PgcEdit v0.3.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by jsoto
Do I need to change post into pre commands if using IFOEdit's delete playback method?. I believe not.

Delete playback, to me, works best if the PGC's video content doesn't have any buttons. e.g. FBI warnings. I tried to DP all menus with buttons in a VTS Language Unit and got errors during play. I DP'd a Title and that just turned into a dummy PGC and you know this is illegal. It's at this point that I would convert Post to Pre Commands for bypassing the Titles.

What I'm going to do is:
- VobBlanker will support IFOEdit's deleting playback method in menus domain (but deleting also the required cells in the menu VOB )

Again, this would work if the menu doesn't have buttons.

Blanking will also be supported in menu domain.

Again with the buttons issue.

Ask the user to confirm deleting playback in the case of cell commands exist.

confirmations are always good to have.

- Split the current "Change post into precommands" check (this apply to menu and title blanking procedures) in two different checks. Let's say "Safely change post into precommands" (This check will not change post into pre if cell commands exist) and "Always change post into precommands".

As a newbie, it would be confusing and intimidating on the "Safely" and "Always" words without justification. Personally, I like the way that PgcEdit retains the original Post Commands during conversion. This is in the case that I would link to a program in my pre commands and then end up in my Post Commands after play.

[jsoto]

@2COOL
Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs or you need to explore the Navpacks in the VOBs?

I like the way that PgcEdit retains the original Post Commands during conversion

I've to confess I'm not familiar with pgcEdit, mainly because my knowledge in the virtual machine (commads and registers) is very limited, but I'll look into it.

jsoto

[r0lZ]

- Split the current "Change post into precommands" check (this apply to menu and title blanking procedures) in two different checks. Let's say "Safely change post into precommands" (This check will not change post into pre if cell commands exist) and "Always change post into precommands".

"Safely change post into precommands" is what is called in PgcEdit "Kill playback if there are no cell commands in the PGC" and "Always change post into precommands" is called "Kill playback unconditionally". The last option, "Don't kill playback" let the replaced cell play (PgcEdit is able to replace the whole VOB with a blank cell or an imported cell to blank all PGCs in the domain, like TitleSetBlanker).

"Completely remove the menu VOB file" will remove all references to the menu VOB in the IFO, changing all menu PGCs to dummies. The VMGM_C_ADT and VMGM_VOBU_ADMAP or VTSM_C_ADT and VTSM_VOBU_ADMAP tables are totally removed.

[r0lZ]

Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs or you need to explore the Navpacks in the VOBs?

Unfortunately no, although it is possible to guess there are buttons by analysing the VM commands.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by jsoto
Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs or you need to explore the Navpacks in the VOBs?

You can in the NAV packs. Use VOBEdit on a menu VOB and click on [X]Buttons at the bottom. Click on a Navpack and scroll down to [009e]number of buttons. I know you are not a newbie at parsing the VOBs since you do it in VIDChanger.

[2COOL]

@rolZ

Originally posted by r0lZ
Unfortunately no, although it is possible to guess there are buttons by analysing the VM commands.

I'm surprised that you made this comment as you have menu button previewing in PgcEdit.

[r0lZ]

I'm surprised that you made this comment as you have menu button previewing in PgcEdit.

Yes, but the buttons infos are extracted from the VOB, with the external program button_dump.exe (sources availables on my homepage).
The question was

Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs...

The answer is resolutely: NO!

[r0lZ]

Bug in PgcEdit 0.3.4 source archive

A file was missing in PgcEdit v0.3.4 source archives (pgcedit_source.zip and PgcEdit_source_0.3.4.zip).
This omission may prevent to open PgcEdit.
A new, fixed source archive is available on my homepage.

[r0lZ]

I forgot to say Thanks to the beta testers 2COOL, $$$, Damien and Marek, to Sweetness who did the toolbar icons, to Tobi for his german guide... and to everybody for the enthousiasm and encouragements.

Originally posted by jorel
thanks for the new version r0lZ.
can you do a guide with pictures(like the japanese guide)for "simple mortals" ? it's hard for "us"(simple mortals) to start.

hy r0lZ!


PgcEdit is growing faster but i still don't know how to use for more that i read details in this thread.
i still can't read in japanese and german and the 2COOL's (Third party guide) is so advanced for newbys like me!

you really don't will build a simple english guide ?

