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Old 30th May 2018, 15:46   #51061  |  Link
Polopretress
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Hey guy, we were not talking about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen but the impact of this settings on the smoothness of the video (and the need or not to use Smooth Motion function)
Of course 40min of drop/repeat is not really an issue to lose or repeat a frame but the impact on the fluidity of the video is more visible when timing is not "perfectly" or "near perfectly" set

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 15:49.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:55   #51062  |  Link
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Hey guy, we were not talking about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen
No. We were talking exactly about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen and how avoid this.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:01   #51063  |  Link
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Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
If your display allows it, sure.

Unfortunately that's not the case for many of us, especially with projectors.

I do agree though that if I could get 3+ hours in both 2D and 3D then I wouldn't be looking for anything more.

50-60mn in 2D is close enough, if the shot is mostly static when the 2-3 frame drops happen I won't notice them.

3-5mn in 3D sucks and makes it close to useless to those of us sensitive to frame drops though, and there doesn't seem to be a way to improve this, sadly.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:20   #51064  |  Link
Polopretress
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Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post
No. We were talking exactly about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen and how avoid this.
Not really but it does not matter.

see attached the beginning of the discussion :
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Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post
No. It is not improvement of SM nor new algorithm. This is struggling with almost the same but not equal frequencies. Read the beginning of this discussion.
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But Smooth Motion is completly useless when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:22   #51065  |  Link
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Yea, the drops in 3D on nVidia is very noticeable. If there's a way to improve that, I'd be all over it. Lately I can't even get a 2D custom res to work all that well for my panasonic plasma. sigh.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:49   #51066  |  Link
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Yea, the drops in 3D on nVidia is very noticeable. If there's a way to improve that, I'd be all over it. Lately I can't even get a 2D custom res to work all that well for my panasonic plasma. sigh.
I was not aware that 3D behavior was different from 2D on the custom resolution. (i do not read 3D in fact)
Does someone here knows the root cause ?

If you have also problem with 2D , it is probably because even if you modify and create a custom resolution for your Pana, it does not take into account and keep using his EDID settings to display.

In this case, 2 solutions :
1. modifiy the EDID instead of creating custom resolutions
2. create a multiple of your frequency but apply the settings of the real frequency.(and , of course, modify this setting in madVR by replacing for example 1080p23 by 1080p47) in that case, you "turn-around" the system lock.

On my Pana plasma , i apply the second solution because i prefer to avoid to modify the EDID file.

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If your display allows it, sure.
Unfortunately that's not the case for many of us, especially with projectors.
Exact. i see you have a JVC and it is a mess with this brand....
I have already spent hours and hours with one JVC of my friend to try to make it accept a new setting without blanck screen....

Sony and Epson are really more flexible !

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 17:01.
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Old 30th May 2018, 17:19   #51067  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by Polopretress View Post
Exact. i see you have a JVC and it is a mess with this brand....
I have already spent hours and hours with one JVC of my friend to try to make it accept a new setting without blanck screen....
There is only one custom refresh rate setting that works with the JVCs (at least mine) with my 1080Ti and it's the EDID/CTA. That's the one that gives me 50-60mn between drops in 4K24 (2D). There is no need to "train" MadVR for 30mn, just select it and apply it. I haven't tested any other res/refresh rate as I don't really care.
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Last edited by Manni; 30th May 2018 at 17:23.
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Old 30th May 2018, 17:37   #51068  |  Link
madshi
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3-5mn in 3D sucks and makes it close to useless to those of us sensitive to frame drops though, and there doesn't seem to be a way to improve this, sadly.
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
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Old 30th May 2018, 18:12   #51069  |  Link
Manni
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Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Wow, that's great news, thanks!

I hope they'll solve the levels issue at the same time, that's the main problem with the latest drivers.

And good luck with your commercial work
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Old 30th May 2018, 19:50   #51070  |  Link
sat4all
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Great news, thank you and best of luck with your work.
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Old 30th May 2018, 19:52   #51071  |  Link
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Wow, that's great news, thanks!

I hope they'll solve the levels issue at the same time, that's the main problem with the latest drivers.

And good luck with your commercial work
What levels issue do you have? I'm on last drivers and didn't notice anything!
GPU 0-255, madVR and TV 16-235
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Old 30th May 2018, 20:08   #51072  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...


dunno, if that makes a difference, but i allmost never had a problem with the NVidia drivers..
BUT, i also DONT use teh GeForce drivers, i do use Quadro drivers that i modd beforehand to install it on my gtx670.
Maybe worth a try for the ones having problems..
I do feel, that the quadro drivers are more stable and have less Bugs/Problems..

Greetings..
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:17   #51073  |  Link
madjock
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Well, out of a pure fluke and messing about for a long time, then giving up when I had at best 38 Mins frame repeats which was livable...

I came across this post on a random Google search...

