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Old 10th December 2014, 15:09   #27801  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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are there any known problems on windows 8.1 with certain driver versions and/or a GTX 860M in respect to madvr? I could only get a black screen when I played a video with madvr with 344.75 and 344.65, but I couldnt get any picture with the nvidia card. that video worked fine with the IGP though and also with my GTX760M
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Old 10th December 2014, 18:11   #27802  |  Link
michkrol
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
are there any known problems on windows 8.1 with certain driver versions and/or a GTX 860M in respect to madvr? I could only get a black screen when I played a video with madvr with 344.75 and 344.65, but I couldnt get any picture with the nvidia card. that video worked fine with the IGP though and also with my GTX760M
I remember reports of problems with NVidia Optimus on mobile Maxwells.
A whole thread about such issues can be found here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170937
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Old 10th December 2014, 21:26   #27803  |  Link
leeperry
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Don't bother waiting IMO, get the 750 TI it's boss. Overclock the memory too for a bit of a speed boost too barely changing the heat profile.

I can do 64 neurons with most stuff around 720 and 128 neurons under 480. And if I unlocked it's power constraints I could get a lot more, but I'm happy with how quiet it is and it's performance.
so I got this board, it can't do 64x NNEDI luma + J3 chroma + ED1 so I'm stuck with 32x(which is totally OK ^^), still it easily hits its power limit and has to constantly throttle down(what a failtastic idea to cap a 65W TDP GPU to 38W ), no dropped frames though.

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Agreed, I don't either.. I spent quite some time inspecting the screen close up to find a difference and I could find none, but Leeperry swore he could see a difference)
I did a much closer inspection at the pixel level and although what I did see looked nicer.. but its impact for imperceivable change (on my screen) makes it not worth enabling.
So I recalibrated several times(Sammy 3500:1 AMVA 32"/W7SP1), rolling gamuts, gamma curves, DVI/HDMI and HDMI/HDMI cables, HDMI inputs, messing with retarded options in the nvidia drivers such as scaling and content type, forcing 0-255 using madshi's app, ensuring that I get the right figures using "dispcal -R" and what-not...but I can only very barely see a difference between ED1 and ordered dithering with this 750Ti, I should also say that I find the PQ highly underwhelming

I might have been willing to make do with the slight hum of the 1K rpm fans when idle as it'll never increase under load(even though it makes no sense to cool down the GPU to 27C) but I far prefer the PQ I get with this board or this one(even though my sample of the latter glitched on NNEDI3 chroma for some reason).

The built-in DVB-T tuner of the TV also looks heaps better on HD content than this 750Ti to my eyes, but not as good as mVR with ED1 LL off a GCN GPU though.

I know ppl on the HCFR forum have always been raving about the superior PQ of AMD and I'm not writing this post to start a church war or anything like that as the difference is far beyond placebo to my eyes, a wild guess towards the technical reason would be that there's always been a "black box" between what mVR sends to the graphic drivers and what's being actually sent to the display.

They apparently work in 12bit, apply the LUT if need be and then have to dither back and encode to lossy TMDS. It might very well be that I far prefer the dithering algorithm used by AMD because colorimetry was perfectly identical in both cases so there's gotta be something else.

GREG1292 went through a completely different experience:
Quote:
compared 7 with a sapphire 7870xt to the gtx-770 and preferred the GTX-770. Guess I will be sticking with 7 and Nvidia.
So YMMV more than ever, I rest my case that dithering algorithms in mVR are highly dependent on the display but they might also respond differently depending on the GPU maker/drivers.

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With my Windows 8.1; AMD FX-8350; R9 270X system... 13.12 still performs the best with madVR.
Figures, thanks for the confirmation as the 13.12 work like a treat and wasting my time rolling graphic drivers is something I really hate, especially when I am quite sure it will ultimately fail.

