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Old 30th August 2011, 16:40   #9621  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by mzso View Post
Layman question. Isn't OpenCL designed to interoperate with OpenGL?
There is an official OpenCL extension to interop with OpenGL, and there's another official OpenCL extension to interop with D3D10. There is no official extension for interop with D3D9, unfortunately. Still, it's quite possible to do, and NVidia offers OpenCL <-> D3D9 interop. Only AMD does not. And then AMD releases their OpenVideo Decode OpenCL API, without deinterlacing functionality and with no way to connect to DXVA...
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:56   #9622  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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ATI/AMD is uselss. I'd not buy any of their current cards if its about (directshow) video. not having proper deinterlacing hardware support sucks.
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Old 30th August 2011, 16:58   #9623  |  Link
noee
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And then AMD releases their OpenVideo Decode OpenCL API, without deinterlacing functionality and with no way to connect to DXVA...
Good ole fashioned piss-poor product management, it's got to be the fact that whoever is defining goals/objectives/constraints is not getting to the critical subject matter experts.

But, I must be an outlier as far as AMD/ATI is concerned. I've built up at least 7 machines recently using various AMD GPU configurations and with the 11.x drivers and have never had a single issue, though 4 of these machines were for friends/family (HD4770/HD5670/HD5770) and the rest are for my internal use (HD2600XT/HD6570). Even with the "one-off" 4770, AFAIK, it's handling some minor HTPC duties and has been updated to the latest 11.x CCC.

I have a 6520G in a Llano notebook and have just put in a second HD6570 passive in a test machine, both perform as expected with madVR. One caveat, I am not a gamer, so the only stress my machines get is with madVR....
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Old 30th August 2011, 17:19   #9624  |  Link
madshi
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I do like AMD myself, due to good performance per watt, due to *not* having those presentation glitch problems and due to a freely available frame packed HDMI 3D output SDK. Unfortunately neither NVidia nor AMD are really perfect at this time. I wish it were possible to combine the best of NVidia and AMD into one new HTPC graphics card.
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Old 30th August 2011, 17:59   #9625  |  Link
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I wish it were possible to combine the best of NVidia and AMD into one new HTPC graphics card.
Too bad you're not in the US; you could claim to be a "too big to fail" company, and they'd give you a few $ Billion, then you could make it yourself

if only your business was in the US, and had former executives in the government. Maybe you could get Goldman Sacks to help; they get whatever they want here

(rumor is that Goldman Sacks is considering a "merger" with the US Government, but they have to get a bit more dirt on the regulators first to assure they approve the deal)

I miss Liberty
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Old 30th August 2011, 18:01   #9626  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You're only checking for chroma resolution/detail, though, not for aliasing, are you? Of course it's a matter of taste if chroma resolution is more or less important than avoiding/removal of aliasing. Personally, I hate aliasing, so I prefer to use a softer chroma upscaling algorithm.
I hate aliasing too - it's why I use SoftCubic 70 on Luma upscaling. I've yet to see any noticeable chroma aliasing from using Bicubic 75 though.
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Oh well, maybe I should implement *normal* screenshots first, before even thinking about such "special" features...
Absolutely, I don't expect anything like that to be a priority, was just throwing the idea out there.
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How often do you change background wallpapers during video playback?
My guess would be Windows 7's automatic changer.
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Actually that's open for discussion. There's a thread on AVSForum which extensively analyzed this and the end result wasn't 100% clear. But those who were convinced that WTW shouldn't be clipped at the start of the thread weren't so convinced, anymore, at the end of the thread.
The EBU specifies that a display must not clip values above 235 to be suitable for use as a reference monitor. 235 is calibrated to your desired brightness (80 nits under ideal conditions specified by the EBU) with 255 ending up at 100 nits in those conditions. Unfortunately this is awkward from a HTPC perspective, as it means video white, which will be the brightest thing in most sources, will look dull compared to the white seen in a browser window etc.
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IIRC the EDID doesn't say anything about 16-235 vs 0-255.
Well, however it is that it's communicated between the source and display. (it has to be done somehow, as some displays will auto-switch correctly with some sources. (e.g. many Sony displays paired with a PS3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
There is a *HUGE* regression with newer NVidia drivers, though: Presentation glitches when playing back content at a higher refresh rate. E.g. playing back 25fps content at 50Hz is really bad here on my 9400. I have to switch to D3D11 presentation and play with the tweaks to make the presentation glitches go away. From reading through this thread it appears that AMD users don't have this problem.
This was never a problem with my system when it was using a 9400, but when I switched over to a GTX 570 it surfaced. It appears that whatever changed must now be affecting older cards too.