1. Go to Nvidia Control Panel
2. Change the Resolution to 23 HZ (I left this one at 24hz and it made no difference)
3. Create Custom Resolution With Following Settings:

Horizontal Pixels: 1920

Vertical Lines: 1080

Refresh Rate: 23


Timing:

Standard: Manual


Horizontal:

Active Pixels: 1920

Front Porch(pixels): 638

Sync width(pixels): 44

Total Pixels: 2750

Polarity: Positive


Vertical:

Active Pixels: 1080

Front Porch(pixels): 4

Sync width(pixels): 5

Total Pixels: 1124

Polarity: Positive


Hz: 23.976



I'm using a 1050 and 390.77 drivers, and I am now getting 8 hrs + without a frame repeat on 1080p, and 2160p->1080p.

I never did get the MadVR ones to work, well any better than the Nvidia, and CRU and the likes were a pain for me for some reason.

It takes a minute and actually sits at 23.9755 ish, and the deviation locks out at 0.00230% or something like that and all good.

Sorted.
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:58   #51074  |  Link
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It is the standard setting except -1 in total pixel vertical (means -1 in vertical back porch) ==> you are just lucky.
Just for information, you do not have to focus on the time displayed for the first frame drop/repeat occurs if you have a deviation clock of this value. just focus on the value of "display" because the value of the time counter is wrong.

For having deviation clock at this value, you probably use MPC-be (or equivalent).
Potplayer is not creating clock deviation (will trend to 0.00000% after few seconds) and in this situation the value of time counter (1 frame repeat/drop every is correct and consistent with the value of "display" indicator.
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:08   #51075  |  Link
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It is the standard setting except -1 in total pixel vertical (means -1 in vertical back porch) ==> you are just lucky.
Just for information, you do not have to focus on the time displayed for the first frame drop/repeat occurs if you have a deviation clock of this value. just focus on the value of "display" because the value of the time counter is wrong.

For having deviation clock at this value, you probably use MPC-be (or equivalent).
Potplayer is not creating clock deviation (will trend to 0.00000% after few seconds) and in this situation the value of time counter (1 frame repeat/drop every is correct and consistent with the value of "display" indicator.
I don't think Im lucky, I have messed with the odd pixel here and there and never achieved anything like this, there were also a few people on the thread that got good results with it, a bit like the MadVR customs that I had no joy with.

I am using MPC-HC and KODI and Dsplayer, KODI gives even better results.

I also assume you are not Bitstreaming DTS-HD or TrueHD via HDMI to get 0.000000% and POT player uses some sort of re-clock, which is no use to people who want to Bitstream.
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:10   #51076  |  Link
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Clock deviation makes no real difference. madVR accounts for it when calculating the repeat/drop timer, you just need to play long enough for it to stabilize, and the ultimate test is for every setup to just play a 2 hour movie and check the stats afterwards (clear them after launch to get rid of the first drops during startup).
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:16   #51077  |  Link
madjock
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Clock deviation makes no real difference. madVR accounts for it when calculating the repeat/drop timer, you just need to play long enough for it to stabilize, and the ultimate test is for every setup to just play a 2 hour movie and check the stats afterwards (clear them after launch to get rid of the first drops during startup).

I agree, but previous to this and after attempting lots and lots of custom resolutions, changing the odd pixel, using manual after setting different timings, I would get something like 23.9756-ish sat steady-ish and at best 38 Mins per frame drop.

Now with these figures I have applied, it is lower that 23.9756, yet the frame repeats have gone to the hours, at best they used to reach an hr and drop back and stabilize at 36-38 mins.

I think its as good as I am going to get for sure.

Last edited by madjock; 30th May 2018 at 22:22.
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:22   #51078  |  Link
Manni
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What levels issue do you have? I'm on last drivers and didn't notice anything!
GPU 0-255, madVR and TV 16-235
I also use RGB Full, MadVR and TV 16-235, but this doesn't work for me with 391.x. That and the other issues I reported a while back (broken Asio4all compatibility and a few other things).

It could be specific to my JVC display but the levels are completely borked for me with 391.x

Borked as in it's not possible to find a combination of settings that results in the correct levels both in SDR and in HDR.

I tried to set all GPU/MadVR/Display to 0-255 and a few other combos, it's just a no go. Levels simply don't match, blacks are either crushed or raised, there is no combo that gives me black at 16 in SDR and 64 in HDR.

I know many don't have this levels issue, and I'm happy for them
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:33   #51079  |  Link
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I also use RGB Full, MadVR and TV 16-235, but this doesn't work for me with 391.x. That and the other issues I reported a while back (broken Asio4all compatibility and a few other things).
Latest driver version is 397.93, maybe you get lucky.
Try clean install using DDU.

Cheers
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Old 30th May 2018, 23:02   #51080  |  Link
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Latest driver version is 397.93, maybe you get lucky.
Try clean install using DDU.

Cheers
Yeah, that's what I do with every single new driver, before reverting to 385.28.

I did see the 397.93 and want to test it in case the refresh rate for 3D is fixed. Didn't have the time yet...
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