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Old 1st January 2017, 12:52   #41801  |  Link
DragonQ
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Does anyone know what kind of scaling can be done by a GTX 1050? I'm interested in that card for the 2160p60 10b HEVC decoding, although I'm not sure whether the extra VRAM of the 1050 Ti would make a difference for madVR?
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Old 1st January 2017, 13:38   #41802  |  Link
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@Patrk G
Could you make screencaps of from your Pioneer of Samsungs "Journey of Color" Demo like these ones














You could also use the Pictures just push them on the Pioneer with full light intensity

Calibration and Sharpness Setup are very important here
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Old 1st January 2017, 18:36   #41803  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
Clarisimo!
So, when madvr says 10 bit in exclusive mode, what does it mean?
It mean that last data which user mode software pass to driver is 10 bit. No more, no less.
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Old 1st January 2017, 20:08   #41804  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Cinemancave View Post
How should I configure madvr/lav in order to perform HDR-->SDR conversion and leaving BT.2020 untouched?

I have a JVC projector and a popular method of watching UHD is to let Panasonic UB700/900 do HDR-->SDR conversion with BT.2020 passthrough with the help of the HD fury/integral. I am basically interested in doing the same thing with Madvr since I now have HDR content on my HTPC. I am thinking this should be possible?
This post lead me to think about something: I've got a 4K TV and madVR set in relation to it.

Recently I changed video card (upgraded to a GTX1070) and used again dispcal to calibrate the TV, I set it to 2.4 gamma with 6500K white point... question is...should I recalibrate it to BT2020?

Now madVR is set "calibrated BT709 with gamma 2.4", if I change it to BT2020 I see that the video is like losing colours, with DCI-P3 I see it like a middle way, while BT709 is the one more colorful (even if with some video sometimes faces look a bit too red but not with all of them so I guess is also related to the way has been shooted).

Can anyone give me some opionion about this? Please :-)

thanks !
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Old 1st January 2017, 21:23   #41805  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
this means that Madvr can never match or exceed the quality of the native TV player?
Be careful, you cannot equate quality only to bitdepth.

For example, upscaling chroma with bilinear but preserving 10-bit is not better, IMO, than using jinc, NGU, or NNEDI3 for chroma scaling and dithering to 8-bit.

Actually, for display 10-bit is fairly unimportant if the dithering is high quality. Dithering doesn't live through compression so 10-bit is very good for source material and processing in >8bit is very important so errors don't build up but for final output and display madVR's 8-bit output with ordered or ED dithering is indistinguishable from 10-bit.
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Old 1st January 2017, 21:30   #41806  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
I set it to 2.4 gamma with 6500K white point... question is...should I recalibrate it to BT2020?
I do have some suggestions but let's cover pure calibration questions in the Display Calibration thread, please.
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Old 1st January 2017, 21:31   #41807  |  Link
kiwijunglist
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The best you can do is 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or if you really want 10-bit for some reason its down to 4:2:2.
Hi nevcairiel (or others)

Source: UHD HDR bluray remux
GPU: 1070
Cable: HDMI
TV: Samsung ua65ks9000

Would you recommend 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or 60Hz10-bit 4:2:2 or something else?

Thanks.
Kiwi


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Old 1st January 2017, 22:02   #41808  |  Link
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I would strongly recommend 4:4:4 8-bit, madVR's chroma scaling is great and 10-bit isn't important with good dithering.

I don't really like the temporal dithering used by FRC displays but madVR's spatial dithering is excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Does anyone know what kind of scaling can be done by a GTX 1050? I'm interested in that card for the 2160p60 10b HEVC decoding, although I'm not sure whether the extra VRAM of the 1050 Ti would make a difference for madVR?
The RAM isn't too important for madVR, you can use smaller buffers, but the extra cores/shaders can allow the use of the higher end scalers, etc.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 00:38   #41809  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Be careful, you cannot equate quality only to bitdepth.

For example, upscaling chroma with bilinear but preserving 10-bit is not better, IMO, than using jinc, NGU, or NNEDI3 for chroma scaling and dithering to 8-bit.