Strangely though, I just went back to finish watching Wonders of the Universe the other day, which is what I had originally been using to test for this as it's one of the few 25p sources I have that should be played back at 50Hz rather than 24Hz, and I did not encounter any presentation glitches with the latest nVidia drivers. (280.26) I believe the only changes I have made to the rendering settings are increasing the buffer sizes to maximum (memory is not an issue here) enabling D3D11 presentation and enabling the "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" option.

This config, or something similar at least, helped before, but I still encountered presentation glitches, which were shown as visible stutters (despite no dropped/delayed frames) just less frequently.
Previously, I would have to switch between the new and old rendering methods depending on whether I was playing 24p @ 24Hz, or 30@60Hz/25@50Hz for completely smooth playback.

It may have been fixed sooner than 280.26, but this is the first time I've tried to play back 25@50 in quite some time, and it's worked without having to switch between the new & old rendering paths.

Last edited by 6233638; 30th August 2011 at 18:04.
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Old 30th August 2011, 19:17   #9627  |  Link
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Originally Posted by pankov View Post
I believe that he is not changing them manually but letting Windows 7 do it automatically (like I did before). There is such an option in the Desktop background configuration window.
Sadly it interferes with madVR even in Exclusive mode so I disabled it ... it was a nice feature otherwise.
I use it too, mostly cause I run a plasma and when I had static images I'd get some slight burn-in or ghosting, whatever that was. Try disabling Aero (desktop composition) in the madVR settings. The changes won't stop, but they won't have the nice fade that cause the drops. I myself am not experiencing any trouble though, it might be underpowered cards.
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:01   #9628  |  Link
BatKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
There is a *HUGE* regression with newer NVidia drivers, though: Presentation glitches when playing back content at a higher refresh rate. E.g. playing back 25fps content at 50Hz is really bad here on my 9400. I have to switch to D3D11 presentation and play with the tweaks to make the presentation glitches go away. From reading through this thread it appears that AMD users don't have this problem.
I have that problem too with 280.26 and my GTX460. I solved it by enabling "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" only.

Does this do any other harm to be always on? I mainly watch 24fps at 24Hz though, and don't need that option enabled when at 24Hz.

Bat
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:33   #9629  |  Link
Xaurus
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
That doesn't seem right, not using ReClock is usually the cause of that. (either that or audio sync problems)

I would suggest trying ReClock again. Make sure it is selected as the audio renderer in your player, and not added as an external filter.

http://img231.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=79075040.png

Note: My sound pre-buffer & max latency settings probably won't work well on most HTPCs, it's only giving the CPU 4ms to process the audio before you start getting pops & clicks. Works fine on a system my spec, probably terrible on others. I'd try 200-300ms and 5%. (basically as low as you can get without audio problems)

Sample rate & format should be set as high as your device allows.
Hi 6233638 and anyone else it might concern,

I have now reinstalled Reclock and fiddled with it for a few hours on my main display device (the plasma).

Windowed mode screenshot below, note that there is no
stutter nor dropped frames and the reclock sync symbol is
almost at the absolute bottom left corner. The screenshot
was taken after about 5 minutes of play after seeking:
windowed mode screenshot

Fullscreen mode screenshot below. The screenshot was
taken after about one minute and there are already
4 dropped frames, so my previous comment of stutter each
15-30 seconds seems to be very explainable. The reclock
vsync symbol is in the (exact) middle left, very different from
windowed mode:
fullscreen mode screenshot


Conclusion:
Windowed mode = no stutter
Fullscreen exclusive mode = stutter

Here are all settingss:
All reclock settings
Filters in use
madvr general settings
madvr windowed settings
madvr fullscreen settings
madvr quality settings

Using Nvidia drivers 280.36 (same thing with 280.26) for the 570 GTX. CPU is Core i7 980x @ 4 GHz.

edit: Reclock is set as the renderer in the mpc-hc drop-down list. I have absolutely no sound problems of any kind feeding a 24/96 external 2-channel DAC through SP/DIF.