Last edited by leeperry; 11th December 2014 at 00:24.
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Old 11th December 2014, 03:43   #27804  |  Link
GREG1292
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Leeperry I am still using the GTX770 and latest nvidia drivers and could not be happier with madVr
as it runs so smooth for me. I am using a Runco VX2000D extreme dlp and a Panamorph uh480 on
a 127" scope screen and the picture is stunning. No need to upgrade gpu as Nvidia does a good job
of enabling or unlocking features and the picture continues to improve. Just want to give a shout out
To all the talented programmers giving me an amazing home theater experience.

Thanks a humble user��
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Old 11th December 2014, 08:50   #27805  |  Link
MysteryX
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Originally Posted by baii View Post
The fluid motion thing sound like SVP to me.
I was also curious about AMD's smooth video feature when I saw it.

It doesn't do the same as SVP. SVP is motion interpolation. AMD, as well as madVR, are not doing that. They instead blend frames. SVP has much higher quality.

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:27.
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Old 11th December 2014, 08:55   #27806  |  Link
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Although NNEDI3 isn't working on Radeon HD 7660M, I got to experiment with it through AviSynth. Here's what I found.

For 288p low-quality videos, that are generally poorly encoded with lots of encoding artifacts, quadrupling the frames with NNEDI3 makes the artifact noise too sharp.

After doing lots of tests with various filters, here's what gave the best results: doubling with EEDI3, then doubling again with NNEDI3, then downscaling.

The thing with EEDI3 is that its algorithm hasn't been developed like NNEDI3 and is MUCH slower, but applying it first on the small picture isn't too bad.

It might be good to see EEDI3 in madVR, especially if its code gets optimized to run as fast as NNEDI3.

And, it would be good to get NNEDI3 to work on a Radeon HD 7660M

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Old 11th December 2014, 09:05   #27807  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
I was also curious about AMD's smooth video feature when I saw it.

It doesn't do the same as SVP. SVP is motion interpolation. AMD, as well as madVR, are not doing that. They instead blend frames. SVP has much higher quality.

the new AMD fluid motion stuff is a frame interpolation that makes frames up (with all of it's artifact of course).

madVR SM has a totally different aim. it is simply trying to display a given frame rate on a given refresh rate. it is not trying to come up with new frames and it doesn't create error like interpolations like SVP or this AMD stuff. technically all of them are interpolations but only AMD and SVP try to create things that's doesn't exist.
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Old 11th December 2014, 18:19   #27808  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the new AMD fluid motion stuff is a frame interpolation that makes frames up (with all of it's artifact of course).

madVR SM has a totally different aim. it is simply trying to display a given frame rate on a given refresh rate. it is not trying to come up with new frames and it doesn't create error like interpolations like SVP or this AMD stuff. technically all of them are interpolations but only AMD and SVP try to create things that's doesn't exist.
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2018

Did they rename their Smooth Video feature into Fluid Motion or is it something different?

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:26.
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Old 11th December 2014, 19:12   #27809  |  Link
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That link to a older feature I believe. Svp can use cpu and gpu, the Amd is probably just gpu. Anyways, their goal is different than what madvr try to do like Huynh said.

Sent from my 306SH
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Old 12th December 2014, 00:44   #27810  |  Link
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Each of these video processing enhancements, along with the 5K panel support, has different (and sometimes incredibly specific) system requirements:

AMD Fluid Motion Video requires a 35W or higher AMD 7x00 A-series APU or an AMD Radeon R9 295X2/R9 290X/R9 290/R9 285/R7 260X/R7 260 GPU, Cyberlink PowerDVD 14, and Blu-ray content.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/...catalyst-omega

I have rarely seen a computer with a Blu-ray drive to begin with

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Old 12th December 2014, 01:49   #27811  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by GREG1292 View Post
Leeperry I am still using the GTX770 and latest nvidia drivers and could not be happier with madVR
Right, well I just put back the 7850 and PQ is as stunning as ever with monostatic ED1 LL so I'll just send back the upgraditis monster to where it came from. 1080p60 content looks jaw-dropping.

