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Old 21st May 2017, 15:57   #43801  |  Link
Oguignant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Well you actually do need a 1080 Ti or better for maximum madVR, maximum being the highest settings possible. You need a very powerful GPU to do 1080p -> 2160p with NGU veryHigh.

Whether or not using NGU veryHigh instead of high or medium is worth $400+ is debatable, of course, but "maximum madVR" does require a 1080 Ti or better.

Actually, I still have to use profiles with lower settings for harder content and I have an overclocked and water cooled Titan X (Pascal). Even the current top end cards cannot run truly maximum madVR, though they get pretty close.
True, even with a Titan x or 1080ti you can not use all the highest values ​​in Madvr.
But, I use in 23hz of refresh and in 95% of the cases I can raise to the maximum all the values, with a max render time of 18-26ms 1080p -> 2160p with NGU veryHigh.
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Old 21st May 2017, 16:07   #43802  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Interesting, it does seem like NGU has improved on Polaris.

My Pascal Titan X doesn't do that much better at NGU Sharp very high 1080p -> 2160p.

These are the rendering times for the NGU step by itself (ShowRenderSteps). If you disable subtitles and smooth motion you can see it reported by itself, the times weren't quite the same when it was mixed into another line. I used chroma doubling set to normal (Bicubic 60). madVR v0.91.9 of course, DX11 fullscreen windowed, Win10 w/ creators update, Nvidia driver version 382.05. I added image enhancements and changed chroma upscaling to keep the GPU clocks up. The GPU was at 1860 MHz unless otherwise noted.

NGU Sharp (low): 1.7 ms
NGU Sharp (med): 2.6 ms
NGU Sharp (high): 5.2 ms
NGU Sharp (very high): 16.8 ms

edit:
I remember NNEDI3 differences being interesting too:
NNEDI3 32: 4.18 ms
NNEDI3 64: 7.54 ms
NNEDI3 128: 18.83 ms
NNEDI3 256: 32.93 ms (1835 MHz)
With what configuration did you get these times?
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Old 21st May 2017, 16:26   #43803  |  Link
imhh11
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gtx1060 and gtx 1070, latest driver, creator update, latest lavfilter and madvr, mpc-be, windows 10 API


passthrough hdr windowed or FSE + hdr slidder off = washed out color (tv doesnt show hdr)
passthrough hdr windowed + hdr slidder on = black screen and screen stay black even after closing mpc (tv show hdr)
passthrough hdr FSE + hdr slidder on = hdr displayed correctly ( tv show hdr )

and like Sideeffect said, I have to use the nvidia default colour setting or HDR wont work.

it's working mostly like the other version of madvr except for the black screen in windowed mode.

Last edited by imhh11; 21st May 2017 at 16:45.
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Old 21st May 2017, 18:22   #43804  |  Link
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There was a long standing bug with Intel GPUs where activating the "use D3D11 for presentation" option could result in video frames jumping back and forth. I was finally able to reproduce the bug on my new Kaby Lake test PC. It turned out to be a GPU driver bug (as usual). I've found a workaround, so the problem should hopefully be fixed now.
Yes, it's fixed on my laptop with Ivy Bridge processor i7-3630QM. Thanks!
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Old 21st May 2017, 21:30   #43805  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sideeffect View Post
System - Nvidia 1070 Windows 10 creators LG OLED C6 display.

To get HDR to work i have to enable use default colour settings in Nvidia control Panel and enable HDR and advanced colour in display settings.

In MadVR I have to enable Directx 11 exclusive mode and I leave hdr setting on passthrough.

When I start a HDR video as soon as it goes into exclusive mode it shows as HDR.

This was the same bahavour as with last version of Madvr.
So you're saying your display still stays in SDR mode, even when you enable the "HDR and advanced color" switch in display settings? Your display only switches to HDR mode for the exact duration in which madVR is in fullscreen exclusive mode?

If that's the case, does the switch to HDR only happen if you tell madVR to pass the HDR metadata to the display?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideeffect View Post
When playing HDR games I have to follow same process.
So madVR behaves the same way as HDR games, is that correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideeffect View Post
The Nvidia HDR sample SDK doesn't work on creators update using Nvidia drivers newer than 381.89. If i install those older drivers the SDK can display a HDR signal using the Nvidia API but the option for HDR and advanced colour is missing from display settings.
Interesting. With those older drivers, does madVR v0.91.10 manage to switch into HDR mode, when using the "Nvidia's private API" option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
Made tests with all possible video frame rates, no poison on my side 0.91.9 and 0.91.10 with hack enabled or disabled - everything working as expected. Always the right refresh rate is chosen, the queues are filling properly in all cases.
Tested with Win 10 x64 Creators Update, AMD R7 250 current drivers.
That sounds good. That's not the case for my Kaby Lake GPU, though. Maybe it's a driver issue, once more?

