madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[cyberbeing]

madVR 0.79's GPU RAM IN USE number is either inaccurate on WinXP SP3 or something is wrong with the queues. The number madVR shows is up to 3x that GPU-Z or NVIDIA Inspector shows.

12 CPU and 8 GPU queues w/ 1280x720 video
madVR reports 181/512MB
GPU-Z & NVIDIA Inspector reports 111/512MB

12 CPU and 8 GPU queues w/ 1920x1080 video
madVR reports 374/512MB
GPU-Z & NVIDIA Inspector reports 189/512MB


24 CPU and 24 GPU queues w/ 1280x720 video
madVR reports 519/512MB
GPU-Z & NVIDIA Inspector reports 228/512MB

24 CPU and 24 GPU queues w/ 1920x1080 video
madVR reports 1070/512MB
GPU-Z & NVIDIA Inspector reports 390/512MB

[6233638]

Just had a quick try of 0.79, mostly in Windowed mode, and haven't had a chance to test deinterlacing yet. (I suspect it won't have changed for me as I need it to work well at 24p)

However I have noticed two things:

1. When setting the queue sizes to their maximum, they now stay almost maxed out:

   31–32/32
   23–24/24
   22–24/24
   15–16/16

   Previously they were close to, but not reaching the maximum with the old default values, so to fill that many extra queues, it seems like performance must have gone up quite a bit.
   
2. GPU memory usage, and estimates based on it seem inaccurate. By default, it sets the queues to: 20/16/16 and reports memory usage of 709/1280MB.
   Turning that up to 32/24/24 reports 989/1280MB, when Nvidia Inspector and MSI Afterburner both report a maximum usage of 555MB.

[dansrfe]

I maxed out all the queues and I don't see any problem. GPU memory usage is 50MB below the max with all queues filled to the max with very slight fluctuations.

[Boltron]

Originally Posted by madshi

Very good tests, thanks! Please retest with v0.79, which has significantly reduced the deinterlacing GPU RAM consumption, and also a bit the progressive GPU RAM consumption.

With v0.79 I think a 512MB GPU should be good enough for madVR. However, having 1024MB will allow you to double the queue sizes, when using v0.79.

Thanks! I will however not till Saturday, I am away from home.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by mr.duck

Deinterlacing is now smooth!!

Originally Posted by Gser

AWESOME! Isn't it. Madshi is a genius.

Seriously?? Not sure why, I didn't change much in terms of deinterlacing compared to the last test build I sent you. Anyway, I'm happy to hear that!!

Originally Posted by Xaurus

PS: I really hope you have written down my request of adding a function that displays the refresh rate or the CTRL-J screen automatically only for a limited time when a video is opened (like 10 seconds). I am sometimes paranoid so I want to keep the refresh rate where it should be.

I have not, your wish falls under "minor cosmetical wishes" and I'm not writing these down at this point in time. Please ask me about this again when madVR has reached v1.0.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

anyway, that change of brightness in exclusive mode when activating deinterlacing is still there.

edit: that brightness shift seems to be related to the disable desktop composition box. when unticked, the change of brightness or colour is only very minor (probably thats normal?) but when ticked, then it really looks like a PC -> TV levels change. I'd like to be able to have that box ticked, because performance increases a little that way.

That is really weird. Does the black level change everytime you turn deinterlacing on/off via Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D? Does it help if you turn on the "Dynamic Range" option in the GPU "advanced video" options and set it to 16-235?

Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner

Hi madshi, sadly this bug is back with 0.79 final. (1)

2. A small cosmetic bug : the settings window name changes from "madVR settings" to "pure power curve" when "color & gamma" page is selected. But it never goes back to being "madVR settings" when other settings page are selected afterwards.

3. The ZP/slow paint/freeze on seek bug after madVR frequency switch is still there.

Ok, noted.

Originally Posted by pankov

with v0.79 you've managed to keep (or even improve for some) the quality and still lower the GPU Load by 3-4%. Now it's 75-76% with the same 1080i60 sample that was using 79-80% before.

Nice! I did a small improvement where with NVidia I skipped one step that is needed for ATI. That must have made the difference you're seeing. So I guess using CUDA could eventually drop it by another 2-3%.

Originally Posted by psymed

Does 0.79 lessen cpu usage by any chance?