[2COOL]

@jorel

Originally posted by jorel
the 2COOL's (Third party guide) is so advanced for newbys like me!

I wrote only one PgcEdit guide so far, How to Completely Blank Out a Titleset (VTS) Using PgcEdit, and thought it was very comprehensible at a newbie level. Can you tell me which step(s) you are having problems with?

Originally posted by 2COOL
@jorel
I wrote only one PgcEdit guide so far, How to Completely Blank Out a Titleset (VTS) Using PgcEdit, and thought it was very comprehensible at a newbie level. Can you tell me which step(s) you are having problems with?

i know that you wrote only one PgcEdit guide...
then, i know less than newbys my friend!
i don't know how to start using powerfull tools like that without a simple guide(with shots if possible), showing how to start.
2 years ago, i had problems starting to use dvd2svcd(powerfull and great)and without the guides and the helpers i never will learn how to use it and get cool results in my encodes!
this is the point: how to start with PgcEdit...first steps(or something like this)for dumbs(with poor english).

you know: newby is hard to help but help dumb is "impossible"!

thanks for your kindness and friendship 2COOL!

[r0lZ]

It's difficult to write a guide to introduce PgcEdit. The knowledge required to use PgcEdit (or other low levels tools like IfoEdit, VOBEdit, or the Pro options of DVDRemake Pro) is the DVD structure, and how to program with the VM commands. A knowledge of any programming language is also a good starting point, although not really necessary.

Have a look at the DVD-Replica web site, and try to understand how pieces are put together in a DVD, and learn about the most used VM commands. Then, read some guides (2COOL's guides using IfoEdit are useful, too). The most important is to try to understand what you are doing when you follow a guide. You will soon become an expert!

As I said elsewhere, I do not have much time to write guides, and I prefer to add some newbies-friendly macros in PgcEdit. And you know my english is not good enough. Maybe I'll try to write an introduction to PgcEdit, but don't expect this before all the functionnalities I want to see in PgcEdit are implemented, and that is still a verry big work.

I'm sure there will be other PgcEdit guides soon here...

[EDIT:] Have a look at this thread. Although it is not really a guide, I tried to explain how to add a Title menu to a DVDShrink reauthored 4 episodes DVD, while keeping the ability to skip to the next episode with the Title button. Even if you don't need this, try to do it as an exercise.

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by 2COOL

As a newbie, it would be confusing and intimidating on the "Safely" and "Always" words without justification.

@jsoto
Both options appear safe, but for both to show up would be confusing. How about listing just one [like 1.4.0.1] with a popup warning, when applicable, saying sth like: "Existing cell commands will not execute. Do you want to proceed?"

Originally posted by 2COOL

Personally, I like the way that PgcEdit retains the original Post Commands during conversion. This is in the case that I would link to a program in my pre commands and then end up in my Post Commands after play.

@2COOL
Can you clarify that point?. Say if I linked my PGC_1 precommand to another PGC_2, is the sequence of executions as follows:
1. PGC_1 Pre
2. PGC_2 Pre
3. PGC_2 Post
4. PGC_1 Post
Until now, I thought PGC_1 Post would not execute after a linking.

@r0lZ
What is the benefit of converting Post to Pre with your spcecial way?. In my IFOedit hacking time, I knew adding commands to PGC Table requires update of address pointers in all kind of places including mock strippings et al. I must confess I never dared try PGCedit "Kill Playback" feature for fear of losing playability. PGCedit really possesses many powerful [and thus complex] features even for me. To really reach a larger user group, you may want to provide a Lite/Advanced interface option a la DvdRemake.

Thanks everyone!

[2COOL]

@voo_doo99

Originally posted by voo_doo99
Can you clarify that point?. Say if I linked my PGC_1 precommand to another PGC_2, is the sequence of executions as follows:
1. PGC_1 Pre
2. PGC_2 Pre
3. PGC_2 Post
4. PGC_1 Post
Until now, I thought PGC_1 Post would not execute after a linking.

That's not what I had in mind but I will clarify. The way I did it in my guide, the Number of Pre and Post commands were edited. This resulted in having no Post commands. Now, here's a PGC Command table I'll use for an example. When I mentioned about linking to programs, I was referring to the LinkPGC command.