Actually, for display 10-bit is fairly unimportant if the dithering is high quality. Dithering doesn't live through compression so 10-bit is very good for source material and processing in >8bit is very important so errors don't build up but for final output and display madVR's 8-bit output with ordered or ED dithering is indistinguishable from 10-bit.
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I would strongly recommend 4:4:4 8-bit, madVR's chroma scaling is great and 10-bit isn't important with good dithering.

I don't really like the temporal dithering used by FRC displays but madVR's spatial dithering is excellent.



The RAM isn't too important for madVR, you can use smaller buffers, but the extra cores/shaders can allow the use of the higher end scalers, etc.

Please what ?

A Spatial noise Patern is indistinguishable from a Temporal Approach ?

No noise at all the clear Signal that is what you aiming for neither Temporal Noise nor Spatial Noise

But you never gonna see the benefit unless you see it on a total 10 bit Chain in and out in Motion

And you would need to see the Processing side by side so MadVR vs TV Chip (Signal Chain) anyways (did you do such a test with a 2016 TV out of the Premium Line ? )

And internally you never do any PP in the native 10 bit but above it same the new TVs seem todo Sony Processing it seems upto 14 bit internally (depending on the price you willing to pay).





This Scene of course will band extreme in 8 bit and the closer you are calibrated the more visible it will become and a simple spatial patern wont rescue you here in motion.

Not sure where these 1 Pixel error comes from in this Demo you can see very small red Pixel in various frames maybe the Sensor had issues, GPU Processing or left Path Tracer artifact

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Old 2nd January 2017, 01:29   #41810  |  Link
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Might sound redundant but could it be possible to add a profile management layer on top? Currently my use of profiles is ridden by nature of source (res, fps, etc) and display (monitor or TV), the issue is that more and more often source content defines the settings to be used, specially when comparing those for anime or real life content, in this regard conditional profiling doesn't apply, and profile hotkeys are disabled since I already have some conditionals...
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Old 2nd January 2017, 01:52   #41811  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
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Originally Posted by kiwijunglist View Post
Hi nevcairiel (or others)

Source: UHD HDR bluray remux
GPU: 1070
Cable: HDMI
TV: Samsung ua65ks9000

Would you recommend 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or 60Hz10-bit 4:2:2 or something else?
The Video you're playing is most likely 23.967fps....
why not go 23.976Hz 2160p 4:4:4 10bit and get both 10bit and 4:4:4...
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Old 2nd January 2017, 05:10   #41812  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by CruNcher View Post
Please what ?

A Spatial noise Patern is indistinguishable from a Temporal Approach ?
So you like 10-bit 4:2:2 instead?

madVR outputs RGB so having the GPU convert to YCbCr and downscale the chroma has always looked worse to me then the VERY subtle noise from dithering in 8-bit. Most people cannot see a difference between dithered 10-bit and dithered 8-bit even with specific test patterns but blurring the chroma is (relatively) obvious in specific situations.

Of course 10-bit is nice for the reduced dithering noise but only if you can maintain RGB at the same time, IMO.

I can distinguish temporal from spacial dithering, pixels have a minor "shimmering" to them which is more noticeable to me then the static noise from madVR's dithering (I like madVR's dithering without color or motion).

Edit: Some TVs might do as good a job at chroma upscaling as madVR, do all processing in at least 14-bit, and maintain 10-bit to the panel but at the same time you cannot say quality is only 10-bit v.s. 8-bit.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 07:25   #41813  |  Link
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So you like 10-bit 4:2:2 instead?

madVR outputs RGB so having the GPU convert to YCbCr and downscale the chroma has always looked worse to me then the VERY subtle noise from dithering in 8-bit. Most people cannot see a difference between dithered 10-bit and dithered 8-bit even with specific test patterns but blurring the chroma is (relatively) obvious in specific situations.

Of course 10-bit is nice for the reduced dithering noise but only if you can maintain RGB at the same time, IMO.