Maybe a little bit, yes.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

I tried to make a clip, but that problem was gone then in that clip. but it still exists within the original video.

it looks like the camera or the whole picture becomes very shaky and flickering.

edit: that problem seems to be related to directvobsub. it didnt appear in the sample, because I didnt mux subs in it this time. when deactivating directvobsub, the shaking is gone.
would be nice if this interaction could be improved.

What happens if you use the MPC-HC internal subtitle renderer instead of DirectVobSub? It is a bit problematic if DirectVobSub draws subtitles on the not-yet-deinterlaced video. The same problem should appear with EVR. There's nothing I can do about it.

Originally Posted by sToN3d

Your change did indeed help a little. My CPU load is almost back to normal. It was ~6-7% before and now I'm at ~2.5-3.5%.

Nice! Maybe I can improve it further.

Originally Posted by Gser

I am curious as to how MadVR commands the use of DXVA deinterlacing. What mode does it choose, seeing as different GPU's need different flags.

madVR always uses the deinterlacing mode which is listed first. That is supposed to be the highest quality mode, according to DXVA2 rules.

Originally Posted by Gaius

I get no video picture when using LAV video, audio and splitters when using my MadVR settings or when restoring the default settings.

Also, clicking "Ok" on the MadVR properties window doesn't close the window and you have to close the entire player to get rid of the MadVR properties window.

This is on 32 bit Windows 7 with MPC-HC 1.5.3.3816 and latest stable Nvidia drivers.

I can't reproduce this problem on my PC. Can anybody else?

Originally Posted by Gser

I have a rather interesting problem with Dscaler IVTC mod. For some reason it reports to madvr that the fps is film speed and deinterlacing is turned off. I don't know if the problem is with Dscaler or MadVR, perhaps i will try the non ivtc mod version since its ivtc function never worked for me anyways.

Not sure what problem you're seeing there. The DScaler IVTC mod is supposed to do IVTC, that's what it's for. madVR knows that and so treats the DScaler IVTC mod output as 24p. That's intentional madVR behaviour and I see nothing wrong with it.

Originally Posted by Anima123

Madshi, could you please add a force deinterlace option with the Ctrl+Alt+Shift D shortcut in case the source doesn't report the interlace status correctly?

Not sure what you mean? If you press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D twice, you can force deinterlacing on. Isn't that what you want?

Originally Posted by Andy o

Thanks madshi, deinterlacing is now working at 50p for my material instead of at 25p.

Great!

Originally Posted by Andy o

The other thing I reported where 29i material with a "24p" tag in the file name would switch to 50p or 60p has also been fixed, but then deinterlacing gets turned off. The way I used to do it with CUVID was the decoder outputting 30p and then decimating with ffdshow processor/avisynth. I suppose it's not possible to decimate like this with madVR's deinterlacing, right?

Oh well, so you want 24p display mode, but you still want madVR to deinterlace? I hope you can see that this is not intuitive to madVR. You could try "24i" or "48i" instead of "24p", but then you need to turn off the option "don't deinterlace 48i" in the madVR settings.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

is it possible that it doesnt work so well when when I also use sharpening with ffdshow?

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to process video in ffdshow/aviSynth, if you want to use DXVA2 deinterlacing, because usually you should deinterlace *first* and process afterwards. Sharpening should ideally be performed after deinterlacing + upscaling.

Originally Posted by dansrfe

Also deinterlacing gives rise to noticeable jerkiness and aliasing.

More details, please? Do you see dropped or delayed frames? Or presentation glitches? Which GPU? Which OS? Which movie resolution? Which output resolution? Which display refresh rate? Which decoder? Are you just deinterlacing, or up/downscaling as well?

Originally Posted by Andy o

madshi, one other thing, would it be possible to add the option to force 29i/30i whenever I add a "29i" or "30i" to the file name, even when there's a "1080p60" in madVR options? Right now I have both 1080i29 and 1080p59, and it always switches to the latter.

It makes sense to switch to 1080i59/60. But I don't see why it makes sense to activate deinterlacing in that case?

Originally Posted by dansrfe

How does madVR deal with the refresh rate reported by the source filter or splitter and ffdshow's video decoder and then if deinterlacing is activated within ffdshow?

For example:

I play a VOB file hard-telecined/3:2 pulldown at 29.970 reported by the source filter (navigator) and ffdshow, but then I enable deinterlacing within ffdshow. Now pure deinterlacement would keep the same fps of 29.970 and I realize that but what happens if I use AviSynth internally within ffdshow and inverse telecine it using tfm().tdecimate()? How does madVR deal with that? Does ffdshow report 23.976 as the new fps? Does madVR still use the rate reported by the source filter?