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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
Hi, this new option "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work" Exactly what does this option do?
If you're not sure what the option is for then you most probably don't need it. In that case simply leave it unchecked.

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Originally Posted by mrcorbo View Post
I am using a GTX 1060. The OS shows the HDR switch for me. I have tried the switch on and off. My display switched into HDR when I flip the switch. The display switches *out* of HDR when FSE is activated and I can actually switch it into and out of HDR by toggling fullscreen on and off.
Wow, that's weird. Totally different behaviour to what Sideeffect and oldpainlesskodi are reporting!

You're saying your display immediately switches into HDR mode when you flip the "use HDR and Advanced color" display settings switch on, even if no video is playing and no game is running?

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Originally Posted by mrcorbo View Post
When I activate the Win 10 API with the HDR switch off in windowed mode, I get basically the inverse of the above image. It's very dark with over-saturated colors.
Strange. With these settings, how does fullscreen exclusive mode look?

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Originally Posted by mrcorbo View Post
With the above, with FSE disabled, almost immediately after switching to fullscreen I get a black screen followed by a system reboot.
Ouch. Sounds like a driver bug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imhh11 View Post
gtx1060 and gtx 1070, latest driver, creator update, latest lavfilter and madvr, mpc-be, windows 10 API

passthrough hdr windowed or FSE + hdr slidder off = washed out color (tv doesnt show hdr)
passthrough hdr windowed + hdr slidder on = black screen and screen stay black even after closing mpc (tv show hdr)
passthrough hdr FSE + hdr slidder on = hdr displayed correctly ( tv show hdr )
So basically your TV is switching into HDR mode as soon as you turn the OS HDR slider on, regardless of whether any video or games are running?

What happens if you tell madVR to *not* pass the HDR metadata to the display? Does that change anything at all?
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Old 21st May 2017, 21:45   #43806  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Which rendering intent is better for the 3DLUT on a monitor with sRGB coverage?
I like perceptual for sRGB/BT.709 or SD content on an sRGB display.

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Originally Posted by igvk View Post
Here are the options of 3D LUT for madVR:
For Rendering intent, do not use "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling", use perceptual or another option which does not clip out of gamut colors.

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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
Hi, this new option "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work" Exactly what does this option do? For the movies of 23.976 fps and I auto change the refresher to 23hz and use Re clock. Should I also use this new option too? Why?
It hacks Direct3D to make 24 and 60 Hz work. If you want to use 24.000 Hz or 60.000 Hz you need to enable it. If you only want to use 23 Hz (23.976) or 59 Hz (59.940) then you should not enable it. It can cause presentation queues to not fill correctly so it should only be enabled if you want true 24 or 60 Hz refresh rates.

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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
With what configuration did you get these times?
I think I posted everything relevant in that post. I ran the tests on a i7-6700 at 4.7 GHz. Those are the individual times for NGU, not the total average rendering time. If you put an empty file called "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR directory it will show you the rendering times for each filter individually in the OSD.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 21st May 2017 at 21:50.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:09   #43807  |  Link
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For Rendering intent, do not use "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling", use perceptual or another option which does not clip out of gamut colors.
Won't perceptual rendering intent actually make the in-gamut colors wrong for video?
I actually think that clipping of out-of-gamut colors is desirable.
Maybe, it's better to choose relative colorimetric then?
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:10   #43808  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
It hacks Direct3D to make 24 and 60 Hz work. If you want to use 24.000 Hz or 60.000 Hz you need to enable it. If you only want to use 23 Hz (23.976) or 59 Hz (59.940) then you should not enable it. It can cause presentation queues to not fill correctly so it should only be enabled if you want true 24 or 60 Hz refresh rates.
I would like to understand when I should use it. If I change the refresh to 24hz instead of 23hz I could use it? Who would win?

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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I think I posted everything relevant in that post. I ran the tests on a i7-6700 at 4.7 GHz. Those are the individual times for NGU, not the total average rendering time. If you put an empty file called "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR directory it will show you the rendering times for each filter individually in the OSD.
Ah, ok ... they seemed too short.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:17   #43809  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post


So basically your TV is switching into HDR mode as soon as you turn the OS HDR slider on, regardless of whether any video or games are running?

What happens if you tell madVR to *not* pass the HDR metadata to the display? Does that change anything at all?
Yes exactly as soon as the HDR slidder is on, the HDR logo appears on my tv and my tv stay in HDR mode regardless of whether any video is playing. But desktop is weird / dark looking.

Once I start an hdr video in FSE, even if my tv is already in HDR mode, the hdr logo appears again and madvr/mpc-be display HDR correctly.

