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23rd February 2018, 07:23 | #1421 | Link |
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I have another question. I am doing Full 3D SBS and need to have my file resolution be 3840 x 2160 after compressing instead of 3840 x 1080. Is there a way to achieve this? I realize this is a bit odd since I technically would be scaling the vertical resolution 2x but there is a good reason. I purchased an Nvidia Shield TV which can playback my Full 3D SBS files just fine with hardware acceleration turned off. However, with that setup, it won't playback 4K HDR material, and a bunch of other things without hardware acceleration turned on. In an effort to make this setup user friendly (wife and kids), the only solution I currently have is to change the resolution of my 3D files and keep hardware acceleration turned on. I'm hoping there is some text I can add to the "__ENCODE_3D.cmd" that will do this. I've tried adjusting the SAR to various values, but it still looks at the original resolution of 3840 x 1080.
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23rd February 2018, 11:31 | #1422 | Link | |||
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Sorry, I did not notice this comment.
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BTW, when a movie shot in Cinemascope has no usable 3D-Planes, in addition to the fixed depth it is also often useful to move the subtitles in the bottom black border, just to be sure that they will never enter in the foreground objects. BD3D2MK3D has no tool to move the subtitles in that black area, but it can move the video frame up to enlarge the black bar at the bottom. (See the option in the last tab.) I will probably add a subtitle tool to move the subtitles as well, when I will have some time... Quote:
Yes, you can do that easily to check the x265 encoding options. However, when you know what settings are correct for your movie, you may want to edit also the label of the video stream in the __MUX_3D_OPTIONS file, and the ENCODER_SETTINGS field in the __TAGS_3D.xml file. Although they do not influence the encoding, they are kept in the final MKV file for reference, and should correspond to the encoding parameters really used to encode the final MKV.
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23rd February 2018, 11:58 | #1423 | Link | |
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In __ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs, you will see this: Code:
# Build Side-by-Side stream StackHorizontal(Left, Right) AssumeFPS("ntsc_film") Code:
# Build Side-by-Side stream StackHorizontal(Left, Right) LanczosResize(3840, 2160) AssumeFPS("ntsc_film") And don't ask me what SAR and PAR you have to use so that your player will display correctly the movie encoded in that unusual resolution. As I've explained previously, there is no established standard for the aspect ratios for 3D SBS and T&B, and the values to use may depend of your player. Just remember to change the SAR in __ENCODE_3D.cmd and the --aspect-ratio field in __MUX_3D_OPTIONS. I suppose that you can use 0:16/9 in __MUX_3D_OPTIONS, as it's the AR of the full-SBS as well as the final, decoded movie. The SAR in __ENCODE_3D.cmd is more difficult to figure out. Anyway, it might be a good idea to check the movie with several players. Remember that you will probably not use the same player during your whole life! Good luck!
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r0lZ PgcEdit homepage (hosted by VideoHelp) BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV Last edited by r0lZ; 23rd February 2018 at 12:12. |
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23rd February 2018, 16:28 | #1424 | Link |
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Fantastic! Exactly what I was hoping to do. Yeah, I'll be testing various SAR values so that my players playback correctly (currently Roku Premiere+ and Nvidia Shield). And I agree, I won't use the same player my whole life. Thanks for this.
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2nd March 2018, 02:59 | #1425 | Link | |
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Thank you r0lZ, this tool is wonderful. I've ripped my disc library in the past but have always had to keep the 3D discs out as an exception to that. Now I can finally include my 3D titles as well.
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2nd March 2018, 10:54 | #1426 | Link | |
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Thanks for the thanks, and welcome to the Doom9 forums, Actionable Mango.
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Again, it's a problem related to the lack of a consistent 3D video standard, as it should be possible to add the necessary "left/right view" information in the header of the subtitle stream to inform the 3D players, but it's not the case. So, currently, muxing two different streams for the two eyes is useless. The player will pick only one, and display it in 2D. However, like for full-SBS, it is possible to burn the subtitle stream on the image, during the encoding of the video stream (with the option on the last tab of BD3D2MK3D). It's not perfect, but that works with all players, and you can be sure that the subtitles will appear exactly where and when they should. The price to pay is that there is no way to hide the subtitles, for example when you play the audio in your native language.
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2nd March 2018, 23:54 | #1427 | Link |
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According to the LG OLED65E6P manual, TAB, SBS, and Frame Sequential are all supported 3D modes.