As far as I know, ffdshow does *not* update the fps information when changing frame rates. This is IMHO a bug in ffdshow and there's nothing I can do about it. I can't somehow guess that ffdshow is performing IVTC or that it's adding additional frames or whatever.

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

madVR 0.79's GPU RAM IN USE number is either inaccurate on WinXP SP3 or something is wrong with the queues. The number madVR shows is up to 3x that GPU-Z or NVIDIA Inspector shows.

Originally Posted by 6233638

[*]GPU memory usage, and estimates based on it seem inaccurate. By default, it sets the queues to: 20/16/16 and reports memory usage of 709/1280MB.
Turning that up to 32/24/24 reports 989/1280MB, when Nvidia Inspector and MSI Afterburner both report a maximum usage of 555MB.[/list]

Well, madVR calculates the number of MB it allocates, but this includes both GPU RAM and PCIe RAM. I'm not sure which textures/surfaces Direct3D allocates in which RAM. I suppose GPU-Z and NVidia Inspector etc report only GPU RAM usage, while madVR counts all the RAM it uses in either GPU RAM or PCIe RAM. I'm not sure if I can improve that. Maybe I can figure out which resources are allocated where and take that into account. Not sure...

@cyberbeing, does deinterlacing work for you now? I think it didn't work for you in v0.78 due to GPU RAM problems? Which queue sizes are working for you now?

Originally Posted by 6233638

I have noticed two things:[list=1][*]When setting the queue sizes to their maximum, they now stay almost maxed out:

31–32/32
23–24/24
22–24/24
15–16/16

Previously they were close to, but not reaching the maximum with the old default values, so to fill that many extra queues, it seems like performance must have gone up quite a bit.

Maybe it has, not sure. So any improvements or negative side effects by increasing the queue sizes?

Originally Posted by dansrfe

I maxed out all the queues and I don't see any problem. GPU memory usage is 50MB below the max with all queues filled to the max with very slight fluctuations.

Good. Any improvements by maxing out the queues? Or any negative side effects?

Originally Posted by Boltron

Thanks! I will however not till Saturday, I am away from home.

No worries, I'm not in a hurry.

[LigH]

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR currently does not allow you to specify OSD size or font. I might add such features into a future version. But for now my priority is making madVR feature complete first. Cosmetical things like changing OSD looks is pretty low on my priority list right now. You'll have to wait a while until I get to these things, I'm sorry. I hope you'll agree that things like adding post processing shader support, DVD support, DXVA deinterlacing etc are much more important things compared to changing OSD font sizes...

No panic, madshi. First solve the serious issues.

But when you get there some day ... I was looking for a way to call the configuration dialog while no video was played. You might add a matching batch file to your package to allow this, I guess it would be a call of RunDLL?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by LigH

But when you get there some day ... I was looking for a way to call the configuration dialog while no video was played. You might add a matching batch file to your package to allow this, I guess it would be a call of RunDLL?

This is on my to do list. Currently the settings dialog only works if there's a madVR video instance running. Changing that is possible, but not a 5 minute job.

[Andy o]

Originally Posted by madshi

Oh well, so you want 24p display mode, but you still want madVR to deinterlace? I hope you can see that this is not intuitive to madVR. You could try "24i" or "48i" instead of "24p", but then you need to turn off the option "don't deinterlace 48i" in the madVR settings.

The way it worked for me with CUVID was that the decoder did IVTC to 30p (no decimating), then I would decimate with ffdshow/avisynth. When I played a 29i file then, it would be IVTCd and decimated to 24p, which is why I wanted to force madVR to switch 29i files to 24p manually by tweaking the file name.

I think avisynth/ffdshow decimating wouldn't work with madVR deinterlacing though, the way it does with CUVID, right? Cause the deinterlacing is being done after ffdshow's processor.

It makes sense to switch to 1080i59/60. But I don't see why it makes sense to activate deinterlacing in that case?

What does madVR do with interlaced content when deinterlacing is not active? Looks pretty bad with interlacing lines all over. The way I'm figuring it works when deinterlacing is on with telecine content, is it reconstructs the frames into 60p and a 3-2 pulldown pattern. Then the video card re-interlaces it into 1080i and my TV again reconstructs the frames, this time to 24p into 72 Hz.