If I uncheck ''send HDR metadata to the display'' :
it change nothing
in FSE: HDR is still displayed properly
windowed mode: washed out colors

Last edited by imhh11; 21st May 2017 at 22:33.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:30   #43810  |  Link
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Maybe, it's better to choose relative colorimetric then?
Well, I was addressing those artifacts in your test pattern.

I prefer perceptual myself, accuracy is not affected very much and the image looks better. I spent years using an absolute or relative (or luminescence axis) intent but once I got over my accuracy > all fixation I much prefer the image when using perceptual. And you never get clipping artifacts.

If the display's gamut is not very close to the source gamut then perceptual is not a good choice but when your display is already close to the source gamut then perceptual is my preferred choice.

I suggest testing the various intents and picking the one that looks best to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
I would like to understand when I should use it. If I change the refresh to 24hz instead of 23hz I could use it? Who would win?
If you want to use 24Hz with Windows 10 or 8.1 you probably need to use it, otherwise no. I never need to use 24 or 60 Hz so I do not enable it. Nothing wins if you don't need 24 Hz. I understand there are some 24 Hz blurays but I don't think I have any. Personally, enabling smooth motion and not worrying about any of these refresh rate issues is my preferred technique.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:30   #43811  |  Link
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So you're saying your display still stays in SDR mode, even when you enable the "HDR and advanced color" switch in display settings? Your display only switches to HDR mode for the exact duration in which madVR is in fullscreen exclusive mode?
When I enable "HDR and advanced color" the display shows HDR enabled and the display enters HDR mode. If I open up a HDR video in windowed mode the colours are washed out.

Once I go to full screen the display shows HDR again like it detects it again and the colours display properly the same as if I would run them from a USB stick on TV.

I guessed this was because HDR is only working in directx 11 mode and even though the windows desktop is sending a HDR enabled signal to the display it still is actually only working in a directx 11 fullscreen aplication.

Some people are reporting that the Microsoft films and tv app is working with HDR in windowed mode but I disagree as I think it looks different more like HDR to SDR conversion and not as good as USB playback or madvr exclusive playback.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So madVR behaves the same way as HDR games, is that correct?
Yes MadVR behaves the same as Mass effect Andromeda and Shadow Warrior 2. But this is not a good thing as it's a pain to keep changing colour settings. I leave the Display in Nvidia colour 8-bit RGB Full for everything else. Enabling the Microsoft colours sets either RGB limited or 422 you can't really see the setting but either way it looks crap for general PC usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcorbo View Post
Are you using 382.19? For me this is no longer the case on this driver.
No I am still using 382.05 as the Prey hotfix didn't apply to me. What changed with HDR?
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:37   #43812  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
If you want to use 24Hz with Windows 10 or 8.1 you probably need to use it, otherwise no. I never need to use 24 or 60 Hz so I do not enable it. Nothing wins if you don't need 24 Hz. I understand there are some 24 Hz blurays but I don't think I have any. Personally, enabling smooth motion and not worrying about any of these refresh rate issues is my preferred technique.
Now I understand. I use 23hz (99% of the movies I have are 23,976 fps) and de-judder/de-blur options from the Tv. looks great.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:39   #43813  |  Link
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@madshi

Same issue of imhh11,
GTX1070, Win10 CU, latest nvidia driver, latest madvr, latest Lav Filter.
I use Kodi DSlayer v17.1. TV Samsung KS8000

If I turn on HDR slide in Windows 10, all videos are play in HDR mode.
If I turn off HDR slide in Windows 10, madvr don't turn on my TV into HDR mode. The only way is to turn on HDR slide manually when I need to play an HDR video.

Thanks madshi for your work.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:42   #43814  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Well, I was addressing those artifacts in your test pattern.

I prefer perceptual myself, accuracy is not affected very much and the image looks better. I spent years using an absolute or relative (or luminescence axis) intent but once I got over my accuracy > all fixation I much prefer the image when using perceptual. And you never get clipping artifacts.

If the display's gamut is not very close to the source gamut then perceptual is not a good choice but when your display is already close to the source gamut then perceptual is my preferred choice.

I suggest testing the various intents and picking the one that looks best to you.
Ok, I tried both relative colorimetric and perceptual.
Switched to D3D9 windowed, and both give these saturated color blotches on video.
I have wide gamut display, and certainly need to use 3dlut.
As far as I understand the problem, it's due to the fact that values 236-255 are not expected on input and simply not translated on output.
Is it correct? Or is there a way still to map them to the nearest color value that is in gamut for sRGB?
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:46   #43815  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So you're saying your display still stays in SDR mode, even when you enable the "HDR and advanced color" switch in display settings? Your display only switches to HDR mode for the exact duration in which madVR is in fullscreen exclusive mode?
When I enable "HDR and advanced color" the display shows HDR enabled and the display enters HDR mode. If I open up a HDR video in windowed mode the colours are washed out.

