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Old 10th February 2017, 08:28   #42381  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atcmvr View Post
No problem with turning it off, but obviously I would like to avoid doing so every time I watch something if it wasn't really necessary. Also, as an aside, render times ought to be low 30's, correct? Been trying to keep it max 32.
You shouldn't have to disable G-Sync in general, just disable it for MPC-HC... there should be a setting in nvidia control panel, und manage 3d settings... go to the program settings tab, add mpc-hc if it isn't already there and there should be a setting where you can switch from g-sync to Fixed Refresh, or v-sync or whatever they call it these days... unless they changed that, just try it and see what madVR reports... of course if you want to be 100% sure that it's not affecting output, just disable it when you're watching video... there's probably a way to make a shortcut for that..

for 23.976fps video, render times need to be under 41ms


Quote:
Originally Posted by atcmvr View Post
Basically unsure as to what setting is best. 24hz, frame drops, no judder(at least madvr says there shouldn't be any), 144 hz, less frequent frame drops, no judder, 165hz, no frame drops, but judder(though again, not sure I can notice it), etc. The ideal I assume is neither happening.
Best setting is v-sync, 23.976Hz or a multiple of 23.976Hz...
try to get as close to it as you can via custom resolution...

e.g. I'm at 23.97564Hz, madVR reports 1 dropped frame in 40min (it fluctuates between 40-50min), which is good enough for me..
if you set solid 24Hz, you will get 1 frame repeat every ~45 seconds, which is obviously not ok , that 0.024Hz makes a difference if you don't want judder...

if you get close enough to 23.976Hz or a multiple of it, you don't need FRC and you won't have judder (no dropped or repeated frames)

Last edited by Q-the-STORM; 10th February 2017 at 08:32.
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Old 10th February 2017, 09:39   #42382  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
here some screens:

http://filehorst.de/d/bpvwgDoI
the BD screens are from "low" bit rate (>20 mbit) VC-1 BD there is sometimes some colored noise around the lines
Very nice - thank you!
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:50   #42383  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-the-STORM View Post
You shouldn't have to disable G-Sync in general, just disable it for MPC-HC... there should be a setting in nvidia control panel, und manage 3d settings... go to the program settings tab, add mpc-hc if it isn't already there and there should be a setting where you can switch from g-sync to Fixed Refresh, or v-sync or whatever they call it these days... unless they changed that, just try it and see what madVR reports... of course if you want to be 100% sure that it's not affecting output, just disable it when you're watching video... there's probably a way to make a shortcut for that..

for 23.976fps video, render times need to be under 41ms
I use an AMD RX 480 with madVR and Bluesky FRC. Bluesky FRC creates a perfectly judder free smooth motion. FRC takes an 23.976Hz or 24Hz movie to 59.9..Hz or 60.0..HZ. This is the input for madVR. In this case, the render time need to be under 11 ms to avoid dropped frame. Without FRC the render times need to be below 41ms, but then I experience judder. Thus, with FRC I can use NGU medium and without FRC I can use NGU high with some more enhancements. I have two questions about this.
  1. Could it work and is it possible to allow Bluesky FRC to work after madVR?
  2. How can I create judder-free motion without FRC or SVP? I’ve tried CRU, but this does not work well on AMD. Also, I don’t know how to set the custom resolution on Crimson. I get incompatible settings errors.
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:58   #42384  |  Link
pose
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HillieSan, why not just use madVR's smooth motion?
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Old 10th February 2017, 13:19   #42385  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
[*]How can I create judder-free motion without FRC or SVP? I’ve tried CRU, but this does not work well on AMD. [/LIST]
Don't you get good 23,975-23,976 hz out of the box with your amd card?

I use a AMD RX480 and I get near perfect 23,975 which will lead to dropped frames every 2-8 hours, which is good for every movie... This is why I use an AMD card and not my GTX 1060 from my second computer for HTPC usage. With AMD I dont have to use custom resolutions. With the nvidia card i got dropped frames every 20-30 seconds without a custom resolution. With custom resolution it gets near the amd solution, but then I can't use nvidias 3D mode with d3d11 anymore.
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Old 10th February 2017, 13:28   #42386  |  Link
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@madshi:


is NGUpixart mainly for cgi and anime or is it good for real movies too?