Pioneer TVs and probably other TVs/processors do this automatically, but only with up to 1080i sources. If it were possible to pass the original interlaced video it would probably be ideal, but I don't think it is, and besides with lower than 1080i content there would be problems with scaling, cause I always keep my desktop to 1080x1920.

I understand this probably affects only people with Pioneer TVs and then very few of us, if not only me. I thought it would be an easy fix, if not, don't worry about it.

[nx6]

Originally Posted by madshi

It was not removed. If you don't get the message then probably you have exclusive mode disabled accidently? Or maybe it stopped working for you? You can check via Ctrl+J. It tells you whether madVR is in windowed or exclusive mode.

How does one disable Exclusive Mode?

I've updated to 0.79, "uninstalling" the old version first. Also reset to default settings, no change.

Is there an actual difference in rendering quality on Windowed vs Exclusive mode, or it just that Exclusive allows better system performance?

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Andy o

What does madVR do with interlaced content when deinterlacing is not active?

It does nothing. Interlaced content is typically already weaved into one frame, and madVR just shows you that. Of course, you'll see the interlaced artifacts/combing.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Andy o

The way it worked for me with CUVID was that the decoder did IVTC to 30p (no decimating), then I would decimate with ffdshow/avisynth. When I played a 29i file then, it would be IVTCd and decimated to 24p, which is why I wanted to force madVR to switch 29i files to 24p manually by tweaking the file name.

I think avisynth/ffdshow decimating wouldn't work with madVR deinterlacing though, the way it does with CUVID, right? Cause the deinterlacing is being done after ffdshow's processor.

You're right, that wouldn't work. So it probably makes no sense to use either "24p" or "48i" tags, unless the content is soft-telecined. In the long run I may implement decimating, but it will be difficult to do on the GPU. I'll probably have to use CUDA or OpenCL, and unfortunately ATI doesn't offer Direct3D9 <-> OpenCL interopability, so I'm not sure if it will be possible at all. There may be a different solution to remove the 3:2 judder, without decimating. But let's talk about that later...

The first step was to implement DXVA2 deinterlacing. To be honest, I consider is mostly useful only for native video type content. It's also moderately useful for movie content. But movie handling is definitely not ideal yet. But I gotta take one step at a time. At least I'm at the same level as EVR now, in terms of deinterlacing capability. Further improvements are planned for future versions (but probably not too soon).

Originally Posted by Andy o

Pioneer TVs and probably other TVs/processors do this automatically, but only with up to 1080i sources. If it were possible to pass the original interlaced video it would probably be ideal, but I don't think it is, and besides with lower than 1080i content there would be problems with scaling, cause I always keep my desktop to 1080x1920.

I understand this probably affects only people with Pioneer TVs and then very few of us, if not only me. I thought it would be an easy fix, if not, don't worry about it.

It's not a question of easy or not. Changing this would indeed be easy. The question for me is whether it makes generally sense to deinterlace 1080i60 content if the GPU outputs 1080i60, anyway. Maybe it does make sense, maybe not. I'm not 100% sure. Any more opinions on that?

Originally Posted by nx6

How does one disable Exclusive Mode?

I've updated to 0.79, "uninstalling" the old version first. Also reset to default settings, no change.

There's an option in the madVR settings to disable exclusive mode. It's rather unlikely that you enabled that option by accident, but not impossible. Anyway, resetting to default settings should make sure exclusive mode is enabled. So the problem must be something else. So does Ctrl+J definitely confirm that you're in windowed mode and not in exclusive mode, even when going fullscreen?

Originally Posted by nx6

Is there an actual difference in rendering quality on Windowed vs Exclusive mode, or it just that Exclusive allows better system performance?

Exclusive mode usually performs better and pretty much guarantees that you don't get any tearing. In windowed mode you may get tearing and the danger of getting frame drops is usually higher. However, if windowed mode works perfectly for you, with no tearing, no frame drops and no performance problems, then there's no reason to use exclusive mode. Anyway, it might still make sense to figure out why it's not working for you (in case it really isn't).

[thuan]

Originally Posted by madshi

That's a known problem for some users. Unfortunately it doesn't occur on my PC, so I don't know right now what to do about it. I've implemented a little change in v0.79, though, which *may* help (but I rather doubt it). So you can retest this with v0.79.

It's good to be doubtful, but with 0.79 that problem goes away .