So far I've tested full resolution TAB and SBS, and both work and look great. Both automatically trigger 3D mode. I did this test with two different movies, so I cannot directly compare file size or quality. Later tonight my latest encode test will be done, which is full resolution Frame Sequential, so I can test to see if that works too. Of the three other posters in this thread with LG 4K 3D TVs, I've noticed you all do full resolution TAB. Why is everyone using TAB over SBS or Frame Sequential? Is it just a coincidence? Is TAB better in some way (higher quality? more compatible with other players? smaller size? future proof? it provides balance to the universe?) |
3rd March 2018, 11:01 | #1428 | Link |
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LG TVs (HD and UHD) use always passive glasses that filter the polarized light. That means that they emit half the pixels with a particular polarization, and the other half with the opposite polarization. As far as I know, all LG TVs are based on the same model. One line of pixel contains the pixels for the left view, the next one for the right view and so on. (I have read somewhere that LG is now able to offer full resolution for the two eyes, but theoretically, it's impossible.) Therefore, it seems logical to use Half-TAB instead of Half-SBS, as there is exactly the same number of line for the left and right eyes in the encoded video and in the screen. You encode 1920x540 and you see exactly that. If you use Half-SBS, half the pixels are not at the right position and are useless. You see a 960x540 image.
However, if that logic is correct for Half-TAB, IMO there is absolutely no reason to prefer Full-TAB over Full-SBS or FS. Since the video resolution is full anyway, the passive HD TV will throw away half the resolution regardless of the 3D frame packing. But the habit to prefer TAB over SBS is well anchored, and there are certainly many web sites that continue to pretend, probably wrongly, that Full-TAB gives a better quality with all kind of LG TVs. I don't know how 3D UHD LG TVs react to Half-TAB or Half-SBS. IMO, the quality loss when using Half-SBS is probably minimal, if not completely absent, but I'm not sure. On the other hand, Half-SBS is largely considered better for active 3D TVs. I don't know why, as with active glasses, all pixels are used to display the left and right views. But it is a fact that Half-TAB gives less good results on my Samsung HD TV. Again, I think that Full-SBS/TAB/FS are strictly equivalent.
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r0lZ PgcEdit homepage (hosted by VideoHelp) BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV Last edited by r0lZ; 3rd March 2018 at 11:25. |
3rd March 2018, 11:09 | #1429 | Link | |
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Did you encode in h265 or h264? BD3D2MK3D sets the 3D information in the MKV header anyway, and when encoding in h264, also in the video stream. As far as I know, only x264 "understands" the --frame-packing option, so currently, that information is not set in the video stream itself when it is encoded in h265. My Samsung TV switches to the correct 3D mode only when the information is present in the video stream, and ignore the MKV header, and therefore it cannot display the h265 videos in 3D automatically. :-( I would like to know if LG takes the 3D info in the MKV header into account. Or does it detect the 3D mode with the 3D string in the file name?
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r0lZ PgcEdit homepage (hosted by VideoHelp) BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV Last edited by r0lZ; 3rd March 2018 at 11:22. |
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5th March 2018, 19:49 | #1430 | Link | |
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I encoded in H264. I had started up an H265 encode, but the estimated time was over 100 hours, lol. I have a Mac Mini, which is a low end computer, and in my case even worse because it's a 6-year old model with the slowest CPU option. With H264 I can do 1 movie a day. I don't know that the LG is aware of the filename since I am using Plex, not an LG app, to play the content. I'm not sure the Plex server even gives the filename to the Plex client, much less the LG TV itself. But, for what it's worth, Plex installed on the TV automatically switches to 3D mode, and Plex installed on the AppleTV does not. On the AppleTV 3D still works via Plex, but it must be manually activated. I don't know if that gives you the clue you are looking for. I really appreciate that you put this tool together. I would like to contribute back in some way. If there are any tests you'd like me to do, I'd be genuinely happy to do them. Just keep in mind it will be slow getting back to you, considering my computing power. Tests to try:
I have to admit, I'm not super excited about doing the H.265 test since it will use my computer for 4 days. I also have a very low end budget laptop ($280) that has an Apollo Lake Celeron supposedly with hardware acceleration for HEVC, both encoding and decoding. Will that hardware acceleration work with BD3D2MK3D? If so, I could switch to that and perhaps H.265 testing could potentially be much faster. Is there a freely available file somewhere with short-length 3D content that I could use for these tests? All I have as sources are my movie discs which are quite long. Last edited by Actionable Mango; 5th March 2018 at 19:52. |
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5th March 2018, 20:25 | #1431 | Link |
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Thanks for the info. It's already very informative.
I know that encoding with x265 is much slower than with x264, but take in mind that you can use a faster preset and still get a much smaller file than with a slow x264 preset. The compression ratio of h265 is extraordinary! However, do it only if you think that it's useful for you. I don't need much testing. Unfortunately, x264 and x265 do not use hardware acceleration. According to their development teams, it is not possible to obtain a good quality with the encoder algorithms necessary to use the acceleration, so they prefer to do it the slow way. To do quick tests, I suggest to encode a Pixar short. On all 3DBDs with Pixar animated films, there is a short movie, usually excellent, and well suited to do quick tests. If you don't have a Pixar DB, you can also encode a 3D menu or another short clip. Use the Show All 3D Playlists option in the first tab of BD3D2MK3D to see if there are short clips hidden by default because they are too short to be interesting. If you want, I can also post the iso of the short Netblender demo BD somewhere (not officially available any more), but although it's a demo, it is probably copyrighted, and I'm not sure I can.