Whats the main difference between NGU and NGUpixart?
NGU pixart is a "smoother" version which should be better for low quality sources, right?! Will there be a sharpening option for the pixart version?
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Old 10th February 2017, 13:28   #42387  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
Don't you get good 23,975-23,976 hz out of the box with your amd card?

I use a AMD RX480 and I get near perfect 23,975 which will lead to dropped frames every 2-8 hours, which is good for every movie... This is why I use an AMD card and not my GTX 1060 from my second computer for HTPC usage. With AMD I dont have to use custom resolutions. With the nvidia card i got dropped frames every 20-30 seconds without a custom resolution. With custom resolution it gets near the amd solution, but then I can't use nvidias 3D mode with d3d11 anymore.
Without FRC I get real judder, but not dropped frames. Same problem with powerDVD. Perhaps there is a setting I got wrong?
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Old 10th February 2017, 16:40   #42388  |  Link
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@Sunset1982

Guess what? I've disabled Bluesky FRC and tested madVR with MPC-BE on my new TV. The TV switched to 23p and everything is smooth. On the projector (JVC X5000) however it is not smooth. It turned out that the pixel panels operate on 120 Hz and for this the Clear Motion option is useful. The Clear Motion option is not needed for 60 Hz input. I had set this option to off (Bluesky FRC creates 60Hz input). Once I set it to high, the motion is smooth for 23p :-).

So, I set NGU to very high (Luma) and it works :-) Chrome is set to normal.

I am glad that the AMD RX 480 is doing its job just fine.
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Old 11th February 2017, 00:41   #42389  |  Link
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Hi, I have a couple of questions:

Why with MadVR, when I take a screenshot in MPC HC from a 4K file, it captures it in my monitor resolution instead of the native resolution 3840x2160? How can I change that?

Also can I capture a SDR converted screenshot (HDR source file)??

Thanks a lot!
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Old 11th February 2017, 02:55   #42390  |  Link
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Am I the only one getting complete player freeze when I try to seek in DVD movies using madVR as video renderer?
Going from one chapter to the next/previous works but when I seek manually in the video, the player freezes completely.
I tried every possible combination of filters available (LAV viddec, FFdshow viddec, CyberlinkPDVD8 viddec, and the same for audiodec), and I can reproduce 100% of the time whenever madVR is in use. No such issue with the other renderers VMR7/9/Overlay.
I'm pretty sure this worked fine in the past but I haven't played a DVD in a while so no clue when it got broken (pertaining to madVR version).
Can anyone reproduce?
Edit: created a log with madvr_debug, I start dvd playback, let it play for 2 seconds, then seek: the player freezes (becomes completely unresponsive) from there the video still plays for about 20 seconds before the player auto-restarts [guard dog feature when ZP stops responding])
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Last edited by TheShadowRunner; 11th February 2017 at 03:16.
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Old 11th February 2017, 15:45   #42391  |  Link
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Are you going to update or remove adaptive sharpen from madVR?
There were some changes:
https://github.com/bacondither/Adapt...commits/master

From wikipedia: DirectShow technology is intended to be replaced by Media Foundation ...
Is there a Media Foundation based media player in development on Doom9?
And what about madVR?
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Old 11th February 2017, 16:41   #42392  |  Link
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Madshi, any news about updating 3D mode so that 3D subtitles are drawn correctly with all 3D movies?
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Old 11th February 2017, 18:14   #42393  |  Link
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I was wondering which mode is better for an old card like mine (GTX 550 TI 1 gb) - several frames in advance or use backbuffer?
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Old 11th February 2017, 18:22   #42394  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
is NGUpixart mainly for cgi and anime or is it good for real movies too?

Whats the main difference between NGU and NGUpixart?
NGU pixart is a "smoother" version which should be better for low quality sources, right?! Will there be a sharpening option for the pixart version?
The main feature of NGU pixart is a strong anti-aliasing effect, which reduces aliasing (jaggies / stair stepping) in the source. Because of that characteristic, NGU pixart is relatively soft - at least when compared to standard NGU.