I can distinguish temporal from spacial dithering, pixels have a minor "shimmering" to them which is more noticeable to me then the static noise from madVR's dithering (I like madVR's dithering without color or motion).

Edit: Some TVs might do as good a job at chroma upscaling as madVR, do all processing in at least 14-bit, and maintain 10-bit to the panel but at the same time you cannot say quality is only 10-bit v.s. 8-bit.
Yes i like the idea of 10 bit 4:2:2 and Samsung at least seems to officially support it on their 2016 Platform not sure about Sonys state here very few real useful official information on Sonys side.

The thing is as nice as it sounds to put the PC to the TV it is blasting inefficient on every side just for that small gain especialy with NGU wasting so much energy that is sorry crazy.

All TVs currently are Highly Efficient ARM Platforms Partly with their own Processing SOCs and you Put a PC to that todo Chroma upscaling with a Discrete GPU ?

If you use that TV as a PC Monitor you should take advantage of this and not use the PC at all anymore for Media Playback only for those that ARM System is to weak for or doesn't support, and merge both in a efficient way.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 09:15   #41814  |  Link
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DLP Checkerboard output?

I was wondering if madVR has ever considered including DLP Checkerboard as an output format?

I have an old Samsung DLP that will do 3D if the input is in Checkerboard format. The MVC builds of Kodi can actually do this, but it currently has some trouble with some of the MVC MKVs that I've made. I know that madVR handles these MKVs just fine, because if I set madVR to display side-by-side, it shows the files properly decoded. madVR just doesn't do DLP Checkerboard output. I'd prefer the simple combo of madVR with a simple media player anyways.

I know that this is an old display. I would just like to use it if I could.

There was a thread on Kodi's forum when this was asked about a few years ago, before Kodi implemented it. The developer of Bino3D chimed in, as they had implemented DLP Checkerboard in Bino3D. Maybe the information in this thread would be useful:

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=196827

Thanks!
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Old 2nd January 2017, 09:34   #41815  |  Link
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There was a thread on Kodi's forum when this was asked about a few years ago, before Kodi implemented it. The developer of Bino3D chimed in, as they had implemented DLP Checkerboard in Bino3D. Maybe the information in this thread would be useful:

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=196827

Thanks!
You can use kodi + madvr
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Old 2nd January 2017, 09:44   #41816  |  Link
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There was a thread on Kodi's forum when this was asked about a few years ago, before Kodi implemented it. The developer of Bino3D chimed in, as they had implemented DLP Checkerboard in Bino3D. Maybe the information in this thread would be useful:

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=196827

Thanks!
You can use kodi + madvr
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Old 2nd January 2017, 12:05   #41817  |  Link
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In my case, Kodi isn't properly displaying the MVC MKV files that I have. (I will attempt to work with the Kodi guy to get that problem resolved, but that's a separate thing.) I know that madVR can decode the files correctly because it can display them side-by-side.

Having madVR have the ability to output to DLP Checkerboard would open up madVR to be used in this instance in all the places that madVR can be used, which is a considerable benefit to madVR.

Thanks.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 14:04   #41818  |  Link
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The RAM isn't too important for madVR, you can use smaller buffers, but the extra cores/shaders can allow the use of the higher end scalers, etc.
Yeah the 1050 Ti is more powerful but I'm not sure if the difference is enough to actually allow any better madVR settings to be used. The price difference is pretty big - a jump from £110 to £140.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 14:10   #41819  |  Link
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You can use kodi + madvr
True but unless I'm totally out of the loop, you can only use madVR within Kodi when using DSPlayer, which is no longer updated. It also doesn't work properly with live TV (at least when using the MediaPortal TV Plugin), whereas using the default Kodi video player works fine.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 19:03   #41820  |  Link
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Yeah the 1050 Ti is more powerful but I'm not sure if the difference is enough to actually allow any better madVR settings to be used. The price difference is pretty big - a jump from £110 to £140.
if you want to scale to UHD you will need to buy a 1050 ti i don't see a problem with the 1050 for FHD.

you need more than 2 Gb of Vram for UHD.
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