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Originally Posted by GREG1292 View Post
Just want to give a shout out to all the talented programmers giving me an amazing home theater experience.
Hard to deny, madshi's excellent work on mVR deserves major kudos as PQ goes way beyond all my expectations

Hopefully someday we'll be able to repay him, should he finally decide to allow payments that is
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Old 12th December 2014, 01:58   #27812  |  Link
MysteryX
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Hard to deny, madshi's excellent work on mVR deserves major kudos as PQ goes way beyond all my expectations

Hopefully someday we'll be able to repay him, should he finally decide to allow payments that is
Now that I finally decided to look into AviSynth and where the rescaling algorithm came from, I have even more respect for what madshi has done.

Compared to all the work that was done around AviSynth over the years, not only did madshi recode all these features to produce better output quality, but he's also the only one to have reprogrammed all these filters to use the GPU in an optimized way, and definitely the only one that can provide good results in real-time.

This goes way beyond anything else that has been done before over the years.

(technically, someone rewrote the NNEDI3 filter to work with the GPU, but that version often has worse performance than the CPU version!)

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Old 12th December 2014, 15:06   #27813  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
NEEDI3 chroma upscaling + 970 doesn't work properly
Asus Strix 970
344.75

and there are so many bugs trying to watch MKV movies. black flashes
[...]
Using Potplayer + MADVR + LavFilters CUVID
Check that you have "use a separate device for presentation" enabled.
I would also suggest using DXVA Copy-Back rather than CUVID.

I must admit, I am disappointed with the performance of my 970 Strix in madVR though.
It can just barely manage 16 neurons NNEDI3 chroma upscaling and luma doubling with 720p60 content.

For SD content I can now use slightly higher NNEDI3 settings than my old 570, but it really doesn't seem to be much of an improvement in performance at all. Gaming performance is massively improved though.
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Old 12th December 2014, 15:32   #27814  |  Link
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Just got a ROG Swift monitor and I can't believe how demanding upscaling to 1440p is! I was originally using Jinc 3 taps / Jinc 3 taps / Error Diffusion but my GTX 670 was barely keeping up with blu-rays or even DVDs (queues looked pretty bad). I switched to Softcubic for "image upscaling" (left Jinc for Chroma) and "ordered dithering" and all is good and my queues are filled again (GPU usage at 100% when watching a blu-ray though haha). I don't know if those are the "best" settings as I didn't spend much time experimenting though (yet)

This is not a complaint as it actually looks fantastic and BTW, G-Sync works with madVR and it's much better than Reclock or JRiver's VideoClock since you can keep untouched bit-perfect audio (and you also don't need to worry about switching display mode ). G-Sync is a revolution and not just for gaming it appears
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Old 12th December 2014, 16:29   #27815  |  Link
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G-Sync works with madVR
Can you explain what you mean by that? I'm interested in G-Sync but from the way it seems to be implemented it sounds like it would have no effect in madVR.
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Old 12th December 2014, 18:32   #27816  |  Link
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Well, it's just like games when you go in fullscreen exlusive mode : screen flickers briefly and the display reports that g-sync is on. And it looks perfectly smooth.

I've tried different framerates (25, 59, 60, 100...) but when I run fraps it always says 144fps (again, in fullscreen) so I'm not sure what to think now.

Even weirder, when I set the desktop refresh rate to something other than 144hz (say 100, 120) it still goes to 144hz + g-sync when I go in fullscreen exclusive mode in madVR. And when I disable g-sync... well screen still flickers briefly when entering fullscreen, display reports that g-sync is off, but refresh rate is back to... 144hz. And yes I've disabled display mode switching in madVR & JRiver. So I don't know, this is nothing to worry about for 24 or 23.976 fps IMO (and OSD didn't report the slightest dropped frame or anything during a 3h film, nor did I see anything with my eyes) but it's possible that 25 or 60 fps doesn't look "perfect" I guess. Maybe the high refresh rate just makes it a lot harder to notice. I don't have the very latest nvidia drivers (344.11 for now) as I am not rushing to upgrade my drivers nowadays. My GPU is getting old and I don't play a lot of freshly released games