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5th March 2018, 20:37 | #1432 | Link | ||
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Interestingly, since Plex on the AppleTV requires manually switching to 3D mode, I cannot use FS files there. This is because LG's "manually switch to 3D mode" has TAB and SBS choices only, no choice for FS. Therefore, playback from Plex on the AppleTV is limited to TAB/SBS (and I assume would be the same for any external media player). Quote:
To be clear, these are not hard-coded subtitles. They are the default settings (3D only, Blu-ray SUP, 0 depth added) and they can be toggled on and off during playback. I'm pretty happy! I now have a solution that automatically triggers 3D mode, is full resolution, and I can select optional audio tracks and subtitle tracks. Thanks again for your tool, and to the others who contributed to it as well. |
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6th March 2018, 10:19 | #1433 | Link | ||
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FS is not supported by most players, so IMO, since Full-SBS and Full-TAB are well supported, you should use one of those formats.
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You can verify easily that the subtitles are in 2D if you have a look at the filenames in the project. You will see, for each subtitle, something like: Code:
00200.track_4610.Fra.2D.sup 00200.track_4610.Fra.sup If you really want to check if your player supports the 3D subtitles in any full resolution, you should convert them manually to 3D (with the Subtitles Tools menu). Of course, it doesn't make much sense to convert them to Half-SBS or Half-TAB, so you will probably want to convert them to FS as 2 different streams. You will have to mux them manually (or edit the __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file and launch the __MUX_3D.cmd to rebuild the final MKV file). I don't know how it will be possible to inform the player that it must use the 2 streams at the same time, and what stream is for the left or right eye. If Plex is really smart, perhaps it is possible to simply include "left" or "right" in the label of the stream? But honestly, I'm almost sure that they will be recognised as 2 independent 2D streams.
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r0lZ PgcEdit homepage (hosted by VideoHelp) BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV Last edited by r0lZ; 6th March 2018 at 10:21. |
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6th March 2018, 19:18 | #1434 | Link | |
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I've run the filename test by stripping all the 3D information from the filename. The TV still starts 3D mode automatically.
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You are right they are 2D, but that is not important for my temporary purpose. If I needed subtitles on all the time, such as for a foreign film, I'd burn them in as you suggested earlier. |
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12th March 2018, 22:01 | #1435 | Link |
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I've done two more tests.
I will try an H.265 SBS test after that. If there is anything else you'd like me to try, please let me know. My current 6-year old base model Mac Mini is very slow for this work. I might look into getting a new computer for Plex hosting and video encoding. Will the encoding speed scale well with additional cores? For example if I get a quad core of a certain speed will it be about twice as fast as a dual core of the same speed? |
13th March 2018, 10:39 | #1436 | Link | |||||
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Thanks for the tests!
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Note also that if you buy a new computer witrh a modern Intel CPU, you will benefit of the hardware acceleration of the Intel MVC decoder, used by the avisynth script during the encoding to build the two views that will be encoded by x265 or x265. The benefit is not immense, but it exists.
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14th March 2018, 11:38 | #1438 | Link |
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hi
I get a lot of crashes with x264, sometimes at the very end of the encode (seems completed but the exe crashes) and sometimes in the middle. I did however update x264 to a newer version than the old 2851 that comes in the pack. I'm unsure if that's the cause or the switch to FRIM for default decoder. Also the demux/project making seems to take a lot longer now but I could be wrong. I had one take over 2h on an SSD. It did have a lot of subtitles to go through but it wasn't the first time and I can't recall it taking so long. |
14th March 2018, 12:25 | #1439 | Link | |
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However, can you confirm that your LG TVs work fine in FULL-SBS or FULL-TAB mode? I know that they work correctly in Half-SBS and Half-TAB.
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r0lZ PgcEdit homepage (hosted by VideoHelp) BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV Last edited by r0lZ; 14th March 2018 at 12:41. |
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14th March 2018, 12:37 | #1440 | Link | |
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Indeed, the conversion of the subtitles to 3D takes a lot of time and sometimes (but rarely) it is necessary to do an additional pass to convert them properly. Also, converting lossless audio (especially DTS-HD-Master) to AC3 and especially AAC is very slow. Otherwise, the speed of the demux (the longest operation) has certainly not changed, since the demux is still done with the same version of tsMuxeR. If the demux takes really longer, I would suspect a problem related to your hardware, the drivers, or Windows.
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