Best,
X

Last edited by Xaurus; 30th August 2011 at 21:36.
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:37   #9630  |  Link
nevcairiel
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You should disable any ReClock VSYNC correction when using madVR.
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Old 30th August 2011, 23:00   #9631  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by BatKnight View Post
I have that problem too with 280.26 and my GTX460. I solved it by enabling "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" only.

Does this do any other harm to be always on? I mainly watch 24fps at 24Hz though, and don't need that option enabled when at 24Hz.
Previously, it was causing problems for me with 24p@24Hz, but that no longer seems to be an issue, so it should be fine.

I've just tested a few things after resetting madVR settings to the defaults.

"limit rendering times to avoid glitches" on its own does not fix things.
"use D3D11 for presentation" on its own significantly reduces presentation glitches.

Combining the two eliminates them. Nothing else needs changed from the defaults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You should disable any ReClock VSYNC correction when using madVR.
Bingo. I would also suggest not overriding the file's framerate unless you know for certain that "Automatic" is making a mistake.

EDIT: Oh, and don't "give high CPU priority to player." (if anyone is doing this with Haali's Splitter, they should disable that too)
Let ReClock adjust the audio more than 1% in speed as well, I suggest 5% up/down.

I would also recommend not setting all madVR flush settings to "flush and wait (loop)" unless it's necessary on your system. (the defaults seem to be fine for me now, after trying various configurations in old versions)



I've also had a chance to try madVR's refresh rate changer again, and it seems to be working now. (previously, I was stuck with a black screen) Not sure if it's driver related, or because I just did a clean install of Windows 7.

However, if the refresh rate changes from 60 to 24Hz, going from fullscreen to windowed mode has the video play back at a very low framerate and it's constantly dropping frames.

DVD playback is stuck at 60Hz rather than switching to 24Hz.
Looks like I'm still going to be switching manually.

Last edited by 6233638; 30th August 2011 at 23:13.
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Old 31st August 2011, 00:51   #9632  |  Link
TheElix
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
However, if the refresh rate changes from 60 to 24Hz, going from fullscreen to windowed mode has the video play back at a very low framerate and it's constantly dropping frames.
Finally, someone with the same problem as me. Confirmed. But I don't even use framerate changer, I'm used to switching refresh rates manually (swapping CCC's profiles with a hotkey). But even then I have this stuttering when going from 60 to 24 Hz at the start of a video. This is healed by opening madVR's properties window in filters 100% of the time. Then video flows smoothly.
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Old 31st August 2011, 00:55   #9633  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That shift trick would work only with Bilinear sampling, but not with any other linear filter (Bicubic, Lanczos, Spline etc). And I think Lanczos3 with no shift will still look noticeably better than Bilinear with a 0.25 shift. Preserving the original pixels is very much overrated, IMHO. But if you think you can improve on madVR scaling quality with a simple Avisynth linear resampler with a 0.25 shift, then post some comparison screenshots that proof that and I'll consider implementing it.
The shift works well with all resize methods. However, I just did some comparisons and while there is a tiny difference (shift+original pixels looks sharper but more aliasing), it's so small it's not even worth the trouble posting screens =).
I was just thinking of getting a 30-inch screen, and thought of the upscaling of 720p videos, but apparently they will be just fine as it is =).
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Old 31st August 2011, 01:00   #9634  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
"limit rendering times to avoid glitches" on its own does not fix things.
For me, that one is enough...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
"use D3D11 for presentation" on its own significantly reduces presentation glitches.
I can't use D3D11 because it's not compatible with MPC-HC's refresh rate changer. And I still don't use madVR's refresh rate changer because it lacks the option to do it only when going fullscreen.
I don't need my refresh rate changed when I am just previewing videos on window mode. I would like it to be able to change the refresh rate when I go fullscreen to watch the movie. MPC-HC allows that, madVR doesn't... yet (I hope.. I keep bugging madshi about it, though)

Bat
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Last edited by BatKnight; 31st August 2011 at 01:04.
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Old 31st August 2011, 01:12   #9635  |  Link
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I think the glitches happened on the 275 nvidia drivers, with one tweak (overshoot latency or w/e), playback was perfect on any resolution with any video FPS before, now that tweak doesn't work (only limit rendering times works now, but not perfectly), and playback is only perfect at resolutions that are the same as the video fps.

