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Old 27th October 2012, 17:37   #15101  |  Link
leeperry
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Having more thoughts about it, there's also LUT Manager that can load and save CLUT data, but I'm cool with Argyll's CLUT being applied in 8bit atm

I guess I could merge the .cal file inside the yRGB 3DLUT using that .ti3 parser, but phewwwww PQ already kills as is and that'd need a truckload of double-checking in order to ensure that everything is processed as it should and I got better things to do atm. I need the CLUT to be applied on the windows desktop when mVR is not using it inside the 3DLUT so that'd make things even more complicated I guess..

Last edited by leeperry; 27th October 2012 at 17:45.
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Old 27th October 2012, 19:45   #15102  |  Link
dansrfe
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Why is there more than one gamma ramp mechanism that can be used by the graphics card? The ability to apply profiles on top of each other makes no sense whatsoever, in any case.

Last edited by dansrfe; 27th October 2012 at 19:48.
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Old 27th October 2012, 19:48   #15103  |  Link
leeperry
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well, dispwin.exe(from Argyll) uses the RAMDAC hardware CLUT AFAIK, and it can do 10bit over VGA. The current "disable gamma ramps" option in mVR doesn't wipe it from my limited testing.
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Old 27th October 2012, 19:54   #15104  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
well, dispwin.exe(from Argyll) uses the RAMDAC hardware CLUT AFAIK, and it can do 10bit over VGA. The current "disable gamma ramps" option in mVR doesn't wipe it from my limited testing.
So then the disable gamma ramp setting only disable surface level CLUT application mechanisms.

3DLUT is applied to the RAMDAC during madVR playback I believe.

Which beings us back to the question: If someone has calibrated their monitor with a 3DLUT and wants it applied to their desktop in addition to madVR, what should they do?
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Old 27th October 2012, 20:34   #15105  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
well, dispwin.exe(from Argyll) uses the RAMDAC hardware CLUT AFAIK
Only programs with special low-level system drivers like Rivatuner can modify the RAMDAC directly, and there really is no good reason to do this unless you have an ancient GPU with doesn't support CLUT adjustments normally. argyllcms dispwin and other lut loaders uses the standard Windows api for loading the CLUT onto the GPU. Maybe the method madVR uses for resetting the CLUT just doesn't work on WinXP?

Edit: It appears that you need to restart madVR before any change to the "disable GPU gamma ramps" option becomes effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Which beings us back to the question: If someone has calibrated their monitor with a 3DLUT and wants it applied to their desktop in addition to madVR, what should they do?
yCMS 3DLUTs cannot be used outside of madVR, and other applications which choose to support the 3DLUT format.

On the desktop, you would use a calibrated gamma ramp from an ICC profile, which won't offer gamut correction outside ICC color manged applications.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 28th October 2012 at 01:57.
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Old 27th October 2012, 20:50   #15106  |  Link
dansrfe
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So before the "disable gamma ramps" option existed in madVR what was going on if someone had an ICC profile installed via Windows 7 and a 3DLUT loaded into yCMS via madVR?
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Old 27th October 2012, 21:12   #15107  |  Link
baii
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I have a question regarding which will give better PQ.
set up -i7 sandy 2670qm, m8900 (sort of a desktop 6850m)
content - 1080i -> 2560*1440p
Situation is either
1.Anything +AR but Jinc3(even w.o AR) in chroma/upscale + GPU deinterlacing(either auto or all the way forced vector adaptive)
2.Any algorithum with AR + yadif/software deinterlacing

So the question really is : do gpu deinterlacing worth dropping jinc3?
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Old 27th October 2012, 22:11   #15108  |  Link
mzso
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Chroma is upscaled, because it's stored at half-resolution in YV12.
I said image upscaling, I didn't change chroma. That's why it's weird.
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Old 27th October 2012, 23:23   #15109  |  Link
TheElix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
[code]madVR v0.84.3

* added media player screenshot functionality (IBasicVideo::GetCurrentImage)
I can't believe it!!! Thank you!
Edited: Er... How does it work?

Last edited by TheElix; 27th October 2012 at 23:28.
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Old 27th October 2012, 23:26   #15110  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
So before the "disable gamma ramps" option existed in madVR what was going on if someone had an ICC profile installed via Windows 7 and a 3DLUT loaded into yCMS via madVR?
You would take measurements for yCMS 3DLUT after you've created and loaded the calibrated gamma ramp from an ICC profile. Alternatively, you could re-use measurements taken during ICC profiling.