********** pre commands:
[61 00 00 00 00 06 00 00]   1  Set gprm(0) =(mov) gprm(6) 
[00 A2 00 00 00 01 00 00]   2  if ( gprm(0) == 1 ".." ) then { Break } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 02 00 02]   3  if ( gprm(0) == 2 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 2 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 03 00 03]   4  if ( gprm(0) == 3 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 3 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 04 00 04]   5  if ( gprm(0) == 4 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 4 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 05 00 05]   6  if ( gprm(0) == 5 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 5 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 06 00 06]   7  if ( gprm(0) == 6 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 6 } 
********** post commands:
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00]   1  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1 
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D]   1  LinkTailPGC

Now, if I used my manual editing Title bypassing guide, I would've gotten this afterwards.

********** pre commands:
[61 00 00 00 00 06 00 00]   1  Set gprm(0) =(mov) gprm(6) 
[00 A2 00 00 00 01 00 00]   2  if ( gprm(0) == 1 ".." ) then { Break } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 02 00 02]   3  if ( gprm(0) == 2 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 2 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 03 00 03]   4  if ( gprm(0) == 3 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 3 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 04 00 04]   5  if ( gprm(0) == 4 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 4 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 05 00 05]   6  if ( gprm(0) == 5 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 5 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 06 00 06]   7  if ( gprm(0) == 6 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 6 } 
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00]   8  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1 
********** post commands:
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D]   1  LinkTailPGC

Here's the scenario. Pre Command 3 will be true and Program 2 will play. But, Program 2 has a cell command of 1. So at the end of Program 2 play, cell command #1 will execute and we will be jumping to the Post commands.

But now, we don't have any Post commands with Jump/Link/Call commands available! Post command #1 is now a Pre Command. So, what happens now? DVD stoppage, due to break in navigations. You'll also get errors if Pre command #2 is true without an assigned cell command since there is no Post commands.

That's why when PgcEdit does the conversion (kill playback), it leaves the original Post commands alone, makes a copy, and converts it to Pre commands. Also, a leading NOP command is added as shown below. Now after Program 2 plays, it will make its way to VMGM PGC 10.

********** pre commands:
[61 00 00 00 00 06 00 00]   1  Set gprm(0) =(mov) gprm(6) 
[00 A1 00 00 00 01 00 08]   2  if ( gprm(0) == 1 ".." ) then { Goto line 8 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 02 00 02]   3  if ( gprm(0) == 2 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 2 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 03 00 03]   4  if ( gprm(0) == 3 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 3 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 04 00 04]   5  if ( gprm(0) == 4 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 4 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 05 00 05]   6  if ( gprm(0) == 5 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 5 } 
[20 A6 00 00 00 06 00 06]   7  if ( gprm(0) == 6 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 6 } 
[00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]   8  NOP 
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00]   9  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1  //copy
********** post commands:
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00]   1  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1 
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D]   1  LinkTailPGC

Does this make any sense to you now?

@rolZ

With what I've shown above. Your disclaimer...

Warning: there are cell commands in this PGC!
The cell commands will not be executed anymore.

...doesn't apply. The cell commands will still execute. With that said, shouldn't we now have two kill playback options?

( ) Kill playback.
( ) Don't kill playback.

What do you think?

[jsoto]

Does this make any sense to you now?

Absolutely. You've shown a clear scenario.

But there are others (more simple or the same if precommand 2 is true) were the cell commands will not be executed anymore, so the disclaimer still apply...

@rolZ
What do you do if reach the limit of 128 commands?

jsoto

[r0lZ]

@voo_doo99
Benefit of converting Post to Pre with my spcecial way: As brilliantly explained by 2COOL, it is safer to leave the post commands in place. Also, the NOP command that is added become the target of all BREAK pre commands (changed to GOTOs) as you can see in the 2COOL example. Therefore, if you want to undo the kill playback, you have to delete all copied commands, after but not including the NOP. Easy.

I knew adding commands to PGC Table requires update of address pointers in all kind of places including mock strippings et al.

