The Next Generation Internet Video (NGIV) Codec project - Page 2

LigH · 17th September 2014, 22:59

Well, x265 is becoming a mature HEVC encoder; Google is developing VP10; how are you?

schweinsz · 19th September 2014, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LigH

Well, x265 is becoming a mature HEVC encoder; Google is developing VP10; how are you?

I code the q265 project (the H.265/HEVC encoder project that uses the hierarchical B 8 configuration) for my company, the encoder is 30-40% faster than the x265 medium configuration and 10% gain on bdbitrate.

I waste almost all my spare time during the last several months. I will start to finish NGIV project in next month, and it is expected to beat the HEVC/H.265 on coding efficiency.

Selur · 21st September 2014, 11:53

bdbitrate <- what's that?

Quote:

I will start to finish NGIV project in next month, and it is expected to beat the HEVC/H.265 on coding efficiency.

Are there plans for:
a. decoding support in libav ? (or another free decoding library?)
b. a command line encoder/decoder ?

foxyshadis · 22nd September 2014, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selur

bdbitrate <- what's that?

Bjøntegaard-Delta bitrate, a fancy name for the measure of bitrate difference to match PSNR on average.

schweinsz · 22nd September 2014, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selur

bdbitrate <- what's that?

Are there plans for:
a. decoding support in libav ? (or another free decoding library?)
b. a command line encoder/decoder ?

Firstly the latter, it is not difficult to integrate it to other platforms.

Gravitator · 6th October 2014, 18:21

Hi,
Found that there is a common disease in the family HEVC...
Can preliminary check on your release?
Test sample > Park_Joy (sneaky fly).
Original sample > Park_Joy (mega.co.nz).

LigH · 6th October 2014, 23:25

Gravitator, you are trying to get below Shannon's informational entropy. Don't complain about loss then. Different lossy codecs rate different parts of the video as acceptable loss, and the human brain will disagree with all of them in specific scenes and with a certain amount of artefacts.

Gravitator · 7th October 2014, 07:40

Just do not want to see another conveyor with the same repetition of errors /weak points. The author claims about the superiority of his product

LigH · 7th October 2014, 08:44

Well, it is hardly possible to measure the degree of annoyance people feel when watching a lossy video with artefacts, therefore it is hard to write an encoder which knows how to reduce the annoyance of artefacts optimally. The best strategy is to avoid artefacts in general. But that requires to stay close to, not very far below, a certain threshold of bitrate (the "entropy" in Claude Shannon's theory of information), no matter which codec you try to use to encode. There is no witchcraft and wizardry, just maths, and the formula to describe human perception is yet unknown, at least very incomplete. To improve a codec's efficiency, there are different strategies (usually "more efforts to find reducable redundancies" vs. "more detailed metrics to model human perception thresholds"), but both are already quite researched after decades of research and thousands of researchers; it won't be easy to discover another revolutionary method to cut another two-digit percentage off the bitrate. And after all, humans are different, one enjoys what another may find disgusting.

Gravitator · 7th October 2014, 09:35

The analogy comes from VP9 - it seems that your law is logically expected leads to similar results

I close this theme.
> sample

schweinsz · 8th October 2014, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitator

Just do not want to see another conveyor with the same repetition of errors /weak points. The author claims about the superiority of his product

When I finish the inter coding module, I will test it. Currently there is only the intra coding module.

Gravitator · 9th November 2014, 14:54

What characteristic will have the first prototype?

schweinsz · 12th November 2014, 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitator

What characteristic will have the first prototype?

Full intra encoder/decoder firstly in this winter.

LigH · 12th February 2015, 09:22

It is winter, and I am still curious...

Gravitator · 16th February 2015, 23:12

I am also interested to learn

schweinsz · 17th February 2015, 02:56

I still do research on it, but I have no time to implement it because I spend all of my time on my company's project H.265 encoder including my evening. I will code it when I am free.

LigH · 17th February 2015, 08:57

Hehe, Murphy's recursive law hits...