The 3DLUT would be used for performing gamut corrections, and optionally fine-tuning the whitepoint and gamma via shaders.
The GPU gamma ramp would be applied on top as the blunt of the gamma and whitepoint correction needed for your display.
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Old 28th October 2012, 01:26   #15111  |  Link
Toku
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I noticed that in newer versions of MPC-HC, the seek bar has little black bars which show where each chapter begins/ends. Having these in the seek bar is really useful when playing a video with multiple sections (Advert breaks/Opening/Ending etc) Do you think you could add a feature like this into the Seekbar for Fullscreen exclusive mode?
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Old 28th October 2012, 03:04   #15112  |  Link
6233638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElix View Post
I can't believe it!!! Thank you!
Edited: Er... How does it work?
In MPC-HC, there is a "Save Image" command (default: Alt + I) and a "Save Image (Auto)" command (default: F5)

You should save at least one image with the Alt + I command to set the destination folder and image type. (it defaults to a low quality JPG, I set it to PNG) and after that, hitting F5 should save to that directory with the type of image you selected.

Note: this saves an unscaled screenshot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
As far as I know you don't need more than 10000:1. At any moment the human eye can't perceive more. The fact that the eye can adapt to low light conditions is irrelevant because it takes like a half hour.
The human eye has a limited range of contrast it can see simultaneously - about 100:1, but that shifts up and down in brightness constantly over a dynamic range of about 1,000,000:1. (similar to how exposure works on a camera if you are familiar with that)

So if you are showing a bright image on a display, black level almost doesn't matter, because it is below the threshold of what your eye can see simultaneously. (your eye tends to "expose" based on the brightest object)

If you are watching a dark film in a dark room, then a display with 10,000:1 contrast (5,000:1 once calibrated) is nowhere near enough to put black level below the threshold of what your eye can detect.

You need in excess of 100,000:1 contrast at calibrated levels (100cd/mē white) before the screen stops "glowing" when displaying black. The eye is very good at detecting the contrast between a dark screen, and the total darkness of the room.
Samsung announced that their OLED has 150,000:1 at 600cd/mē peak white, which puts it at only 25,000:1 once calibrated (assuming their numbers are accurate) because OLED is like Plasma where lowering peak brightness has no impact on black level unlike LCD. (with LCD, lowering the backlight lowers both peak brightness and black level)

With projectors, the reference level is only 48cd/mē which means they actually require even higher contrast ratios for the same black level perception. (I actually find 48 a lot more comfortable on a flat panel in a dark room as well)

This is why it's disappointing that even though JVC have projectors with a 130,000:1 native contrast ratio, they still refuse to implement a dynamic iris. I have not seen the very latest X95 projector, but their previous 90,000:1 CR projectors were still not enough to stop black "glowing" in a dark room. If they implemented a dynamic iris in addition to having such a high native contrast ratio, I bet it would be able to push black level below the limit of human perception in all but the darkest scenes.

Hopefully this will change once laser/LED sources are used in HT projectors, as you can adjust the brightness far better than a dynamic iris allows. (though I feel that Sony already have a very good iris implementation that is transparent in most cases now)
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Old 28th October 2012, 03:25   #15113  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Note: this saves an unscaled screenshot.
Which at times may not be useful as what you may wish to capture is the scaling.

I just set up a shortcut key for automatic FSE mode mode disable/enable & or the 10 seconds options use them when required and hit Print screen.
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Old 28th October 2012, 06:29   #15114  |  Link
mindbomb
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I think he is having trouble cause he is using the stable build of mpc hc, which doesnt allow you to take screenshots with madvr.

you have to use a nightly.
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Old 28th October 2012, 07:44   #15115  |  Link
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Hi guys, just a little OT. I want to know if my 'chain' is configured the correct way so the colors and blacks&whites are displayed correct:


MY SOURCE (HTPC) settings:
- NVIDIA graphics card with latest driver and I use the HDMI output of my card.

- Media Player Classic with madVR as output renderer with output setting PC Levels (0-255).

