madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Yes I know that but you didn't read my earlier long post why I need to do it all at 60Hz. I have a film club and before the main feature we play a number of shorts which are mixed content, 25, 50, 60, 24 but it takes my new JVC RS600 up to 17 secs to sync when changing. It obvious what happens, every new clip/short has video cut, audio fine, but the beginning of every short is just a black screen for up to 17 secs.... Shocking! So we cant screen that way...

Having everything locked into 60Hz prevents this and we have no black screens between changes... Plus many on here say they get much nicer playback (smoother) playing 24 BDs at 60Hz. I don't care if the clips and shorts we have at the start of a feature are not 100% perfect, lots come off youtube so to start with they arnt often the correct frame rate anyway...

So far my tests using madvr/JRiver have been way better than locking everything to 60 on Kodi/openelec, I just cant get any smooth motion with that formula.

Kodi DSPlayer is still an option. It no longer has a developer, so it will probably fail you in the future.

It does have the ability to play your pre-show content with one player (DVDPlayer) at 60 Hz and play the feature with DSPlayer at 24 Hz. Each player has its own refresh rate settings and can be programmed with rules to play content by filename tag or filetype.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Yes I know that but you didn't read my earlier long post why I need to do it all at 60Hz. I have a film club and before the main feature we play a number of shorts which are mixed content, 25, 50, 60, 24 but it takes my new JVC RS600 up to 17 secs to sync when changing. It obvious what happens, every new clip/short has video cut, audio fine, but the beginning of every short is just a black screen for up to 17 secs.... Shocking! So we cant screen that way...

Having everything locked into 60Hz prevents this and we have no black screens between changes... Plus many on here say they get much nicer playback (smoother) playing 24 BDs at 60Hz. I don't care if the clips and shorts we have at the start of a feature are not 100% perfect, lots come off youtube so to start with they arnt often the correct frame rate anyway...

So far my tests using madvr/JRiver have been way better than locking everything to 60 on Kodi/openelec, I just cant get any smooth motion with that formula.

can you make a screen from the OSD?

if your screen has a properly working 23p mode i don't see a reason why smooth motion could be better it could be at best as good as native 23p.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by huhn

if your screen has a properly working 23p mode i don't see a reason why smooth motion could be better it could be at best as good as native 23p.

Smooth Motion at 60hz should always be smoother than running 24p.

The only time I use 24hz is to enable frame interpolation for animated content.. Because the pulldown at 60hz affects it's smoothness otherwise.

[huhn]

and why should it be smoother?

[arrgh]

I have read the thread on configuring madVR compiled by Warner306, which was very informative.

I have not the newest Hardware :
Win 8.1x64 on core 2 duo 6600 @2400 GHz and DDR800 Memory.

Still, PowerDVD13 and StereoscopicPlayer are able to playback 3D-MVC Content without Problems (iso or mkv respectivly).

On the other hand, when I use MPC-BEx64 (with madVR from Shark007) and his advanced codec pack, i get good playback for standard bluray content, but extrem stuttering and hundreds of droped frames if playing the same 3d content PowerDVD or StereoscopicPalyer managed without Problems on the same machine...

I have played around with the madVR and LAV Settings for some time. But without success.

Therefore my question is
- what should the basic settings be for playback of 1080p23 content (2D/3D) as long as the quality is comparable to PowerDVD
- what are the chances to get a "core madVR" which would simply provide the 3d-playback to MPC-BE without to many "fancy" picture improvements (again, I would call it already a day, if it would be in the range of PoverDVD13, which does run on my System)...

Thanks in advance

[huhn]

what GPU are you using?

and can you make a screen of the OSD when a 2D file s running (control+j)?

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by huhn

and why should it be smoother?

Because blended frames make it smoother (especially noticeable on panning shots, Casino Royale is a good test)

Better 24 standard frames +36 Smooth Motion blended/duplicated frames than just 24 standard frames and that's half the reason why Smooth & Fluid Motion exist, the other half being no more 3:2 pulldown (which madVR needs some work on).

Projectors generally mask this problem with their double shuttering, but properly supportive of 24P or not.. you'll still get smoother results with Smooth/Fluid Motion at the expense of clarity.. But you know that already.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by Warner306

Kodi DSPlayer is still an option. It no longer has a developer, so it will probably fail you in the future.