Also, this means I can't use motion blur reduction (ULMB) in films because the display resets to 144hz and ULMB only works at 85, 100, 120hz. I don't know if it would look any good though, I'm just curious.

edit : hum there is a setting in nvidia control panel that I should probably play around with : "preferred refresh rate". Let's see...
edit 2 : ok that worked, no more 144hz when I enter fullscreen and ULMB does work for video playback now.

Last edited by kalston; 12th December 2014 at 19:44.
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Old 12th December 2014, 18:54   #27817  |  Link
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Originally Posted by kalston View Post
Just got a ROG Swift monitor and I can't believe how demanding upscaling to 1440p is! I was originally using Jinc 3 taps / Jinc 3 taps / Error Diffusion but my GTX 670 was barely keeping up with blu-rays or even DVDs (queues looked pretty bad). I switched to Softcubic for "image upscaling" (left Jinc for Chroma) and "ordered dithering" and all is good and my queues are filled again (GPU usage at 100% when watching a blu-ray though haha). I don't know if those are the "best" settings as I didn't spend much time experimenting though (yet)
That's strange, my EVGA GTX 670 FTW keeps up pretty well with Jinc 3 AR for all upscaling and Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling as well as NNEDI3 for x2 Luma.

Maybe a slight overclock is required over the GTX 670's base clock?

Last edited by dansrfe; 12th December 2014 at 18:57.
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Old 12th December 2014, 19:19   #27818  |  Link
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That's strange, my EVGA GTX 670 FTW keeps up pretty well with Jinc 3 AR for all upscaling and Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling as well as NNEDI3 for x2 Luma.

Maybe a slight overclock is required over the GTX 670's base clock?
Ok you got me curious. And here's the catch : with g-sync off, yep, flawless performance no matter the settings. G-sync on > queues don't fill up, I get a presentation queue of 1/4 sometimes even 0/4 and fraps reports a very fluctuating framerate below 144 (even though madVR doesn't report dropped frames or glitches) and it does look bad. But as soon as I switch back to windowed it looks perfect though. Oh yeah and GPU usage at 100% is also totally due to g-sync, it's a reasonable 30% or so without it. So that settles it, g-sync off for JRiver.

Last edited by kalston; 12th December 2014 at 19:34.
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Old 12th December 2014, 20:46   #27819  |  Link
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What's recommended to downscale 2560*1440 to fullHD. It seems like a YT channel I watch moved past fullhd.
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Old 12th December 2014, 21:06   #27820  |  Link
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edit : hum there is a setting in nvidia control panel that I should probably play around with : "preferred refresh rate". Let's see...
edit 2 : ok that worked, no more 144hz when I enter fullscreen and ULMB does work for video playback now.
That setting defaults to leave the refresh rate alone in the newer drivers. There have also been other minor improvements for G-sync in the newer drivers (unless you have SLI, then there are major improvements).

madVR's smooth motion works quite well at 144 Hz but using 120 Hz is optimal, of course.

You absolutely DO NOT want ULMB for low frame rate content with madVR. The frame is repeated four or five times.

When your eyes are tracking motion ULMB causes you to see five separate images instead of normal motion blur so it looks like there is motion ghosting instead of motion blurring. Ghosting is worse than blur (to most people at least) as we are used to motion blur in film. Actually when watching filmed content with a lot of motion blur you are unlikely to notice the ghosting so maybe it doesn't matter that much but with anime ULMB looks bad. I can notice what looks like very bad LCD ghosting, especially during pans, with ULMB on.

ULMB would probably be nice with some sort of motion interpolation (e.g. SVP), except for the motion interpolation artifacts.

(PG278Q ROG Swift, SLI Titans, Win 8.1 x64)
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