Also, the DX11 path according to the osd should be perfect, as it shows about the same amount of frames in the present que on 48/60hz as the regular path on 24/30hz (same on 24/30hz though, so something must not be working? Also 24/30hz playback is fine), but it has a decent amount of glitches (about same as dx9 path without any tweaks), reguardless of tweaks (none of them work)... I have noticed this for quite some time (even with older nvidia drivers if i recall), and was wondering what to make of it?

And as for refresh changing, i usually just take stuff out of the "line" on madvr when i'm not watching something seriously. Generally if i'm going to sit down "kick back" and get into something, it's not that big of a deal (for me anyways) to add/change or w/e on madvr the resolution settings to make playback as seamless as possible. Because for just general/casual video watching, or "previewing", i usually don't care too much. And of course it's most convienent to not have the screen resolution changing all the time. (of course an option like mentioned above to only change when switching to fullscreen wouldn't hurt )

Last edited by Hprd; 31st August 2011 at 01:29.
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Old 31st August 2011, 01:21   #9636  |  Link
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For those that are looking for an alternative refresh rate changer, there's Autofrequency. Works very well for me. Here's some info on its use.
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Old 31st August 2011, 04:09   #9637  |  Link
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I have a question, anyone have experience using madvr with an intel hd 3000 gpu or hd 2000 gpu?
I imagine it would work fine as long as you keep the scaling to bilinear or something.

Last edited by mindbomb; 31st August 2011 at 04:32.
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Old 31st August 2011, 04:26   #9638  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Hprd View Post
I think the glitches happened on the 275 nvidia drivers, with one tweak (overshoot latency or w/e), playback was perfect on any resolution with any video FPS before, now that tweak doesn't work (only limit rendering times works now, but not perfectly), and playback is only perfect at resolutions that are the same as the video fps.

Also, the DX11 path according to the osd should be perfect, as it shows about the same amount of frames in the present que on 48/60hz as the regular path on 24/30hz (same on 24/30hz though, so something must not be working? Also 24/30hz playback is fine), but it has a decent amount of glitches (about same as dx9 path without any tweaks), reguardless of tweaks (none of them work)... I have noticed this for quite some time (even with older nvidia drivers if i recall), and was wondering what to make of it?

And as for refresh changing, i usually just take stuff out of the "line" on madvr when i'm not watching something seriously. Generally if i'm going to sit down "kick back" and get into something, it's not that big of a deal (for me anyways) to add/change or w/e on madvr the resolution settings to make playback as seamless as possible. Because for just general/casual video watching, or "previewing", i usually don't care too much. And of course it's most convienent to not have the screen resolution changing all the time. (of course an option like mentioned above to only change when switching to fullscreen wouldn't hurt )
Did someone take into account that maybe the P-state changes (for G200 and newer Cards) depending on the load might be responsible for such hicups also with MadVR and Nvidia Cards ?
The 280 drivers have according to Nvidia a faster Response time also then 275 in those regards.
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Old 31st August 2011, 05:30   #9639  |  Link
6233638
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Well so much for that. Despite not making any other changes to my system (other than watching a couple of other films) madVR's refresh rate changer has started to cause MPC-HC to crash on startup again after changing the display mode. (solid black screen until I hit CTRL ALT DEL and start the task manager)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruNcher View Post
Did someone take into account that maybe the P-state changes (for G200 and newer Cards) depending on the load might be responsible for such hicups also with MadVR and Nvidia Cards ?
The 280 drivers have according to Nvidia a faster Response time also then 275 in those regards.
I don't think that's the case. With LAV CUVID, my GPU is stuck in P0 (full power) unless I override that with nVidia Inspector's multi display power saver tool. Happens regardless of P-state.
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Old 31st August 2011, 12:32   #9640  |  Link
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For me, that one is enough...

I can't use D3D11 because it's not compatible with MPC-HC's refresh rate changer. And I still don't use madVR's refresh rate changer because it lacks the option to do it only when going fullscreen.
I don't need my refresh rate changed when I am just previewing videos on window mode. I would like it to be able to change the refresh rate when I go fullscreen to watch the movie. MPC-HC allows that, madVR doesn't... yet (I hope.. I keep bugging madshi about it, though)

Bat
Hello,
there is a third way to have the auto refresh rate: the free software AutoFrequency.
Forum link: http://www.homecinema-hd.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=20
Download link: http://www.homecinema-hd.com/down.ph...=autofrequency
I use it with mpc-hc and madVr (in D3D11) and it works really fine.
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