It does have the ability to play your pre-show content with one player (DVDPlayer) at 60 Hz and play the feature with DSPlayer at 24 Hz. Each player has its own refresh rate settings and can be programmed with rules to play content by filename tag or filetype.

I don't want to go Kodi DSPlayer for the very reason it no longer has a developer, that's why I choose JRiver (paid) with madvr.

The results Im now getting look fine...
25 content playing at 60Hz with smooth motion engaged plays no worse than 25 content with the card set to 25, I tested this today, over and over again on the Universal logo which has lots of moving images and text. Infact the 25 logo looks even better played at 60Hz with smooth motion engaged, its perfect, why I have no idea, I thought it would be worse.

So locking the card at 60Hz, playing all the mixed content first (25, 50, 60, 29, 24) then onto the feature which is 24 all at 60Hz looks great!

Its one thousand percent better than when I was trying to do this with kodi/openelec (no madvr) Looks like madvr is the magic ingredient here with smooth motion engaged.

No more SLOW refresh rate changes and missing the beginning of video clips/shorts/trailers when all set to 60Z, madvr and smooth motion.

[SweetLow]

Originally Posted by 70MM

why I need to do it all at 60Hz

Ah, flawless streaming. So use only the second - enable smooth motion to "or if display refresh rate is an exact multiple of movie frame rate" option.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by SweetLow

Ah, flawless streaming. So use only the second - enable smooth motion to "or if display refresh rate is an exact multiple of movie frame rate" option.

Sorry I don't understand what you are saying here???

I was told to set smooth motion at "always"

If I was to use "exact multiple of movie frame rate" doesn't that meant the real 50 content playing at 60Hz is going to look really bad with no smooth motion engaged???

e.g. The guys that play all 24 content at 60Hz all use smooth motion engaged...
24 isn't a multiple of 60... so with your method it would stutter, correct?

[SweetLow]

Originally Posted by 70MM

If I was to use "exact multiple of movie frame rate" doesn't that meant the real 50 content playing at 60Hz is going to look really bad with no smooth motion engaged???

No, you, AFAIK, wrong. If we have smooth motion on then
1. 50 on 60 will smoothed _always_
2. but 30 on 60 will smoothed if "exact multiple of movie frame rate" is on

p.s. and you can easy check this in OSD
p.p.s and if i have such task as you - i will use ReClock+"exact multiple of movie frame rate"

[adhara]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Great stuff many thanks for that Warner. I will try both tonight and report back.

Forgot to ask, do you both use projectors?

Warner306, these are not in your preferred setting in your guide

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

[huhn]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Because blended frames make it smoother (especially noticeable on panning shots, Casino Royale is a good test)

Better 24 standard frames +36 Smooth Motion blended/duplicated frames than just 24 standard frames and that's half the reason why Smooth & Fluid Motion exist, the other half being no more 3:2 pulldown (which madVR needs some work on).

Projectors generally mask this problem with their double shuttering, but properly supportive of 24P or not.. you'll still get smoother results with Smooth/Fluid Motion at the expense of clarity.. But you know that already.

but smooth motion doesn't work this way you are not getting 24 frames plus 36 blended frames. smooth motions tries to blend as little frames as possible.

a screen is usually using 120 hz to display 24p so what's this about?

if your screen has a properly working 23p mode i don't see a reason why smooth motion could be better it could be at best as good as native 23p.

that's pretty important so ignore the 3:2 judder part.

but why needs madVR work on this?

[zvans18]

does switching work for 1440p displays/something wrong on my end or is it not implemented yet?

http://i.imgur.com/JvgDRem.png

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by huhn

but smooth motion doesn't work this way you are not getting 24 frames plus 36 blended frames. smooth motions tries to blend as little frames as possible.

Of course, that's why I used the word duplicated too.

Originally Posted by huhn

a screen is usually using 120 hz to display 24p so what's this about?

Not always. For example my plasma is noticeably running at a lower frequency. I can see the refresh difference between 24Hz and 60Hz even when Motion interpolation is enabled which I don't understand..

