literally at its absolute limits, how come some of the queues seem full, while others are nearly empty all the time, yet my gpu isn't under enough pressure to drop frames. Absolutely very low priority question, just thought it was worth mentioning as I'm not sure if the render and present queues not being full in this scenario may be something madVR is controlling and could potentially be improved to have them more full seeing as frames aren't being dropped. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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