Quote:

Every project takes longer than planned. This includes planning this delay.

madanmohan · 8th March 2015, 05:18

Interesting to notice that alternative to DCT has been considered in video compression. Really wish you the best in bringing up your codec.

mandarinka · 10th March 2015, 19:11

Alternatives to DCT have been considered for the last 20 years, they just never work :>

Sulik · 10th March 2015, 19:30

Well, technically, HEVC is using an alternative to DCT in intra modes, it's using a DST, not a DCT

17th September 2014, 22:59	#21 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, rural Altmark Posts: 6,784	Well, x265 is becoming a mature HEVC encoder; Google is developing VP10; how are you? __________________ New German Gleitz board MediaFire: x264 \| x265 \| VPx \| AOM \| Xvid

6th October 2014, 18:21	#26 \| Link
Gravitator Registered User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292	Hi, Found that there is a common disease in the family HEVC... Can preliminary check on your release? Test sample > Park_Joy (sneaky fly). Original sample > Park_Joy (mega.co.nz). Last edited by Gravitator; 6th October 2014 at 18:24.

6th October 2014, 23:25	#27 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, rural Altmark Posts: 6,784	Gravitator, you are trying to get below Shannon's informational entropy. Don't complain about loss then. Different lossy codecs rate different parts of the video as acceptable loss, and the human brain will disagree with all of them in specific scenes and with a certain amount of artefacts. __________________ New German Gleitz board MediaFire: x264 \| x265 \| VPx \| AOM \| Xvid

7th October 2014, 08:44	#29 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, rural Altmark Posts: 6,784	Well, it is hardly possible to measure the degree of annoyance people feel when watching a lossy video with artefacts, therefore it is hard to write an encoder which knows how to reduce the annoyance of artefacts optimally. The best strategy is to avoid artefacts in general. But that requires to stay close to, not very far below, a certain threshold of bitrate (the "entropy" in Claude Shannon's theory of information), no matter which codec you try to use to encode. There is no witchcraft and wizardry, just maths, and the formula to describe human perception is yet unknown, at least very incomplete. To improve a codec's efficiency, there are different strategies (usually "more efforts to find reducable redundancies" vs. "more detailed metrics to model human perception thresholds"), but both are already quite researched after decades of research and thousands of researchers; it won't be easy to discover another revolutionary method to cut another two-digit percentage off the bitrate. And after all, humans are different, one enjoys what another may find disgusting. __________________ New German Gleitz board MediaFire: x264 \| x265 \| VPx \| AOM \| Xvid

12th February 2015, 09:22	#34 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, rural Altmark Posts: 6,784	It is winter, and I am still curious... __________________ New German Gleitz board MediaFire: x264 \| x265 \| VPx \| AOM \| Xvid

7th October 2014, 07:40	#28 \| Link
Gravitator Registered User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292	Just do not want to see another conveyor with the same repetition of errors /weak points. The author claims about the superiority of his product

7th October 2014, 09:35	#30 \| Link
Gravitator Registered User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292	The analogy comes from VP9 - it seems that your law is logically expected leads to similar results I close this theme. > sample

9th November 2014, 14:54	#32 \| Link
Gravitator Registered User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292	What characteristic will have the first prototype?

16th February 2015, 23:12	#35 \| Link
Gravitator Registered User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292	I am also interested to learn

17th February 2015, 02:56	#36 \| Link
schweinsz Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 497	I still do research on it, but I have no time to implement it because I spend all of my time on my company's project H.265 encoder including my evening. I will code it when I am free. __________________ The Next Generation Internet Video Codec project.[/url].

8th March 2015, 05:18	#38 \| Link
madanmohan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bangalore Posts: 6	Interesting to notice that alternative to DCT has been considered in video compression. Really wish you the best in bringing up your codec.

10th March 2015, 19:11	#39 \| Link
mandarinka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 729	Alternatives to DCT have been considered for the last 20 years, they just never work :>

10th March 2015, 19:30	#40 \| Link
Sulik Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 216	Well, technically, HEVC is using an alternative to DCT in intra modes, it's using a DST, not a DCT