Regardless, it's still only 24 frames being displayed regardless of the display frequency which isn't enough to replicate truly natural smooth motion. Panning and scrolling will always be a stutter fest using only 24 fps.

Originally Posted by huhn

but why needs madVR work on this?

Because I found MPDN presents 3:2 pulldown better. Madshi acknowledged it needs work, it's just not high priority.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by zvans18

does switching work for 1440p displays/something wrong on my end or is it not implemented yet?

http://i.imgur.com/JvgDRem.png

yes a clear bug/limitation.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Not always. For example my plasma is noticeably running at a lower frequency. I can see the refresh difference between 24Hz and 60Hz even when Motion interpolation is enabled which I don't understand..

Regardless, it's still only 24 frames being displayed regardless of the display frequency which isn't enough to replicate truly natural smooth motion. Panning and scrolling will always be a stutter fest using only 24 fps.

that's simply a not properly working 23/24p mode.

older plasma do this at 48 hz pure flicker party or it may doing it at 60 hz.

newer ones (which are pretty old now) have an option to switch to 96 hz for this. and oly the expensive ones.

Panasonic and Samsung are pretty bad at this 23p games...

i mean Panasonic was able to create a 120 hz TV with 3:2 judder at 23/24p with my CX700. i'm pretty much out of word here...

Because I found MPDN presents 3:2 pulldown better. Madshi acknowledged it needs work, it's just not high priority.

ahh that yeah madVR is pretty bad at repeating or dropping frames to match a refresh rate.

but some people use 60 hz without smoothmotion for some reasons...

[Clammerz]

Originally Posted by zvans18

does switching work for 1440p displays/something wrong on my end or is it not implemented yet?

http://i.imgur.com/JvgDRem.png

You need to specify

2560x1440pXXX

so in your case it would be:

2560x1440p144, 2560x1440p120, 2560x1440p100

(unless you have a different pixel width display)

[arrgh]

Originally Posted by arrgh

I have read the thread on configuring madVR compiled by Warner306, which was very informative.

I have not the newest Hardware :
Win 8.1x64 on core 2 duo 6600 @2400 GHz and DDR800 Memory.

Still, PowerDVD13 and StereoscopicPlayer are able to playback 3D-MVC Content without Problems (iso or mkv respectivly).

On the other hand, when I use MPC-BEx64 (with madVR from Shark007) and his advanced codec pack, i get good playback for standard bluray content, but extrem stuttering and hundreds of droped frames if playing the same 3d content PowerDVD or StereoscopicPalyer managed without Problems on the same machine...

I have played around with the madVR and LAV Settings for some time. But without success.

Therefore my question is
- what should the basic settings be for playback of 1080p23 content (2D/3D) as long as the quality is comparable to PowerDVD
- what are the chances to get a "core madVR" which would simply provide the 3d-playback to MPC-BE without to many "fancy" picture improvements (again, I would call it already a day, if it would be in the range of PoverDVD13, which does run on my System)...

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by huhn

what GPU are you using?

and can you make a screen of the OSD when a 2D file s running (control+j)?

sorry, forgot : Raedon HD 6570

screenshot enclosed;
what would be also nice, is to have in the LAV Audio Decoder settings an option to convert in real time aac to ac3 (i know that's the wrong thread)...
MPC-BE internal codec allows for this; I have everything in aac...but my AV-Receiver is not able to process aac, so I convert it on the fly to ac3;
therefore I use LAV splitter, LAV Video Decoder and internal MPC-BE Audio Decoder (the screenshot is done with this setup);

to preempt questions to this mixed setup : also when I was using also the LAV Audio Decoder, the jerking was the same....so, it is not caused by the Decoder-mix
if I don't do this, I get Audio as 5Ch-Stereo...

Thanks

[zvans18]

Originally Posted by Clammerz

You need to specify

2560x1440pXXX

so in your case it would be:

2560x1440p144, 2560x1440p120, 2560x1440p100

(unless you have a different pixel width display)

thanks, that did it. i didn't think i had to since just '1080pxx' works on my other screens

now to get switching to actually work again (it breaks and then fixes repeatedly as i use LAV and MPC-BE nightlies from time to time)