My recommendation is to use standard NGU for high quality sources, and to use NGU pixart for aliased sources like old computer game recordings and low quality anime. You may also find it useful for low quality film/video sources, but that's your decision. Basically NGU pixart is intended to be a 1:1 NNEDI3 replacement. I was hoping to replace NNEDI3 with something that has a better quality per watt ratio, and doesn't need OpenCL to be fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
Why with MadVR, when I take a screenshot in MPC HC from a 4K file, it captures it in my monitor resolution instead of the native resolution 3840x2160? How can I change that?
How are you taking the screenshot? By pressing the PrintScreen key? Or by using MPC-HC's screenshot functionality? By pressing PrintScreen, you're getting exactly what madVR draws to your screen. If you use MPC-HC's screenshot functionality, you should get the source frame in the original resolution. Except maybe when you're using DXVA downscaling which may screw things up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterXDTV View Post
Also can I capture a SDR converted screenshot (HDR source file)??
I'm not sure right now at which point in time exactly in madVR's rendering pipeline the screenshot is made. Could be before or after HDR -> SDR conversion, I don't know. The surest way to make sure you get the SDR converted screenshot is to use PrintScreen, but obviously that will capture what is drawn to your monitor, not the original video resolution.

Screenshot functionality will be revisited in some future version, but it's not a priority right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
Am I the only one getting complete player freeze when I try to seek in DVD movies using madVR as video renderer?
Going from one chapter to the next/previous works but when I seek manually in the video, the player freezes completely.
I tried every possible combination of filters available (LAV viddec, FFdshow viddec, CyberlinkPDVD8 viddec, and the same for audiodec), and I can reproduce 100% of the time whenever madVR is in use. No such issue with the other renderers VMR7/9/Overlay.
I'm pretty sure this worked fine in the past but I haven't played a DVD in a while so no clue when it got broken (pertaining to madVR version).
Can anyone reproduce?
Edit: created a log with madvr_debug, I start dvd playback, let it play for 2 seconds, then seek: the player freezes (becomes completely unresponsive) from there the video still plays for about 20 seconds before the player auto-restarts [guard dog feature when ZP stops responding])
Have you tried a different media player, just as a test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauma144 View Post
Are you going to update or remove adaptive sharpen from madVR?
Didn't know it was updated, there's no post in the doom9 thread. I suppose I'll update it when I find the time. It doesn't seem to be a dramatic change, though, so I don't think it's important to do that as quickly as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauma144 View Post
From wikipedia: DirectShow technology is intended to be replaced by Media Foundation ...
Is there a Media Foundation based media player in development on Doom9?
And what about madVR?
"intended to be". Haha, maybe by Microsoft. But nobody (important) uses Media Foundation in the real world, at least that I know of.

Whenever there's discussion about a breaking change, the key question is: What do we gain? When going to Media Foundation, the biggest gain we would get is better copy protection. This is a prime example of a big company totally missing what's useful for devs and users.

Furthermore, when Microsoft introduced Media Foundation, they only made it available on their latest OS at the time, but not on older OSs, which was the last nail in the coffin, if a last nail was needed at all. That was even more critical because the latest OS at the time was the big failure which was Windows Vista. OS support is not a problem today, if you're willing to sacrifize Windows XP support, but it's way too late to change now. Again, no real benefit, and we'd lose compatability with every single DirectShow software out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VHT View Post
Madshi, any news about updating 3D mode so that 3D subtitles are drawn correctly with all 3D movies?
That problem is already fixed in my sources. For now you can use the NGU pixart test build which already has the fix built in. Of course all future test and release builds will have it also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
I was wondering which mode is better for an old card like mine (GTX 550 TI 1 gb) - several frames in advance or use backbuffer?
If you're in doubt, always use the default.
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Old 11th February 2017, 19:07   #42395  |  Link
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Hello! I've been using madVR for a long time, though I never posted in this forum. I've taken a few comparison shots comparing NGU/NGU pixart/NNEDI3, since I actually had a look at this thread after noticing that NGU really wasn't doing too well with a certain 720x480 anime source compared to NNEDI3, upscaled to 3840x2160.