Once I go to full screen the display shows HDR again like it detects it again and the colours display properly the same as if I would run them from a USB stick on TV.

I guessed this was because HDR is only working in directx 11 mode and even though the windows desktop is sending a HDR enabled signal to the display it still is actually only working in a directx 11 fullscreen aplication.

Some people are reporting that the Microsoft films and tv app is working with HDR in windowed mode but I disagree as I think it looks different more like HDR to SDR conversion and not as good as USB playback or madvr exclusive playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So madVR behaves the same way as HDR games, is that correct?
Yes MadVR behaves the same as Mass effect Andromeda and Shadow Warrior 2. But this is not a good thing as it's a pain to keep changing colour settings. I leave the Display in Nvidia colour 8-bit RGB Full for everything else. Enabling the Microsoft colours sets either RGB limited or 422 you can't really see the setting but either way it looks crap for general PC usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcorbo View Post
Are you using 382.19? For me this is no longer the case on this driver.
No I am still using 382.05 as the Prey hotfix didn't apply to me. What changed with HDR?
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Old 21st May 2017, 23:22   #43816  |  Link
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If it is simply that you have full range input then the source needs to say it is full range. If it doesn't you can use Crtl-Alt-Shift-I to toggle through the input levels, PC is full range where 255 is mapped to 100% instead of 235. With limited range content you cannot map 236-255 to in-gamut colors; they are, by definition, out of gamut.

Sorry, I am confused as to what you want and why you are looking at this test image.

Please continue to ask calibration questions in the Display Calibration thread so we don't clog up madshi's thread with calibration.
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Old 21st May 2017, 23:43   #43817  |  Link
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If it is simply that you have full range input then the source needs to say it is full range. If it doesn't you can use Crtl-Alt-Shift-I to toggle through the input levels, PC is full range where 255 is mapped to 100% instead of 235. With limited range content you cannot map 236-255 to in-gamut colors; they are, by definition, out of gamut
Ok, possibly the source is wrong and it is full range, but not providing this.
Strange that in this case madVR doesn't clip these values, and it leads to wrong colors.
Seems that I need to manually switch this source encoding for each video in this case.

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Sorry, I am confused as to what you want and why you are looking at this test image.
This is a screenshot from video, not an image actually. There are many examples of such wrong colors in several videos.

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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Please continue to ask calibration questions in the Display Calibration thread so we don't clog up madshi's thread with calibration.
Didn't think that it was display calibration related question, just what madVR does with 3dlut mappings.
But ok, possibly it's bordering with calibration much.

P.S. Forgot to ask: does madVR support 3D LUT for full range content?
Because there is no way to select input or output encoding "RGB 0-255" when creating 3dlut for madVR.

Last edited by igvk; 21st May 2017 at 23:59.
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Old 21st May 2017, 23:49   #43818  |  Link
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Questions:


3) If HDR switch does NOT work for you: Which GPU are you using? Does the OS show the "HDR and Advanced color" switch to you? Have you tried with the switch on and off? Does your display switch into HDR with the switch on or off? Or neither?

RX470.Yes,it shows the switch.I tried it on and off but it gets disabled all the time.The only time I've seen it enabled was with the installation of new drivers but it didn't last long.With previous madvr version I've seen it getting enabled at random times when opening a video(non hdr) but if I remember well it gets disabled when going fullscreen.Haven't tested a lot with v0.91.10 but the behavior seems like the past.Washed out image and hdr stays disabled.


Also did you change anything else?I think I found an occasion that I have dropped frames when in the past things seemed more stable.Not completely sure though.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 00:05   #43819  |  Link
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That sounds good. That's not the case for my Kaby Lake GPU, though. Maybe it's a driver issue, once more?
Seems like that, yes. Bad driver implementations and OS quirks like Creators Update may keep us all busy for the next decades
I recently made a clean OS install directly with Win 10 Creators Update included and didnīt have any major problems though like others reported... Some small things like a taskbar that didnīt like to disappear in FSE and things like that but nothing too critical.

BTW: Recently I had several use cases for 24.000 Hz. I often watch movies with Amazon Video and there are several with this frame rate (some months/years ago they were mainly 23.976fps, in the meantime the number of 24.000fps ones is growing). And of course I watch them with madVR (Kodi with MPC HC as external player). So the 23.976fps vs. 24.000fps topic has indeed some relevance (when using corresponding refresh rates and not smoothmotion of course).
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Old 22nd May 2017, 00:42   #43820  |  Link
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If I have h265 files with HDR info in headers (added with --master-display option) will these be fully passed over HDMI?
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