The addresses are updated by PgcEdit when you save the DVD. As you may know, if you add many commands, the number of sectors needed for the table may increase, but IfoEdit doesn't take care about that problen, and you end up with a totally bugged IFO. PgcEdit rebuilds totally the IFO by concatenating all tables together, then it updates the table pointers and the VTS sectors.
IMHO, changing the number of commands never require a mock strip: the VOB file is not changed.

To really reach a larger user group, you may want to provide a Lite/Advanced interface option a la DvdRemake.

Yes, I am aware of that problem. But, as explained elsewhere, my first intention was to provide an easy way to edit the IFO's VM commands, not more. So, I writed PgcEdit in Tcl/Tk, which is a language really not suitable for sophisticated previews or complex VOB parsing. So, consider PgcEdit as a low-level software, for experienced users (something like an assembler), intended to supplement IfoEdit, which is far more complex. However, I will probably add some high level functions for novice users (in the Macros menu).
A Lite/Advanced option may be the way to go...


@2COOL
You're true. A cell commands may be played in some cases.

With that said, shouldn't we now have two kill playback options?

Please note that the macro "Kill Playback" always kill it, even if there are cell commands.
The triple option is used only when killing playback as part of the "Blank Out all PGCs in Domain" function. In this situation, you may have 3 scenarios: Always kill playback, Never kill playback, or kill playback whenever it is always safe (PGCs w/o cell cmds), and don't kill playback when it is not always safe (PGCs with cell cmds). This last option is useful if there are some PGCs with and other without cell cmds. Obviously, this option is not useful if there is only one PGC, or if there are cell cmds in all PGCs, or if there are no cell cmds in all PGCs. Also, this option is the default, because it is always safe to use it.


@jsoto

What do you do if reach the limit of 128 commands?

Well, I don't test this situation from within the macro (although it is not possible to manually Add or Paste commands when the limit is reached). Of course, this may be a problem, but honestly I have never encountered a PGC with so much commands... Maybe I have to add the check, and in that case delete the post commands.

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@voo_doo99
Does this make any sense to you now?

@2COOL
Clear as a bell, thank you. Leave it to you to figure out all the complex scenarios. There is good reason why I do post-stripping/blanking preview with WinDVD to catch the "gotchas".

@r0lZ
Thank you for the details on "Kill Playback", I need to use it more . And I love your Command Editor/Builder, it's the best; one can really do some fancy navigation with it.

Alas, the PGC Selector is getting crowded, may I suggest that some detail like "dummy" to be left out for better reading, there seems to be enough details to differentiate them from the others. The menu "0:00" does not offer much unless it can go down to the sub-second, I think putting VobID here would help IFOedit stripping. And speaking of IFOedit+PgcEdit, it will help if the listing terms are more similar to each other, say: "VTSM_01_LU_1(en) _1 (ID:1) Root", might even save some spaces . Anyhow, its my 2 cents, please dont mind. Thanks.

[r0lZ]

Alas, the PGC Selector is getting crowded, may I suggest that some detail like "dummy" to be left out for better reading, there seems to be enough details to differentiate them from the others.

You're the first asking to remove informations in the PGC Selector. I added more and more infos here because users wanted them. What do I have to do now? A poll?
Please note that there are VOB and Cell IDs for all cells of the PGC. Listing them all is therefore not possible. And double-clicking on the PGC entry to see them all is not really difficult.
However, I agree that the lisibility of the PGC Selector is not perfect. Maybe I'll try to implement your 'underscore' idea.

Thanks for your apprecaition on the Command Editor

[2COOL]

Originally posted by voo_doo99
@2COOL
Clear as a bell, thank you. Leave it to you to figure out all the complex scenarios.

No problemo! Just play your demo!

Alas, the PGC Selector is getting crowded, may I suggest that some detail like "dummy" to be left out for better reading, there seems to be enough details to differentiate them from the others.

Well actually, it was my suggestion to have some indicator that the PGC, in question, was a dummy PGC. People would get confused seeing a PGC with 0b (zero buttons) and not knowing that video content exists. e.g. FBI warnings. A dummy PGC doesn't have video content but its PGC Command table is utilized for better navigations. I think I suggested that the indicator "dummy" be in the parsing dumps but rolZ decided to also put it in the PGC selection list anyway. No problems with me! There are somethings I can lived with.