[ranpha]

Sample.

madVR won't deinterlace this file, while with EVR custom presenter the deinterlacing will happen.

Filter graph: LAV Splitter/Haali + LAV Video Decoder (software mode).

[gendouhydeist]

Ok I've set my Display to 60Hz but why madVR display as 59.93Hz and 60Hz Composition rate instead of 60Hz Display even in exclusive mode

[SamuelMaki]

Originally Posted by SamuelMaki

I have maybe a problem with the presentation queue... Now with 0.78 version presentation queue is 0-3/4, when 0.77 reports 3-4/4 all the time... I do not have any presentation qlitches or dropped frames thought... So, what is the problem, or is there any problem with ctrl+j reporting? I am using radeon hd 5650...

Playback is perfect with 0.79
Queues stay with maximum/maximum -1...

[nx6]

Originally Posted by madshi

So does Ctrl+J definitely confirm that you're in windowed mode and not in exclusive mode, even when going fullscreen?

Yup, goes from "windowed mode" to "fullscreen windowed mode" now.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by thuan

It's good to be doubtful, but with 0.79 that problem goes away .

Yey! Good news...

Originally Posted by ranpha

Sample.

madVR won't deinterlace this file, while with EVR custom presenter the deinterlacing will happen.

Filter graph: LAV Splitter/Haali + LAV Video Decoder (software mode).

Good sample, thanks. It doesn't have any frame rate information, which confuses madVR's "deinterlacing on/off" decision. Will be fixed in the next build.

Originally Posted by gendouhydeist

Ok I've set my Display to 60Hz but why madVR display as 59.93Hz and 60Hz Composition rate instead of 60Hz Display even in exclusive mode

madVR's display information is usually very reliable. So it seems that your GPU really does output 59.93Hz instead of 60.00Hz. That is actually a good thing because by far most consumer content (broadcasts, Blu-Rays, DVDs) is 60/1.001 = 59.940fps.

Originally Posted by SamuelMaki

Playback is perfect with 0.79
Queues stay with maximum/maximum -1...

Great! Looks like v0.79 seems to be a nice improvement all around.

Originally Posted by nx6

Yup, goes from "windowed mode" to "fullscreen windowed mode" now.

Hmmmm... Please create a log and uploaded it (zipped). Please try to keep it small. Which means: Start your media player, go to fullscreen mode, wait 10 seconds, close your media player. Done. Thx.

[Gser]

Originally Posted by madshi

Not sure what problem you're seeing there. The DScaler IVTC mod is supposed to do IVTC, that's what it's for. madVR knows that and so treats the DScaler IVTC mod output as 24p. That's intentional madVR behaviour and I see nothing wrong with it.

It shows film speed for all material - even natively interlaced 30fps material. If I decode the file with your internal filters or FFDShow MadVR shows 30fps. For v 0.78 it still deinterlaced it but for 0.79 it does not. Forcing deinterlacing seems to work for now. Don't know it MadVR is rendering at film speed or just claims to.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Gser

It shows film speed for all material - even natively interlaced 30fps material. If I decode the file with your internal filters or FFDShow MadVR shows 30fps. For v 0.78 it still deinterlaced it but for 0.79 it does not. Forcing deinterlacing seems to work for now. Don't know it MadVR is rendering at film speed or just claims to.

The DScaler IVTC Mod is meant to be used mainly for movie content. If you use it for that purpose, the movie should already fully be deinterlaced and decimated when it reached madVR, resulting in 24p. And that is what madVR expects from the DScaler IVTC Mod. Consequently, the deinterlacer gets deactivated, because why deinterlacing progressive 24p content? For natively interlaced material the DScaler IVTC Mod is not the choice. It might accidently treat some scenes as being movie content, resulting is dropped fields, artifacts and non-smooth motion.

[Gser]

Originally Posted by madshi

The DScaler IVTC Mod is meant to be used mainly for movie content. If you use it for that purpose, the movie should already fully be deinterlaced and decimated when it reached madVR, resulting in 24p. And that is what madVR expects from the DScaler IVTC Mod. Consequently, the deinterlacer gets deactivated, because why deinterlacing progressive 24p content? For natively interlaced material the DScaler IVTC Mod is not the choice. It might accidently treat some scenes as being movie content, resulting is dropped fields, artifacts and non-smooth motion.

I also tried the non IVTC version. Same thing. I also have IVTC set as off. The IVTC part never worked for me anyways.