- using LAV video decoder with all the 'Output Formats' checked and 'RGB Output Levels' set to 'Untouched (as input)'.

- I m also using ffdshow Raw Video Decoder: Raw Video to 'All Supported' and in the Output settings only checked the box 'YV12'.

MY DISPLAY DEVICE (JVC RS55 projector) settings:
- Color Profile
The manual of my projector says I have to choose a profile here that suits the input source. A have a few settings I can choose here (I will quote the manual). Which is the correct one to choose?? (looking at the content I m watching*) *I think it is also important to mention the content I m running. I m running only a few different types of content. Full Blu-Ray movies (BDMV structure folder or .m2ts files) and .mov trailers from HDtrailers.net
1. Standard
This is a HDTV profile with an especially rich representation of the film-specific colors
2. Cinema1
This is a profile that resembles the color space of the DCI standard
3. Cinema2
This is a profile that resembles the color space of HDTV


- HDMI Color Space Input
I can choose 'Y Pb/Cb', 'Pr/Cr' or 'RGB' here. I assume I have to choose RBG?

- HDMI dynamic range Input
I can choose 'Standard (16-235)', 'Enhanced (0-255)' or 'Super White' here. I think I have to use 'Enhanced (0-255)' but what s the 'Super White' option for? (I quote the manual about the explanation of the Super White option: ''It is set if the dynamic range of the input video scale level is 16-255. Please set the output to video equipment compatible with Super White for Super White-enabled DVD / BR etc.''



Thanks for all input!

Last edited by THX-UltraII; 28th October 2012 at 07:47.
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Old 28th October 2012, 08:33   #15116  |  Link
TheElix
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Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
I think he is having trouble cause he is using the stable build of mpc hc, which doesnt allow you to take screenshots with madvr.

you have to use a nightly.
Thanks! This was most useful.
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Old 28th October 2012, 11:42   #15117  |  Link
vlatko27
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Hi all, I followed this guide to the letter. I think I got everything working properly.

My plasma(Panasonic G10) is hooked to the GTX660 via HDMI cable. The GPU is outputting 0-255 to the TV and madVR is set to 16-235(which is the only colorspace my TV supports).

Most movies play perfectly fine, however some files require me to change the colorspace to 0-255(even though my TV doesn't support it) in madVR, otherwise the picture is too bright, washed out...

Here's a clip of one of those video files. I'm just curious as to why this happens with some files.
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Old 28th October 2012, 13:01   #15118  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko27 View Post
Hi all, I followed this guide to the letter. I think I got everything working properly.

My plasma(Panasonic G10) is hooked to the GTX660 via HDMI cable. The GPU is outputting 0-255 to the TV and madVR is set to 16-235(which is the only colorspace my TV supports).

Most movies play perfectly fine, however some files require me to change the colorspace to 0-255(even though my TV doesn't support it) in madVR, otherwise the picture is too bright, washed out...

Here's a clip of one of those video files. I'm just curious as to why this happens with some files.
I don't see anything wrong with sample you provided. Maybe if you stop using shitty guides, things will improve. Especially this recommendation looks pretty scary to me.
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Old 28th October 2012, 13:12   #15119  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko27 View Post

Most movies play perfectly fine, however some files require me to change the colorspace to 0-255(even though my TV doesn't support it) in madVR, otherwise the picture is too bright, washed out...

Here's a clip of one of those video files. I'm just curious as to why this happens with some files.
Are the problematic files in SD resolution by any chance?
If so, try going into Nvidia control panel and change the colorspace there also.
See here for the whole story, and chech out the black level test patterns and try them out.
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Old 28th October 2012, 13:14   #15120  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
In that case I'd recommend to tell madVR that your display is not calibrated yet. You can do this by telling madVR to disable the calibration controls. Then after you've calibrated your display by using your display's setup menu, you can tell madVR that your display is already calibrated and how you calibrated it. That will allow you to change gamma curves/values through the madVR controls, without damaging your calibration. As the first step of the calibration you should make sure that GPU and madVR RGB output levels are set correctly, by checking black and white levels with a test pattern.
Thanks for your reply :-)

I finally understood why so many do not recommend using htpc as a source to calibrate.

If I choose to use ycms, is it correct understood that ycms values ​​should be taken from an already calibrated monitor .. A monitor that is calibrated using a blu-ray player?
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