I've cropped a part of the full upscaled image, since the full-size images are 15-16MB each. NGU/NNEDI were always used for 4x upscaling and I used Jinc AR to go from that to full 3840x2160.
Original:


Chroma NGU vhigh / NGU vhigh & vhigh:


Chroma NGU vhigh / NGU vhigh & normal (4x)


Chroma NNEDI3 128 / NNEDI3 128+32 & vhigh


Chroma NGU pixart vhigh / NGU pixart vhigh & vhigh


As for my opinion, regular NGU is too "smudgy" for this source, this is clearly and immediately visible even while watching, not just staring at screenshots. NGU 4x is actually a bit better in this regard than applying NGU 2x twice. I think for this image NNEDI3 is much better, the configuration I use in practice is NNEDI3 + SuperRes 1 (this screenshot is without SuperRes, just NNEDI3), which is a nice compromise for me. As for NGU pixart, I like it very much! The "smudgy" lines from regular NGU are completely gone and I'd go as far as saying that I prefer it over NNEDI3 in terms of the image output, the outlines of the hand/figers are a bit more pleasant to me. NGU pixart is also faster than the NNEDI3 configuration I used, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a very nice scaler. I can't wait to get it as a regular option in a newer madVR version, since I do still want to use classic NGU for 1080p/720p upscaling.

Not sure if the original image is considered to be bad quality, I can't see any terrible aliasing (there's some on the branch outline) and there really isn't much I can notice in terms of compression artifacts either. In any case I've seen a lot worse.

Anyway, thanks for all the work on madVR madshi!
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Old 11th February 2017, 22:37   #42396  |  Link
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I notice that in the new version of MadVR upscaling 1280x720 resolution videos to 1920x1080 is much more demanding than in the 0.90 versions. Previously I had both luma and chroma at NNEDI13 set to 256.
I use an image of an older version



had all set to 256 (only if scaling factor is 2x or bigger) and there were no dropped frames, though GPU usage was relatively high but never reaching 90+ %.

When I played the same videos of 640x480 resolution, GPU usage was like in the previous versions, though a little lower (50%)

But for 1280x720 videos, with this version the GPU (MSI GTX 1080) reaches its limits at full screen when I set the option: image upscaling: NNEDI13: doubling: 256 neurons, quadrupling:64 neurons
Anything 256 and above has dropped frames. Have to choose doubling: 128 neurons, quadrupling: 32 neurons for video to be playable below 90% GPU usage and no dropped frames

I am confused which options in 0.91.5 equal setting all image doubling options in 256 (with scale 2x) in previous madvr version. As if this version wastes GPU resources in order to upscale semi-HD videos.
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Old 11th February 2017, 22:54   #42397  |  Link
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petran79, set chroma upscaling to NGU medium, image upscaling to NGU very high <-- luma. "Let madVR decide" for everything else.
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Old 11th February 2017, 22:59   #42398  |  Link
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Did something change wrt. to taking screenshots with subtitles from xy-subfilter? I used "optimize for performance" + pressing Alt+2 to render at source resolution before taking a screenshot with subs, using alt+i, but that doesn't seem to work anymore.

Last edited by The 8472; 11th February 2017 at 23:03.
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Old 11th February 2017, 23:04   #42399  |  Link
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Display modes

A little problem that maybe has already been experienced by someone else.

In MadVR settings I try to input the Display modes fit for my videos (some at 24fps, some other at 25, a very few at 30).
As long as I input just "4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p24" I don't have problems: according to the video, it adapts the refresh rate of my tv (a Panasonic 4K led). Only thing, as one might expect, stuttering for the few videos at 30fps.
If I input as well the 30, with the following logic: "4096x2160p30, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p24", the referesh rate goes to 30 also for the 25fps videos....and I don't understand why.
The video card is a Radeon 7700, supporting through HDMI the 4k res at 24hz, at 25 and at 30 too.
MadVR version: 0.91.4.

Do you have an idea of what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks in advance!
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Old 12th February 2017, 01:47   #42400  |  Link
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in the display mode you type in the display mode your TV/GPU support not the type of